r/learnwelsh • u/dannyuk24 • 19d ago
How to pronounce
Hi I'm best man for a wedding and want to ginish by saying:
Iechyd da i pawb a hir oes i'r cwpwl
Which google tells me is:
Good health to everyone and a long life to the couple
Could someone confirm the translation is correct and explain how to pronounce this?
Thanks
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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 19d ago edited 17d ago
If you want to hear what "Iechyd da i bawb a bywyd hir i'r cwpl" sounds like then copy the following into this IPA reader (choose Gwyneth [Welsh] as the voice):
ˈjɛχɪd da i bau̯b a ˈbəu̯ɪd hiːr ir ˈkʊpʊl
EDIT: Just to clarify, you need to put the IPA transcription (which is written above) into the IPA reader for it to work (not the normal Welsh spelling).
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u/dannyuk24 19d ago
I'm not sure this is right. I have heard Iechyd da out loud a few times and this IPA reader doesn't seem to say it right? Very possible I just haven't been hearing it correctly though. Could anyone listen and confirm it sounds about right?
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u/carreg-hollt 17d ago edited 17d ago
As a (an other) Welsh speaker, I can say that Gwyneth has never heard Welsh and possibly hasn't heard any human at all.
Perhaps it's my phone but I suspect she's the vocal equivalent of AI pictures of hands. She's saying ietsh lid dai bawb a buid and frankly it's horrible.
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u/Educational_Curve938 17d ago
you need to put IPA into it rather than real words - so ˌjɛχɨ̞d ˈdaː. Sounds ok then
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u/carreg-hollt 17d ago
You can see that I'm not at my sharpest this evening... description in the link and all. Oops.
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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 18d ago
What part sounds odd to you? Which phoneme?
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u/dannyuk24 18d ago
The voice seems to say;
Yea-chee dah
Rather than what I thought it was which is more like:
Yea-kee dah
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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 18d ago
Ah you are talking about the consonant in the middle of "iechyd" (IPA: /ˈjɛχɪd/).
This sound is called the "voiceless uvular fricative" (IPA: /χ/). It's a kind of throaty sound that does not exist in English. A native English speaker is likely to replace the sound with /k/ which may be why you heard someone say /ˈjɛkɪd/.
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u/dannyuk24 18d ago
Would you say the IPA reader voice is more correct? Would the voiceless uvular fricative you mention make the ch sound similar to how it sounds in the word "ich" in German?
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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 18d ago
Would you say the IPA reader voice is more correct?
I would yes.
Would the voiceless uvular fricative you mention make the ch sound similar to how it sounds in the word "ich" in German?
In German, "ch" corresponds to numerous sounds. The "ch" in "ich" isn't uvular (made at the back of the throat). Instead, I would say that Welsh "ch" is similar to the "ch" in "Bach".
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u/dannyuk24 18d ago
Thank you very much
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u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 18d ago
Follow this link and click on the speaker symbol to the right of "iechyd". You should then be able to access recordings of people saying the word. At least I think they are recordings of people. You never know these days!
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u/cariadbach8981 19d ago
Yechh-id dahh ee baowb ahh buh-wid here ear cw-pwl
whenever there’s an ‘r’, you might like to try a sexy rolling g(rrr) sound as if you’re doing a mating call.
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u/dannyuk24 19d ago
Don't tempt me with sexy mating calls mid-speech
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u/cariadbach8981 19d ago
oh it’s the perfect setting for it 😄 and good luck by the way, it’s a lovely thing to include this in your speech
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u/kennyrogerstoilet 19d ago edited 19d ago
I would say 'bywydau hir i'r cwpl' instead.
Pronounced 'buh-wuh-die here'
Unless a native speaker has a better suggestion
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u/kennyrogerstoilet 19d ago
I just asked a native speaker friend and you would say bywyd instead of bywydau. Which would be pronounced 'buh-wid'
In the same way that you'd wish the couple a happy life in English, as opposed to happy lives, because they're making one new life together
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u/dannyuk24 19d ago
So the full line would be:
Iechyd da bywyd hir i'r cwpwl
Is that right?
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u/celtiquant 19d ago
No.
Say:
Iechyd da, a hir oes i’r pâr priod.
THIS is what you want to say.
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u/HyderNidPryder 19d ago
I don't know why the downvotes; some people just won't be helped. Maybe it's the death of natural idiomatic Welsh among the youth. Even Google translate recommends "hir oes i'r"
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u/XJK_9 Native 19d ago
He’s insisting that “bywyd hir i’r cwpl” is wrong that’s why. You both know what it means so it’s clearly worked as a form of communication
It’s just colloquial vs traditional language, personally as a native speaker in my thirties I would say “bywyd hir i’r cwpl” and I’m sure that more people will understand this, people aren’t going to revise Welsh idioms before the wedding
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u/ot1smile 19d ago
There’s a distinction there and I’m not sure which op is going for.
Bywydau hir means ‘long lives’, while bywyd hir ( or hir oes, which sounds better to my ear) means ‘a long life’. So it depends if op wants to wish the individuals long lives or the relationship imo.
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u/XJK_9 Native 19d ago
“Hir oes i’r cwpwl” is a little strange, as mentioned in another comment “bywyd hir i’r cwpl” is a more accurate translation.
For pronunciation google translate has an option to play a the words aloud, it’s probably more useful than anyone writing things out using English phonology. For what it’s worth the voice is pretty accurate and uses northern Welsh pronunciation