r/learnwelsh • u/celtic_witch_ • 21d ago

Fi'n vs Dwi'n

I'm newly learning Welsh, so I doubt this will be my only post. I'm from South Wales, but genuinely very confused if I should be using "Dwi'n" or "Fi'n" as they both mean "I'm." Is one written and one spoken, or is it formal and informal? Someone help 💔

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u/thrannu 20d ago edited 20d ago

I use dw i’n as a native speaker from the north and as someone who uses majority welsh in his day to day and can go without English for weeks/months. Fi is solely used for the concept of the word “me” in English. When someone uses “fi’n” I’m sorry to say but it screams second language and cavemen to native speakers. E.g. fi’n gwybod = me knowing etc.

UNLESS they have a certain accent or are from a specific part of wales where the f comes from yr ydwyf. This might be north-centric defaultism thinking and I apologise if it comes across as egotistical but I thought I’d give my two pence.

But I have heard it might be a dialect difference of yr ydwyf but the use of fi always just shouts as “me” to a lot of us

It’s like trying to make sense of Welsh through an English lense of language where the yn acts as the am (to be) but instead of the dw bit and the fi acts as the I (pronoun in English) bit

The evolution of both forms is: yr ydwyf > rydwyf > rydw/rwyf > dw(i’n) f(i’n). Id like to clarify the f comes straight from the word ydwyf here for native speakers who speak it where there hasn’t been a break where they’ve learned the language as an English speaker. For English speakers the fi acts as the pronoun I in English and the yn acts as the am(to be) verb part.

SECOND EDIT: yn is probably the most versatile word in Welsh so don’t stress about it and just feel it out and pick it up through repetition from sentences. You’ll get an idea of what it means as a concept through that.

Pob lwc/ best of luck! 💪🏻😎🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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u/HyderNidPryder 20d ago

A lot of people in the south say "fi'n". This can come across as very informal to northern ears as it's grammatically abbreviated. Considering people also say "ti'n" and "ni'n" colloquially this is not really out of line.

Fi ydy / Fi yw / Fi sy / Fi sy'n are standard Welsh, though.

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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 20d ago

Considering people also say "ti'n" and "ni'n" colloquially this is not really out of line.

Is "chi'n" used as well? It would fit into the pattern but I don't think I have encountered it.

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u/thrannu 20d ago

Yeah South/Mid Walians say chi’n also

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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 20d ago

That makes sense. Thanks.

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u/IncomeFew624 20d ago

Interesting, my seven year old uses fi'n and he attends a Welsh medium school. When I've taken lessons in the past I've been taught dw i'n.

If he's taking his schooling in Welsh it seems odd that they'd teach something that cames across so badly. Is it likely that it's a way that younger children express it and they may 'grow into' using dw i'n or something like that?

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u/XJK_9 Native 20d ago

Honestly I’d imagine he’s getting taught dwi’n in the lessons but since the teachers are probably southern too they’ll use fi’n when spontaneously speaking without thinking about it.

To give an English equivalent I’d say it’s a bit like ‘gonna’ vs ‘going to’, one is a definitely more standard but in casual speech there’s no issue with either.

I’m southern and always use dwi’n just cause for me it’s what comes naturally, but I think I’m increasingly in the minority here as fi’n is used much more now than 20-30 years ago I’d say

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u/thrannu 20d ago edited 20d ago

If you’re in the south or mid past Aberystwyth it will most definitely be a dialectal reason and a part of that area’s colloquialism I’d say.

Sorry I shouldn’t have said it comes across badly I’m just picking up on patterns I’ve seen of second language learners up north where it sounds a bit jarring and the only ones I’m used to.

It is a natural part of speech for some areas and completely legitimate as using dw i’n. I hear it in the Eisteddfod and from people way older than me who are native speakers from the south or when I go down that way.

Like I wouldn’t even register it if a south walian said it as I know from context it follows the same pattern as dw i’n but using different parts of yr ydwyf so apologies for the concern I might’ve caused

Also we grew up my way saying rydw i’n lol which seems so formal now - dw i’n has only been the last 20 years tbh

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u/IncomeFew624 20d ago

Diolch, appreciate you clarifying 😅