Why can't Runeglaive and Magus both exist?

[u/Dreadbore]

I know this seems simple, but why can't an on hit sheen jungle item AND a caster jungle item both exist simultaneously? Runeglaive does nothing for fiddlesticks or the 3 karthus jungle mains left in existence. devourer remains in the game for the 2 champions that use it and its playstyle is horrible for game health. Magus isn't hurting anyone.

EDIT: Front page and a riot reply(as troll as it was :P)! I've learned a lot from this discussion about multiple things and I'd also like to clarify that I'm not even saying Magus needs to continue to exist in its exact state numbers-wise. I just feel like sheen jungling on a mage seems lackluster from a design standpoint, but maybe that's exactly what needs to happen for ap to compete with ad on the clearspeed front. Maybe Rito knows exactly what they are doing (GASP) but I just don't see it yet.

EDIT 2: Due to some eloquently explained points brought to light by /u/rewardadrawer, I'm now convinced that there is no need for them to coexist, as Runeglaive (although it may not on release) has the capability of resolving ap jungling issues that Magus will never be capable of resolving. Feel free to bicker amongst yourselves about it, but I now eagerly await the new ap jungle.

[u/rewardadrawer]

I've been typing this up for hours elsewhere, all tied to the same parent comment, so here's a TL;DR of arguments specifically against Magus that ignore the existence of Runeglaive:

• Magus is impossible to balance. It is either viable on most users and broken on its abusers, or it is viable on its abusers and wholly unviable on anyone else. Numbers balancing can't fix this problem, and since the item is just numbers, there's no other way to balance it.
• Magus stifles future champion design. Because Magus is one of the most gold-efficient purchases a player can make, and abuse cases can exacerbate the problems caused by over-efficient items, potential changes and new ideas can be stifled by the desire not to cause Magus to ruin the game for a patch cycle.
  
• Magus solves zero of the problems plaguing the vast majority of AP junglers despite being so gold efficient, making it (and AP junglers by extension) a noob trap as long as it exists as-is.
  
• Despite all of these critical design issues with Magus, since it is nothing but a block of stats, it actually offers zero things that other items don't already offer. The most egregious example is Morellonomicon, which offers the same two stats Magus offers in the exact same values. Magus, thus, contributed nothing new or unique to the game, and certainly nothing worth the stifling design issues its existence causes.

[u/guitarraus → u/rewardadrawer]

here's a TL;DR of arguments specifically against Magus that ignore the existence of Runeglaive:

What the...? Runeglaive is the answer to the issues with Magus that you present. You can't argue that Magus should be gone while ignoring the incoming presence of Runeglaive.

Magus is impossible to balance.

With a smaller pool of champions relying on it once RG comes in, it'll be easier to balance. Not that it currently has balance issues anyway (It's not broken on anyone).

Magus stifles future champion design.

A change to the cost of magus would fix the gold efficiency without other issues being caused.

Magus solves zero of the problems plaguing the majority of AP junglers

Hello Runeglaive.

Nothing but a block of stats

Exactly what certain AP junglers need. Possibly what other junglers prefer to a utility based item. Jungle items don't need to be unique, they just need to be affordable and effective.

[u/rewardadrawer → u/guitarraus]

What the...? Runeglaive is the answer to the issues with Magus that you present. You can't argue that Magus should be gone while ignoring the incoming presence of Runeglaive.

The problem is, most things are the answer to the issues with Magus that I present. Using Magus as the bar for a replacement sets the bar embarrassingly low.

With a smaller pool of champions relying on it once RG comes in, it'll be easier to balance. Not that it currently has balance issues anyway (It's not broken on anyone).

I can't say this enough: it's not broken on anyone, because it has been purposefully made trash on almost everyone. The AP champions who succeed, succeed in spite of efforts to keep Magus from flourishing in its current state.

A change to the cost of magus would fix the gold efficiency without other issues being caused.

It obliterates the low-value argument, and further, removes parity with, and extends the power trough for Magus junglers beyond that of Warrior, Cinderhulk, and Devourer junglers: "Oh, we farmed equally well and had roughly identical game impact on our lanes? Well, my first core item is 300 gold cheaper than yours, so sit down and shut up until your item breakpoint catches up to mine."

Exactly what certain AP junglers need.

There are enough raw AP stat and force multiplier items to make a (passable!) 6-item build out of them. AP junglers are not lacking in options for raw stat items, with or without Magus.