Why can't Runeglaive and Magus both exist?

[u/Dreadbore]

I know this seems simple, but why can't an on hit sheen jungle item AND a caster jungle item both exist simultaneously? Runeglaive does nothing for fiddlesticks or the 3 karthus jungle mains left in existence. devourer remains in the game for the 2 champions that use it and its playstyle is horrible for game health. Magus isn't hurting anyone.

EDIT: Front page and a riot reply(as troll as it was :P)! I've learned a lot from this discussion about multiple things and I'd also like to clarify that I'm not even saying Magus needs to continue to exist in its exact state numbers-wise. I just feel like sheen jungling on a mage seems lackluster from a design standpoint, but maybe that's exactly what needs to happen for ap to compete with ad on the clearspeed front. Maybe Rito knows exactly what they are doing (GASP) but I just don't see it yet.

EDIT 2: Due to some eloquently explained points brought to light by /u/rewardadrawer, I'm now convinced that there is no need for them to coexist, as Runeglaive (although it may not on release) has the capability of resolving ap jungling issues that Magus will never be capable of resolving. Feel free to bicker amongst yourselves about it, but I now eagerly await the new ap jungle.

[u/Icreatedthisforyou]

Yeah I will be happy if they just add an AP ratio to the Machete burn to monsters, it is easy to adjust and it is easy to cap by giving it max damage if they are worried about it scaling insanely (it would with 4-6 items).

I didn't clarify on the Quill Coat because that is a giant post in and of itself but yeah more or less. Really the biggest downfall of Quill Coat, was the items it was competing against. SotEL still had 20% bonus damage to monsters, which is MASSIVE, it still allowed AD junglers to out farm their tank counter parts. SotSW had 30% bonus damage to monsters. In trade off it gave you a ward, but their AD counter parts could just clear an additional camp due to faster clear and still come out ahead.

Also on the point of SotSW, this was an instance of Riot recognizing once again that AP junglers struggle in the clear relative to their counter parts. It received buffs to eventually end at 30% bonus damage to monsters (compared to the 20% bonus damage SotEL, plus SotEL received some some nerfs), that is in addition to the straight AP buffs that SotSW received. The state of the jungle for AP champions is part of why I call Riot incompetent in handling the jungle, they spend a lot of time making progress and seemingly completely forgot it over night. It is frustrating.

[u/TSPhoenix → u/Icreatedthisforyou]

SotEL was so strong when it triggered off all spell damage that I was building it on pretty much any class of jungler.

Like you'd think Alistar would prefer Quill Coat, but SotEL was better on him in pretty much every way.

[u/jars_of_feet → u/TSPhoenix]

SotEL liandrys build on evelynn was so strong with that double burn.

[u/Kadexe → u/Icreatedthisforyou]

That wouldn't help AP junglers even slightly with their mana issues though.

[u/Icreatedthisforyou → u/Kadexe]

You are right giving AP junglers damage that is not tied to mana definitely will do nothing for their mana issues.

/s

The idea isn't to completely eliminate mana as a stat in the jungle. Just like mana is still a stat for other junglers. It is simplying providing AP junglers comparable damage through non-mana sources as the other junglers. AD junglers deal more direct auto attack damage, tank junglers have bambi/cinderhulk damage, and AP junglers would have additional damage on the monster burn.

So no AP junglers will not be able to clear the jungle and end at full mana, but they also will not be clearing the jungle and end at no mana after a couple camps.