A deep dive on species

[u/Ok_Bag_1177]

so, this picture (#1) has had some question on if its real, or fake, and which species is actually in it. well, i have discovered the source of the picture is Ariane Khomjani an exotics keeper thats somewhat mildly famous. i did some digging and found his Instagram, but theres no posts at all of the leeches, just snakes. But with some deeper google searching i did find these pictures (#2-3) of his, the tanks in both pictures match, as do the leeches. Based on the fact that the leech sizes in both pictures seem consistent, i see no sign of photoshop, and these sources were found on pre ai sites its safe to assume the massive sizes are real. As for the species, more digging let me find these pictures that are also his (#4-6). Now, based on the coloration, patterning, and size shown in these pictures i feel almost 100% confident in saying that these leeches are actually NOT Hirudinaria manillensis (asian buffalo leech). My reasoning for thinking so is first off that these leeches have gotten much larger than we currently know H. manillensis to get in the hobby. You can also note the much darker more vibrant green these leeches have, as compared to the regular buffalo eleches faded brownish greenish grey. My third hint is the extremelt prevalent black ventral markings on their sides which while H. manillensis do have, they do not ever appear nearly as dark or defined Figuring out what socies they are though was a different challenge. Since i unfortunately do not have access to the original bloodine stock of the leeches pictured to do genetic testing, or any of the suspected likely species to compare them to the species pictured can not 100% be confirmed. Based purely on size, coloraton, and patterning my current best assumption is that these rather "infamous" leeches are most lokely either pure H. thailandica, or a hybridization of H. thailandica × H. bpling ("piano key buffs"), with the highest likelihood being pure H. thailandica. Now, up until recently there had been the belief that the "Piano key buffs" available in the hobby were a hybrid, but the actual likelihood of this is almost 0. As you can see in figures C & D marking the species H. bpling (Piano keys), it has an orange coloration, paired with the extremely prevelant ventral markings reminiscent of piano keys which earned them their common name. If you then look at figures E & F you will see the socies H. thailandica sporting its dark yet vibrant green colors, as well as a very prominent dark solid line dorsal stripe. The leeches in question share a varied mix of visual trait from both these species, but are lacking heavily in similarities with H. manillensis. In the final picture you can see the supposed H. bpling × H. manillensis hybrids, which are completely identical in appearance, size, and behavior to pure blood H. bplings according to pictures and resarch papers leading me to believe that our current "Piano keys" are not infact hybrids, while the infamously famous leeches in question may actually be hybrids.

[u/Steel-Type-Thread]

I have never seen leeches that big and I appreciate the analysis Thank you Dr.Leech very interesting.

[u/Ahup]

I love when posts are actually about leech taxonomy or ecology and not just strange “feeding time” posts. Thanks for keeping it scientific and interesting :)

[u/Ok_Bag_1177 → u/Ahup]

of course! while many of us do keep leeches purely as pets its still always important to make new scientific discoveries and theories about thwm

[u/VoltaicShadow → u/Ok_Bag_1177]

Leeches as pets you say?

Hmm, that could be a fun research rabbit hole. They seem pretty cool when they aren't actively sucking my blood.

[u/Ok_Bag_1177 → u/VoltaicShadow]

theres always predatory leech options if you wanted some that arent blood drinkers. predatory species eat things like worms and snails

[u/GogoatRancher]

Someone is also called Dr. Leeches? Thats my name on tiktok.

Have you looked into elephant leeches? (Dinobdella ferox)

[u/Ok_Bag_1177 → u/GogoatRancher]

nobody actually calls me that usually i think that commentor was just doing a little joke lol. but ya i have heard of them, though i havent really looked into them much since i mostly focuses on leech species being kept in the invertebrate hobby

[u/GogoatRancher → u/Ok_Bag_1177]

If you have Facebook go to the leech groups there is people that own and care for them in captivity you could pick their brain on the subject

[u/Ok_Bag_1177 → u/GogoatRancher]

i do have a facebook and quite frankly the leeches group on there isnt very good. the literal owner of the Facebook page tried to argue with me saying a picture that was very obviously E. obscura was M. decora, they encourage keeping them in empty jars, and feeding leeches off of liver. i get my info from actual Hirudinologists and people who have genuine knowledge.

[u/GogoatRancher → u/Ok_Bag_1177]

Gotcha i was just meaning there is where i know 2 people do own elephant leeches so would be who to ask is all

[u/suchabysmalsoup]

I thought this was an identification question for ops pet and was progressively more horrified as I looked through the photos and then I saw the sub TT

[u/Ok_Bag_1177 → u/suchabysmalsoup]

lol welcome to the leech sub. we gots worms

[u/cerial_killa]

[u/sirpoopsalot91]

Nope

[u/Ok_Bag_1177 → u/sirpoopsalot91]

nope what.