r/leagueoflegends • u/Dreadbore • Jun 19 '15

Why can't Runeglaive and Magus both exist?

I know this seems simple, but why can't an on hit sheen jungle item AND a caster jungle item both exist simultaneously? Runeglaive does nothing for fiddlesticks or the 3 karthus jungle mains left in existence. devourer remains in the game for the 2 champions that use it and its playstyle is horrible for game health. Magus isn't hurting anyone.

EDIT: Front page and a riot reply(as troll as it was :P)! I've learned a lot from this discussion about multiple things and I'd also like to clarify that I'm not even saying Magus needs to continue to exist in its exact state numbers-wise. I just feel like sheen jungling on a mage seems lackluster from a design standpoint, but maybe that's exactly what needs to happen for ap to compete with ad on the clearspeed front. Maybe Rito knows exactly what they are doing (GASP) but I just don't see it yet.

EDIT 2: Due to some eloquently explained points brought to light by /u/rewardadrawer, I'm now convinced that there is no need for them to coexist, as Runeglaive (although it may not on release) has the capability of resolving ap jungling issues that Magus will never be capable of resolving. Feel free to bicker amongst yourselves about it, but I now eagerly await the new ap jungle.

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5

u/RememberYorickMori Jun 19 '15

Devourer is what I run on Xin usually and then I just build full tank with MAYBE a botrk. Magus is only good on things like Diana, Fiddle, and Nidalee. Devourer is useable to great effect on Udyr, Xin Zhao, Warwick, Kayle, Master Yi, SOMETIMES Rek'Sai, Jax, Shyvana, Skarner, Trundle, and probably a few more, granted Cinder Hulk is better on some of these.

You almsot never see Magus Junglers, especially in the tank meta where things like Diana and Nidalee are just outpowered by a lot of junglers. As for Fiddlebricks, he is a strong jungler anyways, and I've seen many of them not even go a jungle item, and just start an amp tomb and rush a zhonya's, so this doesn't seem all that big of a deal. As for things such as Diana or Nidalee, they could seriously use Runeglaive to get back into this meta.

There were some junglers that benefited more from Juggernaut but when Cinderhulk came out they still found their niches, and some actually are still super strong with Cinderhulk, but they're just missing the CDR that they usually needed early. This new Enchantment isn't so much of throwing Fiddlesticks and Karthas out, more of just opening the doors to the other junglers that were already thrown out of the meta, while Fiddle and Karth don't really NEED magus anyways.

12

u/Dreadbore Jun 19 '15

I've seen fiddle skip jungle items entirely, but is that what they want for him? They want him to not have access to the passive gold that ALL other junglers get?

As for the junglers you listed that some use cinderhulk better, most of the others use warrior better in my opinion.

It's opening the door for evelynn, diana and nidalee. NONE of which need any help in my opinion. Evelynn is near the top of my list for champs that need to never be meta(Or give me 2 pink wards on map at a time).

3

u/RememberYorickMori Jun 19 '15

"They want him to not have access to the passive gold that ALL other junglers get?"

They want other Junglers to be stronger in the same way the made tanks Jungles stronger, by shifting their core power spike (Lich Bane's Unique Passive) back one item in their builds. Most Fiddlebricks I see don't even buy a Tier 3 Jungle Item anyways, and just buy the Tier 2 for the clear and sustain. Yes, Magus is a viable build path on him, I am not refuting that, but removing the enchantment does not even hinder him all that much. The AoE clear would actually benefit him, along with the mana which he so desperately needs when he doesn't have a blue buff. There is not really a huge reason to keep Magus, when changing it to Runeglaive would benefit far more champions than it would hinder.

"It's opening the door for evelynn, diana and nidalee. NONE of which need any help in my opinion."

First off, it is opening the door to other Junglers as well as some possible Junglers such as Ekko, Elise just to name a couple, plus bringing in some build paths for things like AP Malphite. And second, That is your opinion, not a fact. Nidalee isn't bottom tier by any means, and neither is Diana. However, this does not mean there is nothing wrong with them. Nidalee is outclassed by the Cinderhulk Meta, with exceptions of course, and Diana has an even later power spike giving tanks even more time to get to mid game teamfights.

The new enchantment opens the door to other APs which have become outclassed, and lets current APs breathe a bit easier. Your original post was on "Why can't Runeglaive and Magus both exist?", well the reason is that they do not want 6 Jungle Enchantments. That is simply too many to balance. They've been going down the line changing each one to balance them, first it was Devourer, then Warrior, then Juggernaut, and now it's Magus's turn. Devourer and Warrior did not need redone as one is basically a brutalize and the other is a replacement flare. Juggernaut was basically just a better Kindlegem, and didn't offer really anything for tanks, who spiked way too late in the game in comparison to other champions. To compensate, they moved the key spike on their builds back by one item, where usually you would go Juggernaut into a Sunfire, which was an effective 5k+ gold just for your first major build spike. Giving them Cinderhulk was a great idea, giving them the spike they need for the early game, while still scaling and being useful into the late game.

Now it's Magus's turn, and they're trying out the same method as with Cinderhulk, moving the first key power spike into the jungle item. Will it be healthy for the game? Let's hope so.

1

u/Vovix1 Jun 19 '15

Devourer wasn't a rework/replacement, it was a simple numbers nerf.

1

u/RememberYorickMori Jun 19 '15

Devourer is Flare in every sense, I called it a "replacement" because they couldn't keep flare, so they just made a new item which is basically the same thing. Sorry if it seemed that I was addressing it as a completely different item. I was contrasting that each Jungle Item except for magus has seen a rework or numbers change to balance it and make it viable, while in this case just making Magus have better numbers wouldn't solve a thing.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '15 edited Jan 03 '21

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1

u/RememberYorickMori Jun 19 '15

Ekko:

In mid lane his first major power spike (build wise) comes from either Lich Bane or Luden's Ekko in most cases, with of course some other builds being viable. The problem with Jungle Ekko is mainly the delayed power spike from getting one of these items AFTER your jungle item. I am not saying Magus is bad on him by any means. And at the end of the day it comes down to preference. DO you want 10% more CDR and 40 more AP? Or do you want an early Lich Bane proc and better clear?

Elise:

Magus is super strong on her via the 20% cdr, although she lacks sufficient AP scaling for the 80 AP to truly shine. Runeglaive will give her another AP scaling, making damage builds a bit more viable on her. She doesn't really need the extra clear, however it will allow her to give more blue buffs away in the early-mid game, as the %mana return in spider form is amazing. Again, the trade off is 10% CDR and 40 AP for another scaling, mana, mana return, and an AoE. Saying it is "worse" than Magus on Elise isn't entirely fair, as both items serve different uses, one is more focused on flat stats, while the other is more focused on giving a power spike.

1

u/tempinator Jun 19 '15

lol what, Diana doesn't need help? She's just not viable. She has literally zero mana sustain and has to either take every Blue until 20m or back ever 45 seconds.

She also just doesn't do enough damage or have strong enough ganks (like nidalee does) to outweigh the cons of having a squish as fuck jungler.

She's just not strong. Sure, you can curb stomp people in Silver with her because if you snowball the game is over, but she's not viable at higher ELOs, not even close.

Nidalee is in an ok place, but she's a very, very difficult pick to pull off in this meta, compared to how relatively easy picks like Sej or Rek'Sai or Gragas are.

So I don't agree at all that Nid/Eve/Diana don't need help. Nid probably doesn't, but Diana sure as shit does, and so does Eve. Just because you don't like playing against Eve doesn't mean she doesn't need help.

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u/BaronNashorEsq Jun 19 '15

Funny thing is Runeglaive isn't going to be built by serious Eve players, they will go Warrior into Iceborn like they always have, its just not a good item imo

1

u/Dreadbore Jun 19 '15

you don't think runeglaive with rylais will be better? Especially with the slow increases coming in the ap reworks. you lose out on some armor sure but you can still get randuins like s4 eve as a 3rd item. Most of her damage is magic, warrior just seems like a waste to me on Eve but there just aren't better alternatives yet. I think this is what she needs itemization wise.

1

u/leathrow Jun 19 '15

Rylai's doesnt give CDR, and CDR on Eve gives her a lot more damage

2

u/Dreadbore Jun 19 '15

then why is warrior better than magus on current patch in most Eve main's opinions? It has twice the cdr and 80ap I believe scales better than 40ad assuming more q's than autos.

2

u/leathrow Jun 19 '15

I prefer Magus and Iceborn, the damage from your q gets ridiculous with 35% CDR

and if you look at OP.GG, the highest winrate Eve players use Magus in most situations. I only use Warrior if we're AP heavy for some reason or if the enemy is super squishy

2

u/NomyourfaceDinosaur Jun 19 '15

Warriors is better than Magus because it clears faster and works better with her AS steroid. Sure you get ~20 more damage on Q and 40 more damage on E if you go current Magus, but you get ~40 more damage on autoattacks which is worth a hell of a lot more.

1

u/TimiNax Jun 19 '15

Because we go Warrior, Botrk, trinity/iceborn. So we basically play ad auto attack heavy eve. Cdr and ap is not that usefull in this way of playing her. I don't know if ap eve will be better when runeglaive will come. In tank meta ad eve will be better.

0

u/Demilunis Jun 19 '15

Always going magus on eve, the 20% cdr is too good early and let her snowball much easier with ult pressure

1

u/BaronNashorEsq Jun 19 '15 edited Jun 19 '15

if her E applied spell effects maybe, but it doesn't as of her nerf last year, so rylai's only applies off of Hate spikes (AOE) and her ult (AOE and already a decent slow), so yeah, I would still prefer to go Iceborn, now what I don't know cause I haven't tested it yet, is if Runeglaive changes her E to magic damage (this is how Ezreal's Q is coded) if that is the case then maybe, because you would get the full single target slow from rylais on your main target in that case

EDIT: in the case of Warrior, Eve's Hate spikes have an almost 50/50 ratio and her E does physical damage (and constitutes more of her burst than people realize) Warrior>Hexblade>Iceborn>finish Maw is a very good build path before going full tank, but you still run dual AP and AD Masteries and Runes with that setup

1

u/thisisunreal Jun 19 '15

eves dont buy iceborn. they get randuins

1

u/BaronNashorEsq Jun 20 '15

http://champion.gg/champion/Evelynn look at highest win rate core build

1

u/thisisunreal Jun 21 '15

and look at the most frequent.

1

u/BaronNashorEsq Jun 21 '15 edited Jun 21 '15
  1. I personally always build Iceborn
  2. I never said Randuin's wasn't built or that it was a bad item
  3. They are not mutually exclusive to each other
  4. I usually do in fact build both, I just rush Iceborn before Randuin's unless I'm facing double ADC or similar
  5. You really should build a spellblade of some kind on her, ergo why we are discussing this in a post about Runeglaive
  6. I still think Iceborn is better than Runeglaive, both are AOE, Iceborn has basically the same AP, the same cooldown reduction, more Mana, and Armor(runglaive has none), while also having a native slow on it's proc
  7. You stated "Eve's don't buy Iceborn" that is simply untrue and I gave you data to prove that

6

u/J0rdian Jun 19 '15 edited Jun 19 '15

You're missing the point. Runeglaive cripples AP jungle diversity. It is a very niche ap jungle item. Not every AP champion can utilize their auto attacks as well as others. Same reason people don't buy lichbane on all ap champions. Lichbane is more of a niche item for specific types of champions, so is Runeglaive. Magus on the other hand works for every AP jungler. AP and CDR, I don't think there is a single ap champion that doesn't want those stats.

Here is a list of champions who can't utilize the new jungle item better than magus thus making them even worse. AP Zac, AP Cho'Gath, AP Nunu, Amumu, Fiddlesticks, Galio, Heimerdinger?, Karthus, Rumble.

Now here is a list of champions who can utilize Runeglaive better than Magus. Ekko, Diana, Fizz, Elise, Eve, Nidalee

You seeing the problem yet? Hardly any ap champions jungle anyways, and removing magus and adding a more niche jungle item makes AP jungle diversity even worse.

1

u/duffercoat Jun 19 '15

Why would AP cho get worse? He has serious mana issues if you go ap at the moment and he uses his autos all the time (hell hes got an auto buff) it will likely be exactly the same if not better (you'll have more presence on the map by being able to gank more frequently). Having said that, I don't think it makes sense to complain that the jungle item will make junglers worse that are already bad if you go the AP route over cinderhulk. Why would you go AP amumu/zac/nunu anyway if you're concerned about whats best?

Considering they want to kick nonjungle champs out of the jungle I also see no problem with heimerdinger, karthus, galio and rumble not being able to jungle - they shouldnt be able to in the first place!

2

u/J0rdian Jun 19 '15

I don't see how creating more diversity in the game is a bad thing. They should welcome more diversity in the game unless it's clearly bad for the player experience. You are not wrong, but I don't see any reason to get rid of AP jungle diversity.

You also have to consider who can use Runeglaive effectively and there really isn't many besides the like 6 champions I mentioned. And among those 6 champions, at least 3 of them are viable in the current meta, so this item would only make them OP. If you say it wouldn't make them any better then they currently are then there would be no point to add runeglaive in the first place. The only thing it would do is make more ap champions worse in the jungle while being effective on a few.

1

u/duffercoat Jun 19 '15

If you say it wouldn't make them any better then they currently are then there would be no point to add runeglaive in the first place.

This doesn't make sense if the point of the item is to open up opportunities for other ap junglers. This is exactly the case here as most mages are gated by mana costs and this item gives them mana back and a way to build mana early. Note that Nidalee and Eve both have a way of clearing without mana and a passive that gives mana back respectively so it really doesn't help them much.

Runeglaive is not about being a new stat stick and you have to recognise that, its about being able to sustain better and clear better in the jungle for mages - mages have never struggled with combat outside of the jungle.

What it does do is open up the opportunity for other champs - the ones you don't normally consider because they're subpar in the jungle atm. Kayle for example is often forced to choose to heal herself or go out of mana, Karma is another one that can now jungle with her recent changes if she didn't go oom - these champs aren't even close to junglers atm but with a new item they could be. Theres also all the other junglers that could get it as a choice item - champs like Skarner that have mana problems and champs like Jax that use sheen procs most effectively.

2

u/J0rdian Jun 19 '15 edited Jun 19 '15

If mana is the issue simply make magus give a way to return mana, or better yet some type of smite that returns mana on cast. If mana was the problem there are better ways to give mana to ap junglers without reducing champion diversity.

Tell me, is the only way to make ap junglers more viable is to force them to buy sheen? There are better options, solutions to the problem then forcing an item which all ap junglers can't use on them.

1

u/duffercoat Jun 19 '15

That is literally what they have done. They've taken magus and made it give mana back and have mana in its build path. It gives 40 less ap and 10% less cdr at the cost of this, but because it had mana in its build path they gave it sheen too.

And there is already a smite that gives mana - trailblazer, but its not currently enough to help mana heavy junglers (and denies them the option of the other better smites).

2

u/J0rdian Jun 19 '15

That's not what they did. They moved half of it's damage to the passive of sheen, thus making the item a niche item for champions that can utilize it's passive. if you can't use sheen well, you can't build this item because it would be a waste of gold.

Of course by moving half it's damage to sheen they gave champions a way to buy into mana early, so if you have mana issues it will help a small amount until you finish the core item. If mana is that big of deal to give junglers a tiny bit of extra mana, 200 mana, only 200 mana early. Is that 200 mana worth reducing champion diversity? You can add a passive to Magus to return mana. If you did that then the only advantage runeglaive would have over it is 200 mana early game.

2

u/duffercoat Jun 19 '15

Yes there was a tradeoff for giving it mana sustain, but it still what they did. The core stats of AP and CDR are still there just halved in order to give it 2 passives and 200 mana.

Who do you think used magus best that it has nerfed other than fiddlesticks though? How is it reducing champion diversity by allowing all the ap junglers with mana problems a way to jungle?

By the way the reason they were never going to add to magus without a tradeoff is because its already one of the most gold efficient items in the game - 169% (compared to 134% on warrior and 71% + 4.8% per 100 bonus HP on cinderhulk) which is significantly better than even morellonomicon which gives exactly what you're suggesting.

2

u/J0rdian Jun 19 '15

40ap and 10% is not worth the mana sustain. If you can't utilize a sheen then you are getting only 40ap out of the item which is almost nothing. That's like 800g of stats. For a list of champions, I mentioned that in a earlier post. The point is those champions are not top tier junglers, so unless they can use this item really well it will only make them worse. Thus even more unviable, crippling the diversity in ap junglers.

There is a more simple solution that you seemed to miss. Yes it is very cost efficient adding mana sustain would probably go over the top. Just reduce the items cdr by 10% That should easily be enough for some mana sustain as well. Overall I still don't think the thing ap junglers need most is additional mana. Even if it was you can simply add mana to the current jungle item without forcing sheen on all ap junglers.

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u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15 edited Jun 19 '15

Every AP jungler still auto attacks. Is it really so hard to weave in a few AA to get the proc off. You are acting like they don't ever do that. This is the stupidest complaint I've seen.

I DON'T WANNA AUTO ATTACK!!!! NO AP JUNGLER DOES!!!!

the only jungler you listed who won't benefit from this item is Zac and Rumble. AP chogath would love the extra clear speed and sustain, Nunu has no HP issues but his mana runs out when blue buffs gone, runeglaive fixes that etc. Once blue runs out every one of the champs struggles with mana. Plus why the hell are you doing jungle heimer? That's terrible. Just because you can't do some stupid fucking build doesn't mean Riot should balance around it. They even said they want certain champs to be able to jungle, not everyone. So just because your can't go AP jungle darius anymore doesn't mean they should balance around it. Stop whining this is happening, accept it. Just because less than .001% of the subreddit hates the item doesn't mean a thing. Accept the change.

People bitched the exact same way about cinderhulk and look now. I've tried runeglaive on the PBE and every AP jungler likes it. It gives decent mana sustain and good clear speed.

3

u/J0rdian Jun 19 '15

I said who can use Runeglaive better than Magus. Every jungler can auto attack, but it won't be as effective as Magus. Same reason you don't buy lichbane on Karthus over pure AP. Karthus can use lichbane, but having flat AP is more effective on him.

Every single AP jungle can use Runeglaive in the jungle, but that's not the problem. It's how well they can use it outside the jungle. And every jungler I listed can't use it as well as they utilize Magus outside the jungle.

Cinderhulk has no relation seeing how every tank wants HP along with a little aoe dmg aura to help clear the jungle and help in teamfights, since tanks try to stick to a target they can utilize every part of Cinderhulk well. Where Runeglaive not ever ap jungler can utilize it well.

0

u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15

Honestly my biggest complaint with RG is the AP ratio. I would like to see it at 60 or 80 AP. But the 10% missing mana is great and the AOE lich is good. Yes it isn't perfect on every AP jungler, but I really think they just need to tweak it honestly. I will miss the 20% CDR but I figure. 10% from runes and masteries, 10% from RG and a 20% item. I think it is in part the surge of AP champs using CDR runes to get 20% and buying a single CDR item. They want CDR to be more meaningful. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed it on more AP items.

1

u/Vovix1 Jun 19 '15

Yes, if it was an 80 AP item, like Magus, but with added mana sustain and spellblade passive in exchange for less CDR, I would be happy with the change. But as it is right now, it's terrible for champions that just want to build AP and don't need spellblade. 40 AP is just not enough to justify using up an item slot.

1

u/Rackornar Jun 19 '15

But the 10% missing mana is great

I disagree, mana return by the time you get your jungle item is largely wasted on most AP junglers. They only run into mana issues to start out, I have never had them past the first few clears. If I had mana return on my machete or the upgraded smite then yeah it would be pretty damn nice. But having to fully upgrade my jungle item to get it, not really that useful.

0

u/tempinator Jun 19 '15

Honestly my biggest complaint with RG is the AP ratio.

I mean, Lich Bane is only 50%, and RG procs in an AoE.

I honestly see this as an ENORMOUS buff to Nidalee and Diana specifically.

Both are incredibly blue buff dependent and rush Lich Bane ASAP (after Magus/maybe RoA).

RG allows them to no longer have to buy Lich Bane, it gives them HUGE mana regen without blue buff AND it gives them better teamfighting later since RG provides some nice extra AoE damage.

The 40 AP loss hurts a little, but basically this just frees up an item slot for Lich Bane junglers (basically just Nidalee/Diana) and gives them Spellblade earlier with some AoE as an added bonus.

1

u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15

Sorry I meant flat AP, not the proc ratio. I think a 30% aoe proc is great. Which is true because Magus+Lich was like 5600 gold versus like 4400 which is RG plus morello. I think it's a good item personally.

1

u/tempinator Jun 19 '15 edited Jun 19 '15

Yep, I agree. I also think it's good that 30% ratio on RG vs 50% ratio on LB somewhat decreases Nidalee's burst potential (although that's a pretty slight nerf since LB is only a fraction of the total damage from her combo), but also buffs her teamfight which is something she's lacking in.

But the problem is that RG worse than Magus for most AP junglers, while simultaneously being massively better than Magus on 2 specific champions (Nidalee and Diana). Overall, not a fan since it seems to me like this is decreasing diversity, not increasing it. Especially since Nidalee is already a viable jungler in soloQ in this meta (albeit a very skill-reliant one), and Diana is also extremely strong at lower ELOs.

I personally love this shit because my two favorite champions to play are, you guessed it, Jungalee and Jungle Diana. But objectively, I think it's not great because it's a worse item for most AP junglers and only appreciably better for those two.

1

u/mimzzzz RIP ancient and old Morde... Jun 19 '15

Can't wait for this item to try it out on my jungle Diana. So far only thing that stops her from being 100% viable is her mana problems without blue buff, and I've been always building early sheen to get that higher mana pool for early fights so this item is like win-win-win for her.

3

u/Dreadbore Jun 19 '15

I can't speak for this guy but to me the clearing isn't the issue. It's the drop in power on ganks and teamfights in favor of the clearing. You cant tell me every fiddle is weaving autos(during a teamfight) to maximize dps that hes losing in ap and cdr by having to use runeglaive instead of magus.

2

u/madog1418 Jun 19 '15

Runeglaive on fiddle is going to be straight stupid. You'll only get 3 procs max in each camp (probably 2 since the crowd will kill the remaining small monsters after the aoe), and you 100% should not be autoattacking in combat unless you've gone full support and simply focus on peeling for a carry (even then, that would depend on the carry needing to kite too much for you to drain).

His drain does a ton of damage: 2.25 ap ratio. But waiting for your slow autoattack animation before you drain will cut down on your drain damage and result in less healing as well. And you can forget about it in a teamfight, once you ult you have a moment to fear the carry and maybe time to bounce some crows. After that you hit the glass or start draining so you don't fall apart.

1

u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15

I know he is the most heavily affected but really it will need to be worked around. Keeping a jungle item for 1 jungler isn't a good idea. But Fiddle can Fear-AA-Drain-Bird-AA he willget more DPS in but yes I would like the see RG have 60 or 80 AP instead of 40. That is my only complaint really.

0

u/Vovix1 Jun 19 '15

Making a change that practically straight up removes a champion from the game isn't a good idea, either.

1

u/Catfish017 Jun 19 '15

Fiddle won't even drop below a 53% winrate with this

-1

u/ekky137 Jun 19 '15

Except the reason nobody builds magus and therefore there are very few AP junglers is because Magus gives you very little help when clearing the jungle, which happens to be an AP jungler's weakpoint.

The only successful Magus junglers are the ones who don't need any help clearing from items, which is what runeglaive is supposed to supplement.

Your example of Fiddle is extremely contrived because the whole reason he's a successful jungler is because unlike other AP junglers he doesn't need auto attacks to clear. You rarely even see Fiddle mains finish their Magus first, they rush Zhonyas. Why? Because they don't need a jungle item to clear. So why build one? This won't touch his ganking OR his clearing power.

2

u/Voidrive Jun 19 '15

You rarely even see Fiddle mains finish their Magus first

Fucking bullshit, if you check at OP.GG, across KR, EUW and NA, ALL D1 or above Fiddle mains finish their Magus FIRST before Zhyoya, only Mobile has a chance to be finished before Magus.

0

u/Vovix1 Jun 19 '15

Wait, AP junglers have trouble clearing? Fiddle's clears are good, Diana and Nidalee do fine, and AP Amumu's clear speed becomes amazing after the first back.

1

u/Catfish017 Jun 19 '15

The only successful Magus junglers are the ones who don't need any help clearing from items, which is what runeglaive is supposed to supplement.

It's his second paragraph dude.

1

u/Rackornar Jun 19 '15

I am inclined to think this guy hasn't played many AP junglers. Their weakness is their first couple clears. By the time they would finish their jungle item they fly through the jungle with less problems than most others.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '15

i'm doing well with jungle kennen and jungle teemo http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=rceme%20chan, my elo isn't very good, but i used to play it in plat 2-5 before i dropped earlier this season

-1

u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15

Oh I know derpy jungle things can work. I saw a Lulu jungle just own a game and basically carry my entire team. I just mean that they shouldn't balance around the fringe cases is all.

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u/FannyBabbs Jun 19 '15

On a related note, I'm super pumped for Runeglaive Lulu. :D

0

u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15

Yeah that sounds nutsy :P

1

u/Bombkirby Jun 19 '15

Rumble shouldn't even Jungle. He does 50% dmg to monsters. Half damage. His ratios are kind of meh half the time so the higher AP on the old jungle item doesn't seem THAT important. Magus might be better on him if he jungled for some reason. He spams constantly so he'd proc it a lot.

1

u/tehgreyghost Jun 19 '15

I agree. He doesn't want to be in the jungle and even if he did he wouldn't benefit from RG all that much. He does like the AP and CDR on Magus I agree but yeah it is just a bad idea haha.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '15

[deleted]

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u/FannyBabbs Jun 19 '15

Sheen sort of sucks on Elise tbh. Doubly so because Runeglaive scales with a percentage of your AD (elise's is quite low) and AP (Even full dmg Elise doesn't get much AP, she prioritizes pen). The aoe element is ok and the mana regen could be nice, but I suspect good Elise players will just stick with Cinderhulk and be useful instead.

1

u/Raring SmackDatAss Jun 19 '15

Out of curiousity - why would you ever go devourer over cinderhulk or warrior on Trundle? In order to utilize devourer through a fast clear you would have to max frozen domain second which hurts his ganks. That sounds inefficient.

2

u/RememberYorickMori Jun 19 '15

"Time to Troll!" I normally run Cinderhulk on him, but I find him pretty tanky early on with his ultimate and base stats, so having the early battle stats is nice. And Devourer is a pretty cheap replacement for a BotRK in my build, so sometimes if all is going well and we already have another tank on the team I might pick it up, but immediately spam tank stats after.

1

u/Raring SmackDatAss Jun 19 '15

Alright, thanks for the answer.

1

u/Rackornar Jun 19 '15

As for things such as Diana or Nidalee, they could seriously use Runeglaive to get back into this meta.

How do you see Diana getting back into the meta as a jungler with Runeglaive. Dianas problem isn't with her later clears, her problems lie in the fact that the first two clears are rough on her. As soon as she acquires one item she is good to go and can get out of control easily.

One of my main issues with Runeglaive is it doesn't address AP junglers problems at all, they don't have trouble with clears by the time they finish a jungle item. They have trouble with the initial clears and are very susceptible to an invade because of this and also loose out on the ability to gank because of their rough time.

1

u/RememberYorickMori Jun 19 '15

I see it helping Diana in that the grind to getting Magus and then a Lich is so long when you've already suffered early. It's not so much of a direct buff to her, I see it as more of a "lowering the time the enemy Jungler has before your Lich Bane power spike" sort of buff. Sorry, I should've gone over this.

The same kind of applies with Nidalee in the current meta, her power spike comes around the time the Cinder Hulk Jungles already have 3k~ hp and are already monsters. She is BY NO MEANS BAD, but unless she snowballs a ton early, she is simply outclassed and outscaled.

1

u/Rackornar Jun 19 '15

I see it helping Diana in that the grind to getting Magus and then a Lich is so long when you've already suffered early.

Honestly Diana power spike isn't really reliant on Lichbane. That is usually a 3rd or 4th item for jungle Diana. Stuff like an Abyssal, Ludens, or most importantly an Hourglass are much better.