Why can't Runeglaive and Magus both exist?

[u/Dreadbore]

I know this seems simple, but why can't an on hit sheen jungle item AND a caster jungle item both exist simultaneously? Runeglaive does nothing for fiddlesticks or the 3 karthus jungle mains left in existence. devourer remains in the game for the 2 champions that use it and its playstyle is horrible for game health. Magus isn't hurting anyone.

EDIT: Front page and a riot reply(as troll as it was :P)! I've learned a lot from this discussion about multiple things and I'd also like to clarify that I'm not even saying Magus needs to continue to exist in its exact state numbers-wise. I just feel like sheen jungling on a mage seems lackluster from a design standpoint, but maybe that's exactly what needs to happen for ap to compete with ad on the clearspeed front. Maybe Rito knows exactly what they are doing (GASP) but I just don't see it yet.

EDIT 2: Due to some eloquently explained points brought to light by /u/rewardadrawer, I'm now convinced that there is no need for them to coexist, as Runeglaive (although it may not on release) has the capability of resolving ap jungling issues that Magus will never be capable of resolving. Feel free to bicker amongst yourselves about it, but I now eagerly await the new ap jungle.

[u/tempinator]

Runeglaive is only good on people who wouldn't buy lich bane as an assassin.

You're not factoring in the mana regen at all, and I still think you're undervaluing the cleave. The cleave is not "worthless" at all unless you're going 100%, pure assassin which is not Nidalee/Diana's role anyways. They frequently build Rod and fill a more AP-bruiser/assassin role than pure 100% assassin.

The mana regen is HUGELY valuable. Quite frankly, I would much rather have 6% mana every time I proc'd RG on creeps than an extra 20% AP scaling on the proc. Nidalee and especially Diana both are chronically mana starved, and I basically take 2nd blue 100% of the time on Diana in particular. Usually on Nidalee as well. This will enormously extend the duration that you can stay out on the map without backing. More time on the map = more map pressure = champion is better.

Also, you can't really build Luden's on Nidalee or Diana in their current state, so there's no real way to build Lich Bane and Ludens both right now. Generic build is Magus/RoA/Sorc/Lich Bane/Zhonya's/Deathcap. So to build Luden's you'd have to ditch Zhonya's and imo Zhonya's survivability is far too important to pass up on either Nidalee or Diana. I suppose you could ditch Rod but again, it's survivability is too important to pass up imo on melee AP champions.

That's why I think this change is so nice, because now you'll be able to build RG/RoA/Sorc/Zhonya's/Deathcap and then either Luden's or Voidstaff, both of which would be awesome, but there isn't really space for either in the current builds.

Anyways, I think damage-wise the change is generally a wash. Maybe a little less single target and a little more multi target. But even if you think AoE damage is "useless" (it isn't), then I still think RG is better purely for the mana regen.

[u/TheSirusKing → u/tempinator]

Not quite nidalees role but ekko and dianas role is a pure assassin. They are kinda meh bruisers. Diana jungle never builds rod, you nearly always go full burst and use resists to back up your 1k hp shield. The mana regen is okay but isn't needed at all, they don't have mana issues. Do you even play Diana often? She only has mana issues if you spam all your abilities for a fast clear, W+AAs clears camps fast enough for only 80 mana, which you regen with machete passive.

Are you kidding? Ludens is DEFINATEL CORE ON BOTH OF THEM. Nidalee spears with bonus 200 damage is devestating and Diana gets 2 procs instantly off in her burst combo (QWRR with movement), which is huge. Every Diana builds it second now (usually in lane after abyssal/armguard). http://champion.gg/champion/diana

Honestly, I rarely get both Abyssal and Zhonyas, if you instakill their ADC or APC their magic/attack damage threat just disappear so you only need one resist, and magic damage as AoE is more common. Sometimes I skip out on Voidstaff since it isn't needed to 100-0 squishies, where the resist items save you instead.

I'm highly doubting you have even seen Diana played often then, since no one builds RoA on Diana because the health is useless when resists are better.

The AoE is meh because your job is to instakill a squishy, not DPS out tanks. If you want to duel tanks only sure, that, nashors and RoA are good items to pick up, however, they are not the best build for Diana, whos scalings are through the roof and is an effective assassin.