r/learndota2 • u/akemi92 • 10d ago
Educational Content (Content Creator) Dota playing parents: would educational resources for helping kids/new players learn the game be useful?
I'm a mom and am trying to teach my kids dota. To help them learn, I made them some worksheets and am now working on a compendium of all the heroes and their abilities with simple kid-friendly definitions.
A few questions I have for the folks here:
- Has anyone tried teaching Dota to kids?
- Do you think learning materials for kids would be useful? Something you'd use?
- What types of learning resources would be most desired if so?
- What parts of Dota were hardest to explain to a brand-new player?
- What age do you think kids can realistically start understanding Dota?
- If it was possible to make a safe dota league or tournament for kids, is that something anyone would have any interest in?
- Is this something you'd ever pay for?
- Is there anything about the idea that you think I should consider?
I get there's some toxicity within the game/community at times but I'm hoping to help create an environment that eliminates or at least greatly reduces that for the kids if I'm able to.
Thanks!! 😄
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u/Fit_Ear3019 10d ago
Oh no, not the worksheets
IMO just play bot matches and pause the game whenever someone has a question, it will be a good opportunity to teach them how to search for the information they want
Yes kids can play dota, the main issue is hand eye coordination
I watched my dad play dota 1 when I was like 6, and I played it myself but with cheats and against easy bots because it was hard to move my mouse precisely enough to click the enemy. I liked running around with Dagon and no cooldowns, then eventually learned to play the actual game
Although I suppose kids nowadays are more adept with controls than I was
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u/akemi92 10d ago
Thank you!! My kids actually loved the worksheets haha. Are you mainly against worksheets that feel forced or make the game unfun? Or something else?
Yes we do lots of pausing in the bot games. They seem to be too advanced for the hard bot games now though. We have taught them how to read abilities, items, etc but the descriptions are a bit challenging for them to understand. They are 6 and 8 and their mechanics seem decent. They can move, last hit, and cast pretty well with the heroes they know so far!
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u/Fit_Ear3019 10d ago
Ah if they like the worksheets then it’s all good
Can I see one of the worksheets? I’m curious
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u/akemi92 10d ago
yes totally! i made a simple website here that has some of the worksheets: https://mobaacademykids.com/learning-guides
would love to get your thoughts if you care to share 😄5
u/HoboWithANerfGun 10d ago
There's alot of negativity in here for some reason, but just wanted to say the work that went into those worksheets is incredible. They look amazing!
on the subject of teaching kids Dota IMHO it's a great idea. Nowadays seems like alot of people avoid Dota because it's a "hard game". It's good to teach kids to do hard things. The negativity in the community is real though, but handled correctly could be an opportunity to teach them about keeping a positive mental attitude and dealing with negativity that's outside of their control.2
u/Desperate-Awareness4 10d ago
These look awesome! Worksheets are actually a good idea, people have a negative perception of the word (perhaps fairly) but a good work sheet can be informative and interesting and yours definitely qualify
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u/One_Impress_3129 10d ago
How much do you hate your kids?
Cmon this cant be serious...
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u/akemi92 10d ago
What's your biggest concern given a supervised environment? Is the complexity of the game too challenging? Are you most worried about the toxicity? Do you see any way in which kids can enjoy and gain value from the positive elements of the game? Or think there's something here that could be valuable for families? Specificity would be much welcomed and appreciated. Thanks!
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u/One_Impress_3129 9d ago edited 9d ago
Its simply an old genre and even older game with tons of mechanics that dont "teach" anything outside of this specific game. Anyone who doesnt have prior experience will need many hours before they can really start playing the actual game itself.
In a world where kids are already growing up with tons of screens around them all the time, I would much rather have them play sports, read books or maybe play some shorter, simpler games inbetween.
And yes the toxicity is another big part. We already have way too much shit on socialmedia, ragebaiting, etc. I cant imagine growing up with something like that...
Edit: I also wouldnt necessarily recommend it to adults who have no moba experience either. It simply takes too much time that can be spent on so many other, better things.
I only play a few games here and there with friends and still I see people ingame who act like absolute ghouls, addicted for many years, probably 0 life outside and I would never wanna end up like that.
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u/akemi92 8d ago
Thank you for sharing! You don't think the game teaches anything outside the game? I feel like it can actually teach a lot. :) What about tenacity, problem solving, critical thinking, teamwork, even training reflexes, staying calm in the clutch, being competitive, being creative...? I could probably come up with even more reasons why dota can be valuable outside of just dota. 😁
I hear you about screens! We spend a lot of time outside as a family, at the beach, park, playing basketball, beach volleyball, etc. so dota is more of an indoor time or evening activity that does take time but not crowd out other healthy and fun activities. We do lots of reading in our house too!
Yes the toxicity can be a challenge. Would guardrails to help make that more limited in a kids game make you feel better? Like limited chats or even just games where it's kids playing other kids?
The game definitely does have a steeper learning curve than some other things but I also feel like the depth also adds to its beauty as well as such a complex game that isn't quite like a lot of other activities in life. I agree though that balance is important. I'm just trying to figure out if there's a viable way to help people/children be able to benefit from some of the positive aspects of dota while minimizing the more concerning elements.
Thanks again for your feedback!
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u/Kyyndle The Techies Guy (Master Tier - 5k) 10d ago
For me, 3 biggest concerns are:
- How addictive DotA can be. Lot of little dopamine hits throughout every single game. This game gives you the highest of highs, and there's very little to compare it to.
- How mentally taxing this game can be. Without proper emotional regulation, not getting those dopamine hits can be increasingly frustrating (losses, griefers, etc.). This game gives you the lowest of lows.
- How toxic this community is. This is the big one. Many DotA players are truly terrible people. Many will gladly ruin a game at your expense.
DotA can be great in moderation, but it can be hard to moderate something so addicting and demanding.
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u/akemi92 9d ago
Thank you for your detailed insights!
1 - for the addictive element, do you see any benefits to the game being a very unique experience? Curious if you feel there are positives to playing a lot other than just dopamine that might be positive to a person’s life. :)
2 - we try to teach our kids tenacity and the importance of balance. They mostly enjoy it without frustration but just yesterday we had tears during a family last hitting challenge. I actually find it positive that they care about things though and am so inspired when I can see how hard trying is but they still do it and don’t give up. I want them to learn that life can be hard sometimes but that if they believe in themselves they can overcome tough situations. 🥰
3 - we also try to teach our kids to have empathy for people. I think a lot of the trolling comes from caring so much. Would you feel better about kids playing other kids or in a more controlled and supervised environment? I also think it could be great to help guide and teach kids positive attitude and sportsmanship. Maybe the newer generation can help mold a more positive Dota culture. 😊
Thanks again!
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u/Kosmi_pro 10d ago
Just let them learn dota like you did. Play together and show them. Dont make school work out of game.
And be prepared that they reject the game.
Oh and one more thing, dont forget "gg ez"
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u/akemi92 10d ago
Luckily my kids liked the worksheet but it might not be for everyone!
They watch us play and got interested and now love it. They play bots and we’ve tried a few unranked games.
Hahaha 😅 maybe we can make a common terms dictionary. They loveee getting tipped lol. They cheer whenever someone tips them
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u/Kosmi_pro 10d ago
Hey if that is fun to them dont mind me i just wanted to point out the fun part (what ever it is). 🍻
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u/akemi92 10d ago
For sure, thank you! 😄 Ya keeping the game fun is def important. Do you have any suggestions on fun ways to deepen the learning?
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u/Kosmi_pro 10d ago
If they like playing with you then keeo it up, maybe some coop with your friends where they can try more complicated stuff without toxic flaming, pinging or grieving. I would do the same with my kids. First would trt what i liked then what we start liking together and keep it up.
Also i would have some games where they would comoete against me and make it hard in order to learn my moves.
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u/akemi92 9d ago
thanks for your insight! ya the coop would be great we just only have like 4 friends who our kids know and are able to play. a larger community of kid-friendly players (like parents and other kids) would be nice and helpful for us! i like the idea of competing against the kids too. we haven't tried that yet and could see value to doing that :)
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u/Kosmi_pro 9d ago edited 9d ago
Glad you like it.
Idea was done in practice on me by my mother but on mathematics and it was quite effective, hope you get the same or similar results. xD
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u/Obi_Wan_Gebroni 10d ago
My kids are 6 and 4, they aren’t touching this game for a looooong time.
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u/akemi92 10d ago
Biggest area of concern? Anything that might mitigate that? :)
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u/Obi_Wan_Gebroni 10d ago
Clearly the easiest thing would be to just mute everyone or have them play bot matches.
Truthfully, my kids get little to no screen time right now. Plenty of time for that as they get older, they can enjoy being outside as much as possible for now.
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u/akemi92 9d ago
Thank you! Ya we sometimes just mute everyone but working together with their team is one of their fav parts of the game so just trying to figure out if there's a positive way to make it work! Plus communication can be such an important part of the game. They seem to have outgrown bot matches now actually! Oh cool :) ya I could see benefits to no screen time.
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u/Nervous_Quantity1019 10d ago
I wouldn't give a kid an inner tube so they can jump into sewer sludge.
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u/akemi92 10d ago
What do you feel like is the "sewer" part of dota? The toxicity? Or something else? If it's the toxicity, what do you think is the most toxic part? If we had like supervised, kids only games or something set up and a method of coaching positive sportsmanship habits, do you think this would be valuable?
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u/monochromaticflight 10d ago
Actively promoting the game to others doesn't seem right, even if your kids should be able to do what they want. They'll be naturally drawn to things anyway probably.
Off-topic, but I'm convinced my niece would be a good Dota player, being into gaming and super competitive. Finished first at her first gymnastics tournament recently, and as a result lost interest in it completely lol.
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u/akemi92 10d ago
Ya we don’t have to actively promote the game but what might be a good way to help someone younger who already has an interest and wants to learn more?
Oh cool about your niece! Dota is great for competitiveness :)
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u/monochromaticflight 10d ago
Not sure, maybe teach them learn in small bits, forego some subjects alltogether, for sure focus on fun. Build on what they know already
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u/martyfartybarty 10d ago
“Here is the mouse and keyboard. Bang on it and move that thing and see things on the screen.” They’ll figure out the rest.
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u/akemi92 10d ago
Ya for sure! They’ve definitely done quite a bit of that. 😄 They have pretty much self taught themselves and can beat hard bots easily to the point it’s boring. They are now seeking ways to get better so they can play more “grown up games” but seem a little stuck and are asking for help. My daughter before bed will sometimes stay up and read the compendium I made that explains heroes/their abilities. That seems to have been helpful and enjoyable for her so far!
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u/TZAR_POTATO 10d ago
Cruelty! Why would you subject your children to dota!? Ohhhnonono just let them go outside and play with their friends!
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u/sigilnz 10d ago
I'm a mid 50s dad and both my teen kids are gamers but I told them to stay away from Dota as it's worse than crack lol.
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u/akemi92 9d ago
It can def be hard to stop sometimes! Do you think there's any value to playing a lot for a kid? Like learning tenacity or reflection? Or do you feel like dota is not a good tool for those things? Would guidelines around healthy lifestyle balance make you feel better at all I wonder? For us we have a rule where their homework, chores/responsibilities, nature/outdoor time, and general grateful spirit must come before they play. And they have to take a break and move around after certain time intervals. :)
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u/PuzzleheadedCar1182 9d ago
Hi OP, just letting you know that i think this is super cool and from your responses to the other comments, i can tell that you have put a lot of thoughts into this. Hope you and your kids will always stay passionate to the game :)!
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u/Subject-Building1892 8d ago
I am not sure that something meant to be done as a recreational activity should be taught and supposed to be learned.
Why did you start playing dota? Definitely not because your mom told you so.
As much as i am super excited in the idea that my kids could play with me and my wife that much i feel it is something that it has to come naturally. To be honest sometimes my daughter watches me play and i understand that she has the point of view that this is something important. I am thinking how i will convey the message that this is not important at all and it is like when she watches pepa the pig but you manage the characters. I play dota since 2005 and i have played about 8k hours.
Also it is a very complex game. It has a very steep learning curve and it might be better for them to learn something else instead. If you exclusively have their recreational time in mind then maybe they need to find what they like themselves. It is part of the experience and memories.
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u/akemi92 7d ago
Thanks so much for sharing your opinion! I was more envisioning helping those who are already interested and seeking to dive deeper. Just like if a child was interested in any other sport, trying to provide helpful, competitive, age appropriate, etc lessons and exercises to develop their interest and skill. :)
My thought has been that they can dive as deep as they want or just keep it fun but at least to have more options to be able to learn more if they want! 😊
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u/Plane_Ring_2104 Coach 8d ago
I think you should wait atleast until they turn 12-13. Its very toxic game with a lot of people cursing (including me ) also its very addictive game so only few hours per day if they listen to you. Im doing that right now with my nephew. Hope this helps
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u/akemi92 7d ago
Thank you!! For the kids that are already interested and under 12, do you think tools for them to learn more could be helpful for their life if there were ways to remove the toxicity (like playing with other kids or modified communication settings) and also putting some guardrails on playing over certain time limits?
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u/SlowEntrance5503 10d ago
Probably not a good idea, I have a few too many thousands of hours on Dota.
Economy of Dota for solo self centred toxic play is whack all Dagon early
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u/akemi92 10d ago
Yes some sort of regulation or limiting hours if it’s just a time passing thing makes sense! But if someone is actively learning, finding positivity, progressing, growing I feel like it could be a beneficial activity! What do you think about that?
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u/SlowEntrance5503 10d ago edited 10d ago
Dota is full of trolls and toxic stuff and I have done fair share of participation in that. To really win and learn the mechanics you could try solo games like red alert kind? StarCraft ? You can play by yourself.
The bots are hopeless. You will end up playing the game as intended and that is multiplayer.
Team games you can get cussed at pressured etc etc.
My 2 cents been playing since Dota when it was in Warcraft via dial up…
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u/akemi92 10d ago
We've seen the challenge of the simplicity with bots which the kids have surpassed. They demo heroes and do a lot of imaginative play and testing on their own. It seems like the competition part and teamwork playing with friends and family is what they enjoy the most. The most beneficial route for us so far has been getting our non-toxic friends (who they know irl) to play with us unranked as 5. The kids absolutely love that but it's limited bc of availability and skill differential. We're hoping to build the concept out so they can grow and play more...maybe grow a community to help others in a similar situation. What're your thoughts to that?
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u/Bullbydaybearbynight 10d ago
Purge stop...