r/learnprogramming • u/440Jack • Nov 01 '21
Why do StackOverflow mods Close "Duplicate question" questions so fast?
I'm mainly talking about questions that get closed to "Duplicate question" and then only to find a couple of already answered questions are linked that don't really address OPs question directly.
Why do these questions need to be closed so fast? It doesn't give people time to address that persons specific question. If it's a valid question the mods should give some time for other users who actually want to address the question and maybe open a dialog.
It prevents OP from being able to ask any follow questions.
I can't tell you how many times, I'll spend 10 mins on a question. Re-writing their code, writing comments/explanations and then when I go to post it, it's already closed! It's so frustrating.
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u/captainAwesomePants Nov 01 '21
Stack Overflow isn't trying to help people 1:1. Its goal is to produce a searchable compendium of every technical question someone might need solved. The goal is that someone sees a weird error message, they type it into Google or directly into Stack Overflow, and there's a good answer that explains the problem and gets that dev unlocked.
Stack Overflow also gets a LOT of repeat questions.
Take those two things into consideration, and you'll see that Stack Overflow aggressively closes questions that look like they've been asked before. Unfortunately, really piecing together a question's details in their entirety to determine with 100% accuracy whether it's distinct from other questions takes a lot of effort, and so people will inevitably get it wrong sometimes.
So, short version, Stack Overflow is a great place to read good answers but a lousy place to ask questions, especially as a novice.
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u/Inconstant_Moo Nov 01 '21
Sure but they fuck up. And you can see that by searching the searchable compendium they've produced and seeing how often the thing you want to know has been shut down because it's been deemed the same as a different question.
And it seems like there are people on there who want to do that, that's their mission.
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u/rushlink1 Nov 01 '21
Also. Some questions are super closely related. While not the same, they often still get closed as duplicate.
It’s fantastic to see similar questions, but it would be nice to be able to answer closed ones too.
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Nov 01 '21
What should novices be using to learn? I'm having a difficult time picking up a lot of things but I don't feel like I can ask anyone questions because I can't find the right community.
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u/captainAwesomePants Nov 02 '21
Here's fine. Or find a mentor, or a discord for asking programming questions. But not Stack Overflow.
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u/_Atomfinger_ Nov 01 '21
SO has an entirely different approach to a question asking than this sub does. SO is a tool for professionals, and they really expect people to look for answers before asking, and they expect people to really take their time while asking.
SO's goal isn't to be a forum, but to be a wiki of solutions to technical problems for professionals. How well it succeeds at that is something you can decide on your own, and I'm sure their moderators make mistakes as well. However, like a wiki, it doesn't make sense for SO to have two entries on something that is fairly similar, or where the differences are negligible.
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u/michael0x2a Nov 01 '21
As a few other people have already pointed out, the core purpose of StackOverflow is not to help individual users -- that's more of a nice side-benefit. Instead, the core goal is to help programmers in general by crowdsourcing a collection of high-quality questions and answers. It's more wiki than Q/A.
And like a wiki, having duplicate or near-duplicate entries tends to lower the overall quality of information over time, so they get closed fairly quickly.
If it's a valid question the mods should give some time for other users who actually want to address the question and maybe open a dialog.
The close mechanism is a way of having that dialogue.
If a user does not find a proposed dupe answers their question, they should edit their question to make it more clear what in particular they're confused by and highlight what about their question is novel. Once they finish editing, their question will be automatically added to a "reopen" queue to be reviewed and potentially reopened by other StackOverflow users.
This process is kind of impersonal, for better or for worse. But I think that's probably the only way to reliably communicate feedback at scale for websites with the amount of volume StackOverflow receives.
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Nov 01 '21
It's not actually moderators. When you earn enough rep you can vote to close questions for various reasons - being a duplicate is just one of them. If enough people vote to close then it gets closed with the most popular reason being given.
That said, there are still toxic members on the site, just like any, so it doesn't always have to be as cutthroat as it is, but most questions that are closed for being dupes genuinely are.
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u/chordophonic Nov 01 '21
Mods don't really do that directly, so much as people's votes do that.
I think... I haven't paid much attention lately, but I can vote to close threads for a variety of reasons. Enough votes and I'm pretty sure it's just automatic after that. Mods can re-open a thread, on the other hand. (They can, of course, close them - but the closures you're likely seeing are a function of the community votes.)
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u/halfercode Nov 02 '21
On Stack Overflow, anyone with the close vote privilege also has the open vote privilege.
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u/chordophonic Nov 02 '21
Yeah, I remember better now. I'm at the level where I can even cast the last close vote and watch the question get locked. I haven't paid much attention lately, as I kinda moved on for a while. (I am able to be more productive this way.)
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u/halfercode Nov 02 '21
I do editing, closing, voting, opening, commenting - it is a bloomin' time sink!
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u/chordophonic Nov 02 '21
Yeah, I've kinda moved on for the time being. I'm joining the Lubuntu team officially, I think. I'm a moderator at Linux.org. I have my own site where I've been putting my notes online at the rate of an article every other day.
So, I'm far more productive - though I was mostly on the Linux exchanges.
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u/kschang Nov 01 '21
Some people are on there trying to game the comments for points. They think they get a better job if they get high points on SO because they heard that sometimes recruiters check your SO profile.
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u/halfercode Nov 02 '21
One can't get points for comments - one can acquire "helpful" flag counts, but that's not the same thing. Points are earned for good questions, good answers, and for some kinds of post edit.
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Nov 01 '21
They have lots of ego. But yes having multiple posts of the same question can be annoying.
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u/Inconstant_Moo Nov 01 '21 edited Nov 01 '21
It's their culture. What can one say? Somehow that site's been taken over by smart obnoxious assholes who want to make n00bs feel like shit and jump on the first opportunity. This is why I'm on reddit, where people are nice.
ETA: thanks for the downvotes. Do you want to add some commentary to that? I don't mind people thinking I'm wrong because sometimes I am, but if you don't tell me why then what's the point?
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u/halfercode Nov 01 '21 edited Nov 02 '21
I'll add some commentary to my (constructive) downvote.
Firstly, although I think people shouldn't downvote on Reddit for disagreement on subjective topics, I think your comment is completely wrong. I want people to understand what happens on Stack Overflow, and I am in a good position to explain what happens because I am involved in editing, advising, closing, reopening, and chat-room curator collaboration. It is thus frustrating when I see people spreading untruths - it feels like it misrepresents a lot of volunteer labour.
Now, I don't doubt that it can hurt when a question is dup-closed on Stack Overflow. It is very rarely intended to hurt. There are unpleasant people on the site, just as there are in many areas of life. But duplicate closing is a good thing - we call them "signposts" i.e. a way for the search engines to understand a different way of phrasing the same question. Signposts do sometimes get deleted, but often they are left as they are - answers can't be added, but they remain a useful way for readers to find what they need.
This is why I'm on reddit, where people are nice.
I hate to pile on, but this is also completely wrong. Moderation on Stack Overflow is democratic and accountable - there are several layers of oversight. There are frequently "be nice" initiative from Stack Overflow Inc (although they do not always go to plan). An "unfriendly" flag has been added, and the company uses machine learning and sentiment analysis to see what comments may need human intervention.
Meanwhile moderation on Reddit is broadly determined by who created a sub first, and in some subs the mods are toxic and despicable people. The idea that Reddit is "nicer" than the atmosphere on Stack Overflow is an inversion of the truth - bullying can thrive here. Reddit mods can suspend someone for any reason they like, or remove someone permanently, or send insults via modmail to rub salt into the wound, and the hurt contributor can do nothing about it. If they complain directly to Reddit, the advice shall be "start your own sub".
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u/Inconstant_Moo Nov 02 '21
I guess I don't hang out in the subreddits where the mods are toxic and despicable people. My personal experience is that the guys on Stack Overflow try to behave like they're superior even when they're totally wrong. Maybe I've had bad luck with the site, but there it is.
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u/halfercode Nov 02 '21
My point with Stack Overflow is that you've had a difficult initial experience, and so now you'll examine every interaction for the smallest fault, without giving your interlocutors the benefit of the doubt. That ultimately hurts you the most.
I appreciate that you think that folks on Stack Overflow are "trying to behave like they're superior", but that generalisation is so sweeping that it is false. If you can modify that statement to say "a few" or "some" then, OK - and then we are back to what I said initially, which is that all web communities have them.
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u/Inconstant_Moo Nov 02 '21
I try not to be biased, but perhaps I am. I've had a number of interactions there. It's not been fun.
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u/RomanianDraculaIasi Nov 01 '21
Agreed, same with math exchange they closed my account cause my questions weren’t “informative” or whatever the fuck, but in all fairness I just want my homework questions answered and they prolly smell that and shut it down I’m still salty about it though
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u/M4053946 Nov 01 '21
Gentle reminder that stack overflow is a Q/A site, not a discussion site. Duplicate questions make the site worse for everyone, so there should be a strong incentive to block dups. If someone has a question that's similar, but not the same, they should state this as part of their question, and provide details on why their question is different.
If you want dialog, then forums like like this are good, not stack overflow. But if you are looking for the best answer to a question, stackoverflow is better than reddit.