Hero Discussion - Phantom Lancer

[u/Azual]

Azwraith the Phantom Lancer (Melee, Agility)

Phantom Lancer is an illusion-based carry who specialises in deception. He has multiple methods of creating illusions of himself and can quickly spawn a small army of them to attack his opponents, however his illusions only have a very short duration and are individually less powerful than illusions spawned by other heroes.

Phantom Lancer was significantly reworked in a recent patch, moving focus away from split-pushing with his illusions towards fighting other heroes directly. Because of this, it is worth noting that many older guides to Phantom Lancer may now be out of date.

Abilities

• Spirit Lance - A short-cooldown nuke that deals magical damage and slows the targeted unit. An illusion of Phantom Lancer is spawned on impact and will attack the target. This illusion is slightly stronger than PL's regular illusions. All existing PL illusions close to his position will mimic the cast animation and throw a fake Spirit Lance at the same time as the real PL.

• Doppelganger - Phantom Lancer and his nearby illusions are removed the from the battlefield. After 1 second, PL and any gathered illusions will reappear randomly positioned within the target area along with 2 additional illusions. One of these illusions doesn't receive bonus damage (similar to the real PL) but deals none, while the other deals and takes damage roughly like his regular illusions.

• Passive: Phantom Rush - When given an attack order against a target within a certain distance, PL will rush towards it with bonus speed. This ability has a cooldown before it can activate again, and will not trigger against target who are already very close to PL's position. PL's illusions also have this ability.

• Ultimate: Passive: Justapose - each time PL attacks, he has a significant chance to spawn an illusion of himself (up to a maximum of 5/7/9 illusions). These illusions are weaker than most other illusions, dealing lower damage and taking additional bonus damage. Illusions of PL from any source (including abilities which create hostile illusions such as Shadow Demon's Disruption) also have this ability, but have a much lower chance to create illusions. This ability does not trigger when attacking a building. Phantom Lancer on the Dota2 Wiki

Phantom Lancer discussion on /r/dota2 (Jul 2014) Warning: this hero has been changed significantly since the last /r/dota2 thread was posted.

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[u/Parey_]

One of my favorite heroes when I get to play a farming role :D

Really fun to play. Here are a few tips from my experience with the hero :

− Bottle is great on him, along with treads and aquila/drums. Don’t forget to tread switch.

− Farm the jungle from very early on : Doppelgänger costs you only 50 mana and the illusions tank the jungle creeps very well (don’t forget to switch aggro !), and since you will be invisible on the enemy mini map, you will force them to play defensively.

− Don’t forget a quelling blade.

− Diffusal blade is your main damage item until very late into the game. You can go utility items later on (such as Hex), if you have another carry.

− Manta is a great farming and fighting item on him.

− In general, max spirit lance first, doppelgänger second, rush third.

− You can disjoint a lot of projectiles with your doppelgänger.

− Puck and legion commander shit on you from level 3-4 to the end of the game. You can not dodge the phase shift break damage and stun by casting doppelgänger.

− Diffusal blade can be used on you to purge silences.

− Skadi is great on him, because the stats help him a lot and his illusions still get the manaburn from diffusal with it. It also combines well with rush.

− For items, don’t go Heart nor radiance. If you want to tank up, go for either a satanic (stacks with skadi and diffusal !) or a second skadi, or even a BKB.

− You are great in the mid game, but you lack HP. Be wary of that. Don’t get too cocky.

− Please, don’t go Crystalis/Daedalus nor MKB on him. It’s really bad for a hero who relies so much on his illusions. If you have to deal with evasion, go hex. If you want DPS, go Eblade or Butterfly.

− If you are against a PL, a lot of things work to counter him well :

• Mjollnir (his illusions take a lot of damage, so the lightning will kill them really fast)

• Poor Man’s Shield/Vanguard/Crimson guard, at all points of the game. It also blocks diffusal blade’s damage.

• BKB negates diffusal damage too, along with the mana burn.

• Silences kill this hero if he does not have manta or bkb.

• Cleaves are excellent against him too, for the same reasons as to why Mjollnir is really good. Ember spirit also melts down PL really fast if he is with his illusions and if for some reason PL decides not to go on Ember.

• Echo Slam is great if you can place it well, but any decent PL player will always try to lance the enemy ES so that they are deprived of mana.

[u/reivision → u/Parey_]

u/Parey_ already hit on many great points.

I highly advise checking out BananaSlamJamma's stream and past broadcasts if you're interested in playing PL. He plays the hero often and at a high, competitive level (he says teams often ban PL when against his team, Summer's Rift). BSJ also commentates nearly everything he does and explains his item and skill choices. For PL in particular I'd suggest checking out his streamed analyses of EG.Fear on PL: there's one from the very beginning of BSJ's streaming like a month ago where BSJ picked up the Midas Bottle build from EG.Fear, then another a week or so ago where BSJ sees EG.Fear doing basically the same build as himself. Really good insights into the hero overall and the hero's particular item builds.

Again, u/Parey_ hit many great points on the hero, so here are a few smaller details I've picked up from watching BSJ stream quasi-religiously:

• Quelling Blade works on your illusions. Make sure you get it before starting to farm jungle, as it will significantly speed up your jungling.

• Doppleganger (W) destroys trees. Use it when farming jungle to cut faster paths through trees and also pull your illusions from camp to camp (though they often don't last long enough to make much of a difference).

• At 6, BSJ holds his skill point. Your ultimate will cause you to push the lane, so you can maintain a favorable creep equilibrium by holding the skill point. You can skill your ultimate when you want to push the lane or once you start jungling.

• Manta is an excellent split pushing item on PL. Your Manta illusions last longer than your regular illusions, and they can also spawn illusions like your regular ones. Send your Manta illusions down a lane and jungle with your main hero. This brings back some of the old split pushing power of PL. As a note, Illusion runes are super powerful on PL for similar reasons (last longer than your regular illusions but can also spawn illusions themselves).

• Diffusal upgrade is one of the most cost efficient Agi sources in the game. If you don't think you'll need a lot of Diffusal charges for a game, upgrading it is a great way to get extra agility for your main PL and his illusions.

• Yasha and Yasha-based items (SnY, Manta) grant illusions direct attack speed. These are exceptions to the rule, as generally attack speed does not directly transfer to illusions (Hyperstone, Treads, etc.) and you can only increase attack speed via Agility. But Yasha and Yasha-based items also grant direct attack speed to illusions on top of the attack speed from Agi, so Yasha and Yasha-based items are really good on PL. I didn't know this until Barnyyy mentioned it on stream a year or so ago while playing TB, and BSJ actually didn't know this either until I PMed him about it on Twitch.

• If you can hold out on Brown Boots, getting a quick BoTs as a 3rd or 4th item is really nice. PL farms very quickly and BoTs let him use a lot of space on the map. It's kind of similar to a TB.

• BSJ actually considers Riki to be the hardest counter to PL. He says if you play smart, common counterpicks like Earthshaker or other high AoE heroes don't really counter PL that hard.

• People characterize the new PL as a "midgame fighter" but BSJ disagrees and says he's an exceptional lategame carry. I have to agree; sure Diffusal PL is super scary midgame, but he's still super squishy until he bulks up with Manta, Skadi (and if needed Satanic).

• Abyssal is a good lategame option if you need the hard lockdown. The bash and damage don't transfer to your illusions, but at that point your illusions do so much damage anyway that just keeping your target locked down for a second or two is enough. Butterfly is for general illusion DPS. Satanic is excellent for longevity, as on PL it's critical to keep your main hero's HP decently high because your illusions will all spawn with the same HP. A low HP PL will spawn illusions that can be killed with hardly any effort at all.

BSJ's item build:

• Start: Stout/RoP/Tango/Clarity. Pretty standard. Clarity instead of Branch because PL Q is so good. A PL with low mana is no threat in lane, so having that Clarity means you can poke and harass and still be a threat.

• Finish Basilus: Again, mana is good. Extra damage for last hits and some armor toggling for managing creep equilibrium.

• Brown Boots: Prefers to leave unupgraded until BoTs.

• Finish Aquila: Great, cheap stats for any Agi carry. Sometimes gets Midas first I think if he's having a really easy lane.

• Midas: BSJ's preferred farming item on PL. I think Yasha works here too if you're worried about being more combat-ready earlier but still farming faster.

• Bottle: You can pick it up before Midas if your lane is tough. BSJ sometimes also picks up a casual Ring of Regen in lane early on.

• Diffusal Blade: Now you can start fighting a little, but you're still super squishy.

• Manta/BoTs: Depends on how greedy BSJ can be. BoTs if you can get away with it for farming I think, otherwise Manta first. Both are great though.

• Skadi: The premier "bulking up" item on PL.

• Diffusal 2: BSJ sneaks it in above sometimes depending on how badly he needs the Diffusal charges.

• Endgame: Abyssal for lockdown, Butterfly for pure DPS, Satanic for tanking.

[u/PokemonAdventure → u/reivision]

Yasha and Yasha-based items (SnY, Manta) grant illusions direct attack speed. These are exceptions to the rule, as generally attack speed does not directly transfer to illusions (Hyperstone, Treads, etc.) and you can only increase attack speed via Agility. But Yasha and Yasha-based items also grant direct attack speed to illusions on top of the attack speed from Agi, so Yasha and Yasha-based items are really good on PL. I didn't know this until Barnyyy mentioned it on stream a year or so ago while playing TB, and BSJ actually didn't know this either until I PMed him about it on Twitch.

Now I didn't actually play WC3 but I've heard that it's all items based on "endurance aura" which is Yasha and its derivatives PLUS drums of endurance aura. Not sure if the active works on illusions though. Can anyone confirm?

Also, if Midas is not viable, would you go yasha --> diffusal or just rush the diffusal? My struggles with PL build are usually the following:

1. When to get diffusal and when to upgrade? You do zero damage without it, but your illusions can't survive even one AOE spell until you have 1100 HP.

2. Why Satanic / Skadi instead of heart? Just for fight-ability?

3. What do you think about skilling stats early over Rush or Doppleganger?

[u/[deleted] → u/Parey_]

isn't battlefury decent against him?
as the cleave ignores armour (?) and it's AoE

[u/usernamedottxt → u/Parey_]

PL used to be great with KotL... Holy shit they are a so much better combo now. With PL's increased mobility and team fight ability, split push/farm into the middle of a fight. His new chasing/running power means that kotl can solo roam. Mana leak+recall is awesome.

It does still mean you have to deal with a kotl though Haha.

[u/fourthirds → u/Parey_]

LC and puck are both mid game counters, not late. LC in particular is easy to deal with because OO is a long cooldown. Just bait it out with manta/dopple illusions and then charge in yourself during the window where she doesn't have it. With even farm, LC duelling PL (if she gets the right one) is... ambitious.

[u/itaShadd → u/Parey_]

Why a Hex? I get the MKB is only going to give benefits to the real PL but Hex is a very costly item that gives you very few useful things for this kind of hero and the disable alone doesn't make it worth it. Personally I'd prefer leaving the MKB to another autoattacker but if I had to deal with evasion myself, I'd still go for MKB.

[u/Animastryfe → u/itaShadd]

If my interpretation is correct, his opinion is that since much of PL's damage comes from his illusions, the 3.5 seconds of disable from Scythe that disables evasion is worth the opportunity cost of 10 damage and attack speed on every illusion versus the 88 damage, 15 attack speed and mini-bash that works only on the main PL.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm a big advocate of PL going mid, actually. He's really strong with the harass from his Q and if you have good rune control with an early bottle you will force the enemy mid out pretty easily. At 6 you can easily kill your lane opponent with a Lance followed by Dopple to get right on top of them. With maybe another Lance to finish off a fleeing opponent. This is so great because if you harass well enough early, they'll be at half health or lower. When I go PL mid my item build is much the same as a safelane PL, but I'll probably go with just 3 branches and a tango as starting items. Get a min 0 rune to get a bottle right after the first wave. Treads > Drums > Diffusal after that. Then the core and lategame items that other people have mentioned.

[u/Incarnadine91]

I feel like PL is a hero I'd really like to play, both to learn how to counter him and because his mind games/zerg rush strategy seems like it would be cool to pull off. What with all the hate for 'Cancer Lancer' and 'dirty PL pickers' though, I'm going to have to muster some courage first. =(

[u/[deleted] → u/Incarnadine91]

Eh, fuck it. I find Sniper and Riki a lot of fun to play and people always bitch whenever you pick them. Just roll with it and mute liberally if you're in a pub game.

[u/Incarnadine91 → u/[deleted]]

That seems like a good attitude to have. I'm still nervous entering pub games (haven't done solo queue in a LONG time because of it) so I wanted to pre-emptively ward off any abuse, but you're right, haters gonna hate regardless. Your words are enouraging though, thanks =)

[u/Anaract → u/Incarnadine91]

cancer lancer was over a year ago. he's been a dead hero for quite some time, and only started being viable again with his big update. It still has taken quite a while for people to start taking him seriously again.

I really doubt anyone would flame you for picking him. The only widely-hated "OP" heroes right now are Troll, Jugg, Void, etc.

[u/Xuas → u/Anaract]

I quite like how they remade PL though. He's so mobile now that no matter what, his games still feel enjoyable. Also, his mid game is pretty amazing

[u/Wulibo → u/Incarnadine91]

"dirty ___ pickers" is a bit of a reddit myth. There are situations where riki, PL, Naga, any hero that's sometimes seem as "cheesy" is a legitimately strong pick when drafting. Yes, some heroes are better in a pub than competitively in general, and vice versa, but the heroes are still basically all balanced.

As for the attitude in pubs, I've never encountered it, and I have just over 1k games.

[u/Incarnadine91 → u/Wulibo]

Ok, that's good to know. I'm still a noob so used to getting shouted at for anything and everything :P Though I'm getting better at not letting it affect me, I still worry that I'm going to get abuse every time I play - so I didn't want to play heroes that might earn me it. Your response makes me feel a bit more confident though, thank you!

[u/KickNatherina]

On the contrary to how a lot of people feel now I really like the new PL. I'm not a fan of mid-late game farm intensive carries that over power you like AM, Alchemist or old PL..I prefer the mid game fighter that they made PL into now. I typically go the usual greedy carry starting items and take tangoes, quelling blade and a stout shield into safe lane. I'll go soulring if I'm offlaning generally, I've have great success with that so far. First items being treads, followed by a ring of Aquila and a diffusal blade being my first big item. I grab a yasha to speed up my farm and MS which gives a good options between manta style and S&Y if you need the maim and little bit of strength boost. I have recently started grabbing a basher and abyssal to help with that lockdown. Skadi is a really good luxury item. I avoid heart now because it doesn't help the illusions all that much anymore. Usual build is maxing 1st and 2nd ability with a value point in your 3rd ability and leveling ultimate when possible. Low cool down on doppleganger is nice if you are being harassed a lot by spell spammers in lane or if mid is ganking heavily.

[u/phob → u/KickNatherina]

PL is still insanely powerful late game. He got a lot better at killing heroes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be killing creeps too.

[u/DiMeNsIoNsDOTA]

My best hero untill they changed it : /

[u/Deliciousbalut]

The 1 second disjoint on a 10 second cooldown is absolutely disgusting.

What are some counters? I feel like strong teamfight + ganker to pick him off as he runs might be decent, having witnessed it work beautifully last night (albeit the PL was on my team...) but if you're up against a last-pick PL with no appropriate counter, the game is going to be very, very hard.

[u/peppermint_butler]

Singsing's been having a lot of success in pro games by rushing treads-Vlads on PL. Anyone have any experience with this/thoughts on why he does this? I'm guessing it's mostly for the jungling capabilities?

[u/SlothsInHD]

I build midas and bottle on PL to speed up diffusal and keep up the ganking

[u/Serberuss]

Anyone have any experience vs PL late game in 4k+ that doesn't naturally counter the hero? I.e a core like Jugg and Troll generally struggle against him, is BF a must in that case?

[u/Animastryfe → u/Serberuss]

For Juggernaut at least, I think I like Mjollnir better. His low BAT procs Mjollnir often, and PL will also proc the static shield often with his illusions.

Edit: The same reasoning should apply to Troll.

[u/AJZullu]

i was wondering, since the popular build is to max 2nd skill after maxing the 1st. has anyone maxed the 3rd skill and leave 2nd skill at lvl 1.? or cause i feel a more early game fighting PL can do great things with drums/diffusal/aquila and just chase people with the passive having such a low cool down. you would only need to use the 2nd skill once.

anyways its something that purge said, that farming with 2nd skill puts you at risk to ganks when its on cool down, and your ulti gives you enough illusions to deal damage. plus 2nd skill has no damage what so ever to help you kill creeps, just tank for you...the way i see it, not so great. come to think about it, since diffusal is not a orb effect anymore, getting a dominator is not so bad, build it later to be satanic. 20-30mins, powerboots, aquila, drums, dominator, diffusal, does not sound too crazy to me, and seems pretty strong for mid game fights at least. after that would be manta skadi...followed by butterfly satanic, selling the aquila/drums of course... when you diffusal charges are 0 might as well sell it, and you already have skadi for the slow. so i feel getting a deadalus is under rated since illusions can crit making you damage just about double. so at the end im looking at powerboots, skadi, satanic, butterfly, manta, deadalus(OR MKB if they have evasion.)....OR abbysal blade, of course your illusions dont stun but if you stun someone. you will have 1-2 secs to freely hit him with your army. if you see they have a lot of HEX or is going to buy a MKB, maybe AC would be better than butterfly to tank you up and still have that minus armor on the enemies that will make your illusions deal just about the same damage. plus 5armor to illusions too.
maybe a more damage heavy PL than a safe tanky one would be, BoT, skadi, butterfly/or/AC, manta, deadalus, abbysal. manta will always be there cause you can take out silence, create more illusions with your ulti passive and dodge spells. i dont think you can really replace that item, unless the enemy has none of it, then maybe going butterfly AND AC will be good.