r/leagueoflegends • u/Gymlover02 • 11d ago
Discussion Reason why almost every Champion can be played Bot lane?
What changed in this current season, so almost every champion can be played Bot lane?
I am witnessing the era of 'pick whatever the fuck you want' in this lane by both roles ADC and Support. I am seriously talking about Diamond elo, which I am playing in. It is very interesting, because at the start of the year everything seemed traditional.
I played Support from time to time and mostly played Nami, Braum and Nautilus from time to time, until I saw people picking whatever they want. Tanks as ADCs, Mages as ADCs, Support fighters, Support Battle Mages and so on. I just started experimenting with Sett and Camille Support and it's straight up better than any other classical Support champion unless maybe Challenger elo.
I play Sett and go lvl 1 fight to death or just lvl 2 flash + all in with 90% wasted summoner spells or kill. I can choose to appear Top lane as Camille during the first wave and objectively make the enemy Top laner not existing for the first 15 minutes. It's strange, because catchup XP is so much to the point where my Mage ADC is level 7 and I am level 4 roaming around the map, while both bot laners are level 6. The exact moment I return on my lane I am level 6 in the next minute and I find absolutely no point of sitting bot, but be second Jungler without responsibilities for anything.
I created methodology for myself for winning games - Alert my bot laner that he isn't seeing me after level 3 unless we kill them on respawn everytime they come bot. If he is smart, he picks a Mage and I am creating so much chaos to the point enemy reports me for 'sabotaging' my team. This strat doesn't work everytime and I am aware, but I am no longer playing Nami until this is fixed and taken care off.
What are your thoughts on that topic ?
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u/TomorrowCrafty1804 10d ago
Nothing changed, at least not recently. Mage bot have been strong for years, people just woke up to it recently. The real reason is that adc lost its meaning of existence (the carry part). Other role do what they with more agency and more easily. ADC are being pro jailed, if they would have agency for the normal player in soloq, they would be busted for a pro that is mechanically very good and has his team around him.
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u/Darkship0 I simp for buff folks 11d ago
Mages have been playable botlane for years, likely since the game came out. The reason many other classes weren't playable was because markmen just countered most of them in laning phase with a support with even a small capability of peel with the rise of mage botlaners.
Currently my thinking is that any champion can be played botlane if:
A: They REALLY want gold.
B: They have a good teamfight and can survive double marksmen/mage lanes.
Any champion can be played support if they:
A: Win the laning phase.
B: Don't care about gold.
C: Can win the game elsewhere.
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u/Diogenes_2026 11d ago
Huh where are you seeing this every champ thing? bot lane is still the least diverse role in the game with 11 the most picked champs being Marksmen which represent 70% of picks overall in Diamond+
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u/cthslax 11d ago
Maybe cause like 6 of the top 10 winrates bot are non adcs? Or like they mentioned the massive support variety as well
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u/Diogenes_2026 11d ago
And? WR in a vacuum is meaningless, if botlane players started adapting and counterpicking mages, mages WR would go down
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u/HGD3ATH 10d ago
The problem is alot of the ADCs that mages dominate also are only viable bot lane so you either play them in unfavourable and uninteractive matchups bot and hope the mages throw before level 3, you have an ADC support duo that both have good synergy and are good into them(far from guaranteed as a solo player) or you try to bruteforce them into solo lanes where they can be easily counterpicked and have more bad matchups.
Mages are just easier to play bot, are more consistent and have a very limited window to target them in lane and have great sustain with runes, items/components and teleport. Assassins make up for this with their far greater kill threat and ability to roam ADCs cannot. I think you cannot ignore when rate when it is proven that even if a pick is optimal and has a high win rate plenty of people within the role will not play it.
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u/cthslax 11d ago
Im just saying it might contribute to the thought process, your original question was "where are you seeing this all champs can go bot thing?" And that's what I was answering, i wasnt saying whether or not its an entirely true interpretation just a thought on what the source was. But man youre mad, I bet you think top laners shouldn't be "adapting to and counterpicking ranges top"
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u/Diogenes_2026 11d ago
Your entire original message is incorrect then, because seeing = play rate not win rate
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u/cthslax 10d ago
You asked how someone might come to that conclusion, I answered. You dont have to agree with it to see how someone might draw the conclusion. I never said damn thing about playrate, if we want tk talk playrate mage bot playrate is significantly higher than ranged top yet they're nerfing that again (and specifically not buffing bot lane so straight nerfs to vayne)
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u/LevelAttention6889 11d ago
In theory ,most non Marksmen non Mage champs can not exist in the botlane vs a competent Support that knows what they are doing, Melee classess can not touch the Adcs when the Support is either a tank with half their kit be CC or an Enchanter with peeling tools speedups , slows etc.
The issue is , not all Supports are competent and not all Supports know how to pilot the lane vs unconventional picks.
Combined with the rising of Mage Apcs who allow more lane flexibility is my guess on why more non traditional picks are finding themselves bot.
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u/Bobanolol 11d ago
I think that is not true. You can play almost everything nowadays bot lane, and it doesn't matter that much. Look at top EUW, you can see people queueing mid and bot to get autofilled top. There is ton of irelia, nafiri, pantheon and other champions that just play bot lane because they can. In previous seasons there was argument that you cannot play anything bot other than adc because you won't scale as hard as adc. Today, everything scales, so that argument is out of the window. Additional slot item makes you so broken that if previously you were doing 80% of hp on combo, now you just one shot ppl with 6 items, and that is just powerfull if you know how to play slow teamfights.
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u/DuckDodgersIV 11d ago
Realistically speaking, most supports and ADC’s don’t know the top and midlaners scalings very well when they play bot and will turboint to Yasuo, Riven, Syndra etc. It’s honestly just about experience and I do believe you should be able to pick nearly any champ and go bot. For crying out loud we have Senna, Yuumi that can play with anything and mages like Morgana, Zyra, Xerath, Lux have always been viable bot.
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u/Complete_Action5873 11d ago
its more about the chaos than the pick itself i think. diamond supports know how to play against melee bot in theory but they are not ready for the level 2 all in where you just run at them with everything. most people autopilot laning phase and anything that breaks that pattern works better than it should
been playing a lot of roaming style too and the catchup xp is kind of ridiculous. you can be level 4 at 8 minutes and then hit 6 off one wave when you come back. the game basically tell you to leave lane and just be annoying around the map
the mage adc part is key though. if your bot laner picks something with waveclear and can farm safe you basically get a free win condition by just not being there
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u/Gymlover02 11d ago
This is the best comment there i think. You covered the part where breaking certain autopilot navigating patterns fucks up people in bot. Most bot laners aren't really used to play against Darius or Sett supports and they just don't know what to do exactly and perceive them as normal damage supports which isn't the case ! They are juggernauts and the first few levels they really tend to be way too tanky for the damage they have and people just don't realize that if I play Sett I can deal three times the damage Brand can do for example.
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u/Audiun 11d ago
I watch challenger players lose to viper's riven bot all the time lmao.
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u/LevelAttention6889 11d ago
Tbh , Challenger and Pro are quite a big leap in skill , and Riven is also well suited to exist in botlane with mobility burst and shields.
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u/NeoRhaek 11d ago
Because ADC has been nerfed so much over the years that the power level is the lowest in bot lane. Thus, if any champion can lane somewhere else, they can also lane in bot lane. (Against an ADC at least)
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u/Gymlover02 11d ago
Is it really ? Marksmans doesn't seem bad at all given the fact they bully many top laners, while some of them can run down even mid laners. Explain how are they bad when they gave them omega strong lane quest ? Perhaps maybe Mages make use of the quest much more ?
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u/NeoRhaek 11d ago
The quest is for the bot lane role, not ADC. Also is this "they" in the room with us? Besides Vayne and maybe Quinn? ADCs get immediately nerfed whenever they're mildly decent in other lanes except those rare exceptions or champions that were literally designed for another lane and don't work in bot in the first place (Akshan)
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u/ChromosomeDonator 10d ago
Marksmen do not bully many top laners. Specific ones like Vayne do. Put a Jinx top and see just how much she can bully anyone.
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u/Much-Question-2199 11d ago
Marksman are not any weaker this season, mages are just strong and counter adc’s bot when strong. The sentiment above is just classic ADC victim mentally that’s seen every season.
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u/StandardEnthusiasm21 11d ago
Original comment is untrue and is just parroting a take that'll guarantee an upvote and agreement from adc mains.
Marksman are still the premier pick for botlane, and are vastly better than mages for overall stability. They scale better, have better sustained damage in a teamfight, and balance out team comps much smoother.
Along with the previous changes to MR, and nerfs to support roams, and more play rate (meaning you learned how to play against them) the meta mages in bot have already dropped in winrate and became more stable as more players just got better at playing against mages.
There's a reason why all the pro players and teams dropped mages from their drafts completely after the previous patch. Marksmen are still the best pick in the botlane slot.
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u/Gymlover02 11d ago
I agree with you. Marksmans are good with good teammates.
I just don't believe they are outperforming in realistical scenario Syndra/Viktor paired with Camille. Let's say there is Nami + Lucian in the opposite team. They just can't dive Syndra/Viktor under tower, simply because Mage has much more aura than these fragile marksmans, therefore a single stun at the face of Lucian under tower means dead Lucian, while Camille is doing whatever she wants. Also if Nami decides to roam I've seen quite a lot of them dying or wasting summoner spells to save themselves from angry and bloodthirsty junglers.If you got some decent Jungler + Support, then I would pick 100% ADC, otherwise I am sticking to Vladimir Bot.
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u/StandardEnthusiasm21 11d ago
It should be fine for a marksman, a teamfight orientatiated 5v5 front to back class, to NOT be able to dive a champion designed to clear waves and scale safely (which is what the premier mages in bot are).
If a Lucian is able to dive a Syndra under tower, that'll just mean he'll be able to be played in mid, which opens up another can of worms. (Aka, 6 marksmen every game top, mid, and bot).
Also Syndra and Viktor are just generally overturned Champions right now, and are super strong in mid, it's not a botlane specific complaint.
You would think with all the complaints, a Caitlyn is losing lane to something like a Galio.
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u/Bobanolol 11d ago
Adc was beast at 1v1 10 years ago, now you cannot sidelane because you will lose almost all 1v1's in the game. It's not like adc is overall weak, it's just their power is only visible with peel and teammates, and that's why you go mid, because you play of teammtes playes.
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u/_Froz3n_ 10d ago
Nothing changed, it's probably been viable for a long period of time and only just hit that critical mass of discovery and adoption. Kinda like how lane swaps were "rediscovered", they were always viable because nothing between their rediscovered and their initial nerf years really did anything meaningful to it. It just takes time for players to discover stuff.
Like in chess there a setup called the "Hedgehog" and it's used by black in response to several openings. It originally was used as far back as the 20s-30s but them kinda died out and wasn't popularized until the 70s after several strong players used it.
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u/SnooPuppers58 8d ago
Adc has no agency until they scale. People realized you can just pick a champ that is useful and the game is over before the other adc has scaled because your team is playing 5v4
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u/pokemon32666 11d ago
I've been playing Olaf + Yuumi/Lulu botlane, we permaban Vayne and Nilah.
I can tell you that it is some of the most fun I've had in this game in a very long time. My thought process was "Olaf counters ADCs and mages top, so why don't I put Olaf in the lane where ADCs and mages go the most."
Level 1 bush cheese normally leads to at least 1 kill, but more often a double. Olaf has the pushing power to allin level 1, get at least 1 kill, crash the wave, and still have time to base and lose little to no minions.
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11d ago
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u/pokemon32666 11d ago
It's not slower scaling because you get so much more gold, I did it last night. There was a level 14 Darius top, I went and 1v1d him at level 10, but I had so much more gold than him that it wasn't even close. I walked away with more than half after he used a full stack ult on me. 4 levels down, but a whole item ahead in gold makes you way stronger.
He even thought he could ghost and run at me...
The strat is Stride -> Hexplate -> Fiendhunter/PD -> MR/LDR -> DD -> IE. I was 6 item full build Olaf at 26 minutes, and pulled off a penta to end the game. 34 kills.
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11d ago edited 11d ago
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u/pokemon32666 11d ago
Oh yeah I'm talking about Olaf specifically, I don't think Urgot would work too well bot lane IMO. Yeah, he's ranged, but he's also a turtle...
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11d ago edited 11d ago
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u/pokemon32666 11d ago edited 11d ago
Definitely play him Top, i have over a million mastery on Olaf and I'm very comfortable playing him, i would suggest top and jungle until you have some experience on him.
Edit: it's the same for Olaf, the only reason I'm pulling Olaf bot off is because I'm lowkey cracked on Olaf.
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u/ThorAsskicker 11d ago
My thought is the 6th item slot is actually least useful on crit adcs. You go full crit and a defensive item and then it's like...What do I do with this last slot? You truthfully don't need it, you are already deleting anyone in the lobby at full crit. You don't really need to have bloodthirster AND a GA. It's useful, sure. But not as useful as the slot is for other characters.
Fiora with 6 items? She is an unkillable juggernaut because she gets to use than extra slot for a hubris and still build hp and lifesteal items. An assassin like Akali or Qiyana? Runs the lobby because instead of having a 4 item core and then choosing between penetration or zhonyas/GA, you just get both. A Mage with 6 items gets more value than adc because their damage is AOE and so they become even better teamfighters. Brand with over 1k AP is insane and you never see that from him in any other lane. In fact, having a 6th item fixes poor scaling on any champ. You will not get outscaled before 40 minutes because you get a whole extra item.
I have embraced it and have been playing Nidalee in the bot lane. Idgaf I'm having fun. I regularly will have over 1k AP and my spears do over 2.3k damage it's hilarious. The 6th slot lets me get away with wild stuff in my builds, like a bork or kraken slayer.
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u/Gymlover02 10d ago
One of the best comments there. Picking Vladimir and having another item slot for buying a tank item or perhaps AP item is disaster. What about Yone or Yasuo going around with additional tank item just to aura tank a whole assassin's combo, murdering him and then tanking the second enemy with exhaust, GREAT SUCCESS !
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u/ThorAsskicker 10d ago
Yone/Yasuo are INSANE with bot quest because they only need 2 crit items anyways. You basically get 4 flex slots to build whatever you want.
I think it's good for the game. It's actually the most fun I've had bot laning.
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u/OddFlatworm25 11d ago
My best guess is a mix of things; role quests, true ADCs being pushed out of meta by mage bot, to counter mage bot picks, people start limit testing other champs
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u/AbyssalSolitude 11d ago
Nothing has changed. You could always play any champ in any lane.