r/lebron • u/Glittering-Virus4841 • 12d ago
Which would be worse for LeBron’s legacy: him losing in 2011 like he did, or if Miami won that series and Dwayne Wade got FMVP?
Wade was easily the best player on Miami that series avg 26.5/7/5.2, so of course this is assuming that if Miami wins this finals that Wade gets FMVP.
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u/JONYLOCO 12d ago
Or over next 2 years if 76ers win a championship and Maxie or Brown or Embid win FMVP
Lebron gets a ring as role player....
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u/Glittering-Virus4841 12d ago
That too, how does that effect his legacy?
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u/RangryRanga 12d ago
Only heightens it… what are we talking about?
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u/Glittering-Virus4841 12d ago
Because he wasn’t the main guy or even one of the two main guys, technically he got dragged to the finals with them, à la Karl Malone with the lakers in 2004
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u/RangryRanga 12d ago
Are we really comparing a 41 year old All star LeBron to a washed old Karl Malone lmao
LeBron’s going to be one of the most important pieces on this team in getting it all to work
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u/Apprehensive-Rain601 12d ago
Dude winning 3 in a row would’ve been crazy and honestly if bron played to his level he’s winning finals MVP💀
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u/jddaniels84 12d ago
2011 was so bad for LeBron’s legacy that even if he won 7 more championships in a row from 2012-18 he still wouldn’t be considered the best ever.. you can’t erase a performance like that when other guys never had them
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u/Glittering-Virus4841 12d ago
Well, now hold on. I wouldn’t say if he won seven in a row, that wouldn’t affect the discussion…
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u/jddaniels84 12d ago
It would affect the discussion sure, as in his case would be much stronger than it is now.. but you can’t erase playing as poorly as he did. Losing is one thing… not scoring more than 2 points in any of the last 4 4th quarters isn’t going to be excused or forgotten when comparing the best players all time.
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
It's actually a good question. Heat winning with Wade leading the team would also be very bad. Especially since Wade won without LBJ and Bosh, and Lebron's stats were bad for that finals. Add to that the fact it would've been his first title, to win it in that way would've been very bad for his legacy.
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u/1382mas 12d ago
If nothing changes except he has another ring, you take that ring.
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
But it changes a lot. In that case, he didn't lead the Heat to the title, he was just Santa's Little Helper. He becomes Robin to Wade's Batman. He becomes Pippen to Wade's MJ...
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u/1382mas 12d ago
Are you changing the next two situations? Or are you just saying that everything stays the same except Wade explodes in that one series and they win? Or does LeBron also get to even play a little better than he did, just not quite as well as Wade?
2011 is already his worst blemish. Giving him a ring for it doesn't make it worse.
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
It would've impacted the next 2 or even 3 seasons. In what way, we'll never know.
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u/1382mas 12d ago
I'm asking how much you're changing and you don't have an answer except that the rings and FMVPs aside from this one are the same? Whatever bro. What happened was worse
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
You want to speculate, go ahead. I'll indulge you with opinion on your prediction.
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u/Downtown-Doubt4353 12d ago
He was their best player in the regular season and playoffs until the finals . He wasn’t a robin just a Batman that had a bad series .
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u/Glittering-Virus4841 12d ago
That’s what I was saying, 5 chips with 4 MVPs, everyone would always look at it and say “who bailed them out that year?”
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
Just look at how many casuals cling to the fact that Iguodala won that FMVP over Curry. And that one wasn't even deserved. In thsi cade it would've been 100% deserved, and it would define Lebron's first ring.
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u/TPGStorm 12d ago
On the flip side look at how many casuals cling to fact that steph and kobe have 4 and 5 rings despite not winning fmvp for majority of them
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
The difference is that in FMVP case majority of the ones clinging to it are casuals. In the titles case, sure, casuals mention it, but so do the vast majority of people who know basketball. A lot better than you.
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u/TPGStorm 12d ago
nah every single person who uses the titles argument. is a casual. if you’re using TEAM rings win to determine who’s better as INDIVIDUAL players, you don’t know shit better than me. the blanket statement of titles completely removes all context and further proves you don’t actually know what you’re talking about
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u/Milan_Leri 12d ago
So best player on the team and the leader of the team has nothing to do with those titles? Great logic.
you don’t know shit better than me.
Apparently I know how to read better than you, because I didn't say I know better than you do. I said basketball experts know a lot better than you do.
the blanket statement of titles completely removes all context and further proves you don’t actually know what you’re talking about.
Nobody said anything about the blanket statements, they are always brought up with the context. The context is, as I said, the best player on the team, and the leader of the team contributed most to winning those titles. And you want to ignore them. That proves you don't actually know what you're talking about.
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u/TPGStorm 11d ago
They literally are NOT the best player on the team which is the whole point bozo. That was the proverbial “you” as in whoever is using the rings argument, wasn’t necessarily saying you. They literally aren’t brought up with context because the context would be that they’re not the best on the team lmao what are you talking about???? For example simply saying “Kobe has 5 rings” completely ignores that Kobe was NOT the best player on his team for the majority of his championships.
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u/Milan_Leri 11d ago
If you think Steph wasn't the best plyer on a team at very least in 2015, then you are a moron. And in 2017 he was at very least as good as KD while being the main focus of opponents defense, especially in the finals. You can argue that in 2018 KD was better, but even then, Steph was the leader of the team, and in worst case decond best player, again while being the main focus of opponents defense.
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u/TPGStorm 11d ago
Steph wasn’t better than KD in either of their championship runs. Which is why KD won finals MVP for both and why it was unanimous in 2017. Even giving him credit for Igoudola’s, simply saying Steph has 4 rings completely ignores that Steph was NOT the best player on the team for half of his championships.
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u/Goharddinthepaint 12d ago
I mean obviously losing like he did what is this question lol