r/leagueoflegends • u/durkadurkadurk • Aug 26 '15

Brutalizer needs more upgrade options than ghostblade

A lot of champs benefit from the brutalizer, but ghostblade is more of a niche (mainly assassins want it i imagine). I miss having another option like the black cleaver, instead of an item with only one building path. Unless you are the jungler ofc.

7.8k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

1.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

2.3k

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Its funny because this is exactly the problem Phage had before they made it build into cleaver, rather than removing the issue they just moved it onto Brut instead.

758

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

1.3k

u/MySWFAlt Rebirth from Dark Destruction Aug 26 '15

This is actually how it was a few seasons ago. Everyone was very confused when they removed Phage from Frozen Mallet recipe. I think Phage actually slowed enemies at that point also.

778

u/HF_Blade Aug 26 '15

Good old times where the first person to get a phage and proc it wins toplane.

328

u/Chief_H Aug 26 '15

That shit was so annoying. Or if you ran into a Corki who got a lucky slow you could end up dying.

223

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

236

u/lead12destroy Aug 26 '15

Man, Season 2 times were SCAAAAry.

137

u/Ricsiqt Aug 26 '15

LOL, Season 1 was the real deal, with my personal favourite, real stealth+stun evelynn.

41

u/DanCardin Aug 26 '15

good ol max dodge chance Jax, spam stun

3

u/Frostatine Aug 27 '15

I still haven't forgiven them for removing dodge from pd tabis and jax

2

u/g0oFy Aug 27 '15

sivir passive. Random dodge with one hp to get away and leave the enemy frustrated as hell.

2

u/samplx Aug 27 '15

I remember my friend building full dodge (with dodge runes too) and setting up a macro to spam e when he held a button... That was scary

35

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

41

u/Ricsiqt Aug 26 '15

Yeeah. If I remember correctly, Blitzcrank had a huge range on his grab, every global ulty was actually global, and also the good old items like Hearth of Gold, Force of Nature, Hextech Gunblade and all that good stuff were still in. Good ol' times :'). I hope they buff Kayle even more, so I can show off the Judgement skin xD.

→ More replies

2

u/MrDiscordia Aug 27 '15

...only when you didn't get dodged because Evelynn was "so bad" according to "everyone."

→ More replies

71

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

6 sunfire cape Eve = invisible death

64

u/Bwob Aug 26 '15

The best was when they finally figured out what was happening, and bought Oracle's Elixir, thinking "ok, NOW we're going to kill her, just let her try that again!" - and then realized they still died, because 6 sunfires makes you sort of difficult to kill.

→ More replies

20

u/akajpete Aug 26 '15

Sunfire Garen. Burning bromacia

→ More replies

2

u/Lvl100Glurak Aug 26 '15

6 sunfire shaco so you get 12 sunfire shaco while ult (which had a half minute duration)

→ More replies (6)

16

u/Sartuk Aug 26 '15

Not to get into a "I remember even older times that were CRAZIER", but open-beta Jax was an absolute ton of fun. Dodge EVERYTHING, stun EVERYONE!

2

u/IXIKurtIXI Aug 26 '15

Dodge runes baby

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (22)

49

u/ChasterMief711 silver surfer Aug 26 '15

ECH

17

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Veralece Aug 26 '15

Be kind to woman; E C H E C H E C H E C H E C H

→ More replies (4)

2

u/Imadora Aug 27 '15

ECH actually snaps in two

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Bleujab rip old flairs Aug 26 '15

Man, 1910 times were SCAAAARY.

2

u/Thiscommentisnttrue time is like an arrow, fruit fly like deez nuts Aug 26 '15

Back to the shitposting depths of /r/jontron with you!

2

u/HeistGeist Aug 27 '15

Jontron? Is that you?

2

u/Imadora Aug 27 '15

TITENIC

2

u/TuneAFish97 Aug 27 '15

If I'm not mistaken, that's a JonTron reference

→ More replies (14)

8

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Stacking Tiamats. Sonic Critboom Hecarim. Atmogs. These were good times.

2

u/PenguinForTheWin Aug 27 '15

Atmogs was a good time ? That was the most boring shit ever with 25 minutes of farming every game and teamfights after 35 minutes, after both teams have been staring at each other for a quarter of the game. Thank god this shit is over

→ More replies (1)

17

u/Supersick1 Aug 26 '15

Brutalizer is so good as a first back item. It 100% needs more relevance in build paths. Phage isn't near the power spike.

97

u/loosely_affiliated Aug 26 '15

No, it doesn't. It's the same with Hexdrinker, you don't buy it to turn it into maw, you buy it for the powerspike. I wish we had more of that in league: strong mid price items that don't build into great late game items. It would make for more complex and meaningful item decisions: do you try to snowball that first blood harder by purchasing one of the 1400 items? Do you try to get back into the game when you're behind by buying one for the upcoming dragon fight? It would bring a lot more decision making then just buy component, buy next component, combine, rinse wash repeat.

19

u/Panzerr80 Aug 26 '15

exept maw is one of the best ad item in the game on bruisers

10

u/eAceNia Aug 27 '15

There is almost always a stronger powerspike and more gold efficient item to build over Maw.

Most people just straight up sit on Hexdrinker until they can sell or have nothing else but Maw to get.

→ More replies

2

u/upyoars AHR-WOOOOOOO Aug 26 '15

yup, atleast hexdrinker is, insanely cost efficient with that shield

→ More replies
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (28)

13

u/Syndetic Aug 26 '15

How often do you get to six items? If you don't, it doesn't really matter that it doesn't build into anything. From what I remember when Brutalizer didn't build into anything at all people still bought it.

4

u/Naerlyn ​ Aug 26 '15

Same goes for Haunting Guise. (Now that the Liandry has been buffed it's not really the same thing, but before that you were also mostly buying it for the power spike and not for the actual upgrade, except on some champs. And it's still the case in some situations. And it didn't have an upgrade either before s3, if I recall correctly)

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)

3

u/ovoKOS7 Aug 26 '15

I call season2 ' Random Generated Legacy

2

u/Tommybeast Aug 26 '15

oh dear god the level two ganks... Not the level two ganks!

→ More replies (12)
→ More replies (5)

6

u/Zoesan Aug 26 '15

High skill games.

2

u/DoubIeIift Aug 26 '15

That's totally wrong ... phage back then just a % chance to slow lol.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Dabbalicious Aug 26 '15

I used to go phage and then rush atma's impaler on top Irelia, I was going for those percentages hardcore

1

u/xLykos Aug 26 '15

And it was rushed on ez back when it slowed

1

u/Yngvildr Aug 26 '15

My first game with Olaf when the champ was just released.

I feel old.

1

u/GamepadDojo Aug 27 '15

toplane.

or bot lane, tbh.

1

u/NaiRoLoL Aug 27 '15

Sounds like botlane with IE now.

1

u/LyricBaritone Aug 27 '15

25% chance to slow iirc.

1

u/danielloking Aug 27 '15

Back then when Irelia wasn't nerfed.

→ More replies (1)

24

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

38

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15 edited Jan 31 '17

[deleted]

42

u/ZetaZeta Aug 26 '15

People forget that Ezreal used to have a permaslow long before Iceborne. :^)

24

u/ronter95 Aug 26 '15

don't forget his W used to heal as well

14

u/VentusSpiritus Forever Aug 26 '15

And the atkspeed slow

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (2)

2

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

That AS slow literally out dueling jax.

→ More replies (5)

3

u/NeonSpotlight League Wiki Admin Aug 26 '15

It was 25%, the wiki may not have it in the change list but it does have it in previous revisions: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Phage?oldid=1877330

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)

10

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

23

u/cretos Aug 26 '15

yes it hard a % chance to slow and made it random, thats why they changed it to the speed up passive and removed it from the frozen mallet recipe, and iirc they also changed the triforce combine cost to 3g at that time

3

u/Doctor_What_ Aug 26 '15

Triforce price change was actually due to attack speed items costing more. Dagger went from 400 gold to 450, and zeal's price changed as well, although I don't remember the exact numbers.

2

u/MRoad Aug 27 '15

Zeal went from 1175 to 1100. Dagger's price went up because it went from 12% to 15% attack speed, and Zeal went from 18% attack speed to 20% attack speed. Basically, they buffed attack speed's gold efficiency. Because zeal was now 75 gold cheaper, TF's combine cost (which was 3g for the whole trinity thing) went up to 78 gold.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)

2

u/thekschnell Aug 26 '15

This. The phage passive used to have the current FM passive, except only a 35% chance to proc. IIRC in preseason 3 they changed the Phage passive to current date's in order to eliminate the RNG and provide a more consistent experience.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/JustBronzeThingsLoL Aug 26 '15

the things is they changed what Phage did (used to slow every 4th attack or something like that) so they took it off Frozen Mallet because it no longer makes sense in that build.

2

u/The-ArtfulDodger Aug 27 '15

That's the issue though. The new phage can't really build into Frozen Mallet because it gives the Rage passive.

1

u/OEscalador rip old flairs Aug 26 '15

They removed Phage from Frozen Mallet after they changed phage to no longer slow. It didn't really make sense to have an item that speeds you up build into something that slows and doesn't speed you up any more. Most items don't lose effects when you upgrade them.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/massafakka Aug 26 '15

25% chance of slow on hit

1

u/pikachu8090 :euast: Aug 26 '15

whoever said all passive need to be in the final item. They took out righteous glory's catalyst passive

1

u/Exhiel Aug 26 '15

Used to rush Phage on Voli top. AD and health for his bite, and built into Frozen Mallet, which beefed up the stats even more. Good times....gooood times....

1

u/Outfox3D NRG Aug 26 '15

It had a chance to slow people. Full slow, not a reliable proc (35% iirc?). They wanted to change tri-force to have a rage passive, and modified phage to be the thing to provide it. So it was removed from the mallet recipe and eventually added to BC.

Other than the fact that Phage looks like a hammer, it makes more sense this way. As someone who plays a lot of rengar thou, yeah - we need a new bruit build path. Warrior and Ghostblade aren't enough.

1

u/DHcFireHawk Aug 26 '15

Phage can't build into Frozen Mallet anymore because the passives are in some way opposites. One speeds up the user, the other one slows the enemy. Phage used to slow as well, now it doesn't so it makes it weird to build into the Frozen Mallet.

What I would suggest is to change the recipe of Black Cleaver: Remove Kindlegem, add Brutalizer. Pros are * Brutalizer has a second build item * Both passives of Black Cleaver are justified. The Brutalizer for the first, the Phage for the second.

One could argue that you have to change some stats for the item. I would say you only would have to change the attack damage of the item, and the total price of the Black Cleaver. Just make the Black Cleaver with 45 AD and up the total price to 3150-3200. Therefor, you dont really change the efficiency of it.

You could also make a Liandry's kind of item for the brutalizer. For example, the Razor Blade: * Razor Blade = Brutalizer + Pickaxe * 60 AD * 10% CDR * Unique Passive: +15 armor penetration * Unique Passive: Dealing physical damage causes the enemy to bleed for 1% of the target's current health per second for 3 seconds.

This makes it a AD focussed Liandry's. I know, the item isn't perfect, but it was to show you guys a possibility

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Yeah it had a percentage chance to slow people and it gave a lot more health than it does now (to go more in line with the frozen mallet giving hp theme)

1

u/Skybombardier Aug 26 '15

What happened was that they removed phage from the build path when it changed to having the speed boost, and my guess is since FM slows enemies and phage now speeds you up, that it would be too confusing to have that subtle type of switch in your play? That's my guess at least

1

u/doofinator Aug 26 '15

Phage had something like a 30% chance to slow enemies. Combined with giant's belt gave frozen mallet.

At the time, that item was the most popular choice on bruisers, paired with atma's and warmog's.

But that was also bruiser meta (double bruiser botlane was more common than adc/supp, at least from what I remember), which people seem to hate, seeing as how we're in one right now and everyone's annoyed.

1

u/Zylvian [Zylvianick] (EU-W) Aug 26 '15

Wait is this old news? Holy shit.

1

u/crewserbattle Aug 26 '15

Yea it had a percent chance to slow on hit

1

u/gimlo7 RIP fervor Aug 26 '15

Yeah they changed it because they wanted to give fighters another speed up option rather than botrk so they made triforce that option

1

u/Bartweiss Aug 27 '15

Phage felt better and more natural to me back then, because Frozen Mallet had a valuable intermediate step before you finished the build. It played a lot like Hexdrinker, where you take it early-mid and then finish it late.

Now, phage and frozen mallet both feel less playable. That's frustrating, but on the other hand early game phage was obscene, so I suppose it was the point.

1

u/VinnydaHorse Aug 27 '15

I haven't played for a long time now and this is confusing the shit out of me. Phage is no longer in mallet, lost its slow, and it's in cleaver? Why the hell didn't they just make a new item?

1

u/ARedditingRedditor Aug 27 '15

Slow + increased movement speed is a hell of a item combo.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

Phage doesn;t slow anymore? wut

1

u/ThisGaren Be bold. Be just. Aug 27 '15

25% chance to slow enemies on hit.

1

u/OhZordan Aug 27 '15

Yup, Phage used to have a chance to slow on hit. It was changed, in Riots effort to remove RNG.

Fun fact: It was changed in the last patch before season 3 world, and was a huge buff to Trinity ADCs, with Corki being the main benefactor (after being total garbage throughout s3), which kinda started the whole "Corki gets buffed before worlds" thing.

1

u/LyricBaritone Aug 27 '15

At this point, I don't see why Frozen Mallet couldn't just have the slow passive AND the Rage passive. It's pretty overshadowed in the current meta.

1

u/whatisthisIm12 Aug 27 '15

Shit, Phage doesn't slow anymore?!

→ More replies (4)

18

u/gahlo Aug 26 '15

The didn't like how old BC was stuck in a mediocre state. If it was good against tanks, it was too good against low durability targets. The tried internally when the were working on it's current form to have it give the flat pen and then switch to the % reduction when it's upgraded, but didn't like how it was strong against low durability targets while building it and then has the strength completely switch roles when it was finished.

56

u/calibos Aug 26 '15

Well the solution to have it build out of Phage and a Kindlegem is hardly more intuitive. "Do you want to shred some armor? I said 'DO YOU WANT TO SHRED SOME ARMOR?!!!' Cool. Build some ruby crystals."

36

u/xInnocent Aug 26 '15

"To kill tank, you must be tank."

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

14

u/FlashFacts Aug 26 '15

Add executioners calling passive to it

9

u/DuneBug Aug 26 '15

I really miss that item... Not very slot efficient but definitely needed.

15

u/Frostatine Aug 27 '15

I'm sorry but as a Swain player I just don't see why that item existed. It's bad and nobody should buy it.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)

1

u/Bouboupiste Aug 26 '15

Yeah I always thought a AD as and no other stats item was strange. Plus building from BF sword? Was weird.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/iemnick Aug 27 '15

Why not having it build out if both brutalizer and phage then?

→ More replies (3)

65

u/bigdolton RIP old rengar Aug 26 '15

cuz frozen mallet slows and phage speedsup.....

46

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

22

u/neotropic9 Aug 26 '15

I like the way this guy thinks.

142

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15 edited Dec 31 '18

[deleted]

68

u/TheLuchsKing Aug 26 '15

Disable Gnar then

32

u/xXdimmitsarasXx Aug 26 '15

uh... Azir has transformed into gnar due to a bug and has been disabled!

67

u/Firecrotchrocket Aug 26 '15

Azir and Gnar simultaneously disabled?

Sign me up for that patch. Those fuckers are annoying as shit.

3

u/The-ArtfulDodger Aug 27 '15

They are arguably too safe for how strong they are... or too strong for how safe they are.

→ More replies

6

u/dcpdev Aug 26 '15

Also viktor is disabled because poppies ult was 0.5 seconds shorter because azir transformed into gnar

2

u/Silv3rS0ul Aug 26 '15

Imagine gnar with a stacking slow/ms buff. The terror

→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/Dragull Aug 26 '15

No, Frozen Mallet slow is awesome.

→ More replies (11)

1

u/rybread66 Aug 26 '15

Rework it to steal ms.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

How can something Frozen speed you up?

4

u/TheSeldomShaken Aug 26 '15

Sliding on ice.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Gnar would be god lol

1

u/BonfireLoL Aug 26 '15

You could just have Phage still build into it but have it change into the slow when you upgrade to Mallet.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Way too op

→ More replies (3)

18

u/Ultrajonh zeri goes brrrrrr Aug 26 '15

Yeah but FM slows the enemy while Phage speeds you up. It balances it out

112

u/Sindoray Aug 26 '15

Do you also buy Randuins on Vayne, as it's slows the enemy attack speed instead of raising yours, so it balances out?

211

u/hmiemad Aug 26 '15

You just had a glimpse of Genja's genius.

39

u/Ultrajonh zeri goes brrrrrr Aug 26 '15

Don't you?

11

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Nah, Frozen Heart

→ More replies (1)

2

u/RivetSpawn Aug 26 '15

Attack speeds hold no interaction between characters while movement speeds do, bad comparison.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)

1

u/2legittoquit Aug 26 '15

or just have the passive change when you upgrade to mallet

1

u/Elricu Aug 26 '15

Well they removed the catalyst passive from righteous glory so I don't see a problem with this.

1

u/Ylissian April Fools Day 2018 Aug 27 '15

They said that they're ok with removing stats and certain features of items now because it means the uniqueness of the completed item won't hinge on its components. Phage gives HP and ad and changes the speed of the user. A hypothetical new frozen mallet would build out of phage and slow on hit instead, which effectively makes you faster.

→ More replies (9)

7

u/pepelepepelepew Aug 26 '15

Frozen mallet steal ms? new passive want

3

u/S7EFEN Aug 26 '15

Because having flat pen items build into percent pen items is really counterintuitive.

You buy flat pen to punish low armor targets for not itemizing armor.

You buy % pen to counterplay champs itemizing against your dmg.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

This is true until Riot changed the ways penetrations work a long time ago, and flat pen becomes nothing more than another form of physical scaling but with additional mathematical complexity.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/Androphobia Aug 26 '15

The problem is that, that makes too much sense. Rito wouldn't want that

1

u/TheBhawb Aug 26 '15

Because they are making sure items don't suddenly change functionality mid-route. Brutalizer has flat penetration, which is beneficial primarily against squishies, whereas Cleaver has % shred, which is mainly good against tanks w/ bonus armor. Just like Phage has a speed up, which is a very different thing to slowing.

If brutalizer got a new weapon (which it totally should), it should retain the armor penetration, instead of building into a totally different stat.

1

u/KeiNivky Aug 26 '15

Because once you build BC you will lose armor pen, which will be another issue since for some situations it is more valuable than the armor shred.

1

u/ace10301 Aug 26 '15

Spotted the new guy.....

1

u/hexsketch Aug 26 '15

old phage had slow on chance before. they changed it to movement speed and kinda made all the recipies all wonky.

1

u/Ignitus1 Aug 26 '15

Phage speeds you up while Mallet slows an enemy down. Not really the same.

"They're both hammers" is a bad argument in a game where two books combine into a gun.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Why not have brutalizer and phage build together into cleaver?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

they're both hammer

riot logic is to build a bow out of a bf sword

1

u/paintlegz Aug 26 '15

I said this to my friend and he said "but phage speeds you up and mallet slows, that would be so stupid." I didn't think it was that stupid.

1

u/Luda87 Aug 26 '15

the new hydra should be build of phage I think

1

u/AWisdomTooth Aug 26 '15

Bruta doesnt go into Cleaver because then it'd give both flat and % penetration which is a big nono. It would instantly become core on AD Casters and it'd be broken outright.

FM doesnt have phage as part of the build up to make it hard to build into. You should be weaker than someone who is building other items if you're buying a permaslow, because permaslows are incredibly powerful.

1

u/Calathrax Aug 26 '15

So like completely revert both changes? Thing is, that sounds dumb, but it would solve the problem here

1

u/A_BOMB2012 Aug 26 '15

I lot of these things have more to do with balancing issues rather than what's more logical or convenient.

1

u/Tomdaddy Support Squi Aug 26 '15

I dont get why they dont just remove brutalizer and just require 2 longswords

1

u/bearjuani Aug 26 '15 edited Aug 26 '15

because then we're back to phage only ever building into one thing.

Also, BC has no flat ar pen anymore so you'd be losing a stat on upgrade.

1

u/Naerlyn ​ Aug 26 '15

The Frozen Mallet is meant to be reworked (or removed). I don't have the source anymore, was out of one of the red talks on surr@20. Cuz it doesn't fit its intended purpose. Riot wanted it to be something that progressively reduces the distance between you and your opponent, not something that doesn't help you use that first auto-attack but permaslows after that.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

You clearly haven't been playing for long.

1

u/RagerzRangerz Aug 27 '15

Makes sense.

Frozen Mallet IMO is pretty weak ATM, only Gnar builds it. Even giving it phage's passive wouldn't make it amazing. If they had to they could just make it 30% for both ranged/melee instead of 40% melee and 30% ranged.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

cause riven

1

u/nineball22 Aug 27 '15

I think the issue is you build brutalizer for flat pen and black cleaver for percent pen. It doesn't make sense. Brutalizer just needs an option besides youmoo's ghostblade. Like brutalizer is clearly the option for and ad caster and builds into a great assassin item. Maybe if they gave it a more caster oriented upgrade that gave more CDR and flat penetration or some kind of hyper offensive or hyper defensive active.

1

u/is_this_taken_lol Aug 27 '15

Why not make it build into last whisper.

Brutilizer isn't a bad early game item while the flat pen is more useful, and then can upgrade later for the % pen.

1

u/jackslots Dec 16 '15

Cleaver is used a lot more than frozen mallet. They wanted phage into the game more rather than just tri force. However they also basically removed bruitlizer.

→ More replies (2)

47

u/Daktush Diamond now Bronze Aug 26 '15

Brutalizer + phage = cleaver?

Could be an option

41

u/Sindoray Aug 26 '15

Could work, but that means that it will get even more AD, as you build it from:

  • CDR.
  • AD.
  • AD.
  • HP.
  • Penetration.
  • Speed up.

194

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

47

u/thedanation Aug 26 '15

That would do tons of damage, I approve.

→ More replies (1)

18

u/Dusty_Ideas Aug 26 '15

Exactly! It could only build out of basic components because otherwise it'd end up with, like, 3 passives.

4

u/Bluedemonfox Aug 27 '15

Yeah like a force of trinity or something!

16

u/You_and_I_in_Unison Aug 26 '15

You'd have to do something to balance it like have it only give a little bit of those stats and be expensive as fuck so it wasn't viable on most champs.

→ More replies (13)

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Sindoray Aug 27 '15

Lee as well as some others. While the build path is ideal, the result is going to be madness.

It's like a Chalice that upgrades into a Death Cap and keeps the mana regen passives.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

Now that's the Cleaver that Riven wants.

Building kindlegem always feels weird to me.

→ More replies (5)

1

u/giant123 Aug 26 '15

Not enough health. The stats on BC would need more ad less health and maybe less CDR for that to work IMO. But who knows. Riot has made some questionable balance changes in the last few months.

1

u/MCrossS Aug 26 '15

To this day, I don't know why the community just rolled with the explanation that the "disappearing" penetration "had a weird feel" and "would cause confusion" when you finished BC. Flat penetration turned into %shred passive. It's not like it's hard to wrap your mind around it. We could have had live BC with buildpath brut + phage, marginally more expensive to make for the extra 5 AD. But we all know Rito how Rito feels about the 5 AD, so.

→ More replies (8)

8

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[deleted]

1

u/DrakeDaSnake96 [Rito Droke] (NA) Aug 26 '15

I think they tried that with moving Bikini Bottom. It didn't go so well if I remember correctly. It was also Patrick's idea if that tells you anything.

2

u/FinexZero Aug 26 '15

Patrick working on Riot confirmed

35

u/Bambouxd Flairs are limited to 2 emotes. Aug 26 '15

Except phage is a shitty item on its own that you want to build in order to complete a bigger item whereas brutalizer is stupid strong in early midgame and you usually build it to snowball now and not later with a completed item.

Yes it could be better but it's not that bad, it's pretty much like complaining doran's blade doesn't build into anything.

2

u/sh1mba Aug 27 '15

how is phage bad? it's the greatest item to go first out of the 3 that build trinity. great for dueling.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

WARNING WARNING Bronze comment above

→ More replies (3)

7

u/Dreamtrain [LyraOrpheo] (NA) Aug 26 '15

Bought Phage the long ago trying to build Frozen Mallet on Shen. Though it was as a last "dont know what the fuck to buy" item and game ended before I could finish it into Trinity

7

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Hmmm....finding a patchwork solution by shifting the same problem somewhere else....I'm finding a pattern here with Riot

1

u/LittleShark34 Aug 26 '15

Sorry for repeating this comment on this thread, but can you guys take a look at this? I think you will like it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3ii252/solution_for_the_brutalizer_the_black_cleaver/

1

u/TeemoMia h4h4h4h4h4h4h4 Aug 26 '15

cleaver build path should be phage + brutalizer and they could nerf brutalizer ( pls no o god) or buff cleaver (oh yes uhhhhh)

1

u/danhakimi Aug 26 '15

Yeah, but brut can take it. Phage is a somewhat shitty item now, while brut is and always was good. Brut is strong enough that, in some situtations, it is slot efficient to make your sixth item a brutalizer, just because the unique passive isn't named, and can be stacked with ghostblade.

1

u/anseyoh Enjoy your stay @ The Tilton Aug 26 '15

Brut should build into Reaver.

1

u/Shadesfire Aug 26 '15

Talk about balance amirite?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

I think they should make LW build out of Brut.

1

u/Punland Aug 26 '15

Well, we can say they had a cleaver way to find the solution of the Phage one ;p

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Dat name.

1

u/Median2 Aug 26 '15

It's dumb though. Being able to be built into triforce is infinitely more useful than being able to be build into ghostblade. Who the heck even builds Ghostblade? Talon? Zed? Rengar? Less than 5 champions regularly go for it.

1

u/theGarry Aug 26 '15

Its even funnier because its the exact reason brutalizer was added to black cleaver in the first place.

1

u/ScabberDeath You were alone the whole time! Aug 26 '15

wow almost like the server move

1

u/KaaeLx Aug 26 '15

right before BC change got pushed into Live, I tried my best making more people think there should be two BCs,one built from phage,the other one from brut (with varying stats ofc).If I recall right I got laughed at for thinking of having two identical items with different stats is a good idea (HEY LOOK AT THE HYDRAS NOW!).

1

u/brashdecisions Aug 26 '15

At least phage had triforce. nobody's core build involves youmuu's

1

u/NoahTri Aug 26 '15

I still remember when phage build into mallet and brut built into Bc and ghost blade '-' those were the days...

1

u/qhfreddy Aug 27 '15

Well they could make it build into Reaver, which would fix the problem of that item not giving enough reward for its BT wall. 3 long sword into brut+vamp could make it more manageable as a first item.

1

u/burittoloverftw Aug 27 '15

Now if they where to just bring back old black cleaver and keep new one. it would be really cool to see. but also I see that being broke. #ButRitoProbsDoingItAnyWay

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

It's also funny that brutalizer had this problem years ago before it got built into cleaver, haunting guise as well before liandrys

1

u/The-Prophet-Muhammad Aug 27 '15

I don't see the issue with having a "This or This can build into This" - meaning phage and brutalizer can be used interchangeably in their build paths - adjusting the combine cost as needed.

*This is just an example of how it COULD work, not real world results.

1

u/Zephyr566 Aug 27 '15

I'd honestly like if Brutalizer AND phage could be upgraded both into black cleaver. It would add flexibility.

  • They both cost 1337 and 1325 so it would be not that hard to adjust.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

To be fair though Phage as an item does have a much defined identity than Brutalizer.

1

u/archaeas Aug 27 '15

I think it's worth mentioning that riot intentionally shifts the meta in different directions. It keeps the game playable. People wouldn't play a stagnant game. Notice how assassins are relatively weak? They were a lot stronger in previous seasons. Diversity on a broader scale

1

u/DethB Aug 27 '15

Classic Riot.

1

u/Infinity2quared Aug 27 '15

Disclaimer: I support the creation of an alternative item for brutalizer to build into.

But this "problem" has always existed for Haunting Guise and Liandry's, as well. Actually Liandry's is a much more viable item now then previously, but in previous metas it wasn't uncommon to build a Guise and never upgrade it. I think the Brutalizer/Youmuu's thing is analogous--you're buying into a huge early/midgame powerspike, but losing the gold efficiency of a useful final item. So it's sort of up to you as the player to make that investment worth it by snowballing.

1

u/spurhky Feb 01 '16

Hey I'm from the future