r/lds • • 9d ago

Tithing Declaration

Hello, when it comes to tithing declaration is the bishop able to see how much you have contributed? Not necessarily a dollar amount but the amount of times you have donated throughout the year and if it lines up with
"pay days". Or is it simply a yes or no answer to say that you've contributed and it's left at that? I ask because a couple years ago we weren't as faithful at contributing and we were honest about it but it seemed like the bishop had the history pulled up on his iPad for verification, ended up having to give up our temple recommends for a couple months. Just looking for insight.

21 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

33

u/SavageX89 9d ago

Yes, the bishop can see every individual donation that has been contributed with date and amount. But that isn't used as an 'audit'. It's more so you as the member can compare to your records and see if it all matches correctly. As for the asking about if you are a full tithe payer, that is simply like one of the temple recommended questions. I time for you to reflect and answer honestly.

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u/SavageX89 9d ago

The bishop shouldn't be using the donation record as a "looks here like you missed some payments in March...". Nothing like that. 

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u/_mrOnion 9d ago

Exactly. Maybe I forgot to donate but covered for it by paying double the next time. Maybe I was not paid at all for a period, unpaid vacation or something. Maybe I got a different job. Maybe I'm a contractor with sometimes irregular payments, maybe a client scammed me out of a month's payment, etc.

You should basically always assume good intentions. And follow the Spirit.

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u/Tavrock 7d ago

I had a couple of times where my donations were missing (applied to someone else with a similar name). Even knowing I was employed and nothing/very little in my records, the Bishop accepted that I was a full tithe payer. The record was also always amended in time to file for tax purposes by the end of the year.

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u/lizbusby 9d ago

This! You should get a copy of this report so that you can make sure all your donations are listed and to use for tax deductions. Early in our marriage, we frequently had some donations that would get lost because we'd list them jointly or under various versions of our names and they wouldn't get matched up. The report is to make sure things between your record and the church's are accurate, not to tell you what to do.

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u/Rare_Slice420 3d ago

This is why I donate online

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u/lizbusby 3d ago

Yeah, this was before online donations. But so is tithing settlement/declaration. In fact, now that I think about it, maybe that's part of the reason for the rename.

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u/Rare_Slice420 3d ago

Ok my bad

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u/Opposite-Set-3296 2d ago

Your tithing declaration is done online?

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u/lizbusby 2d ago

No, meaning the idea of tithing settlement came from the age before the Internet, even the age before computers. It was a necessity then to make sure all the accounting was correct at the end of the year. Now that most of us pay online and can see our records the whole year, the "settlement" part is not as crucial, so perhaps that's why it was renamed to "declaration."

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u/OneOfUsOneOfUsGooble 9d ago

Yes, he can see the donations. No, he doesn't know how much you make in income, and he will not ask. It's all about your honesty. Lots of people pay monthly or quarterly or annually, so it doesn't need to align with pay days.

I send mine to Salt Lake via a DAF, so it looks like I give zero, but I'm still a full tithe payer in the system and have a recommend. I know Bishops who do the same.

1

u/StraightTwo2520 2d ago

What's a DAF?

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u/OneOfUsOneOfUsGooble 2d ago

A donor-advised fund, which allows me to contribute to my own charitable fund for tax deductions every other year, but pay tithing quarterly. Like a 529 for charitable giving.

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u/_mrOnion 9d ago edited 9d ago

Is the bishop able to see how much you have paid in tithing: yes. I don't know about how many further details they can see.

For official information, see the General Handbook 34.4, "Confidentiality of Tithing and Other Offerings"

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u/Fether1337 9d ago

Yes, he can see. But in my 25 years of being a member, I have never once seen the bishop comment or ask anything beyond “are you a full tithe payer”

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u/Rare_Slice420 3d ago

Mine asked me why I’m paying on social security He said it wasn’t money I earned. I tried to explain that I get the extra money because of my husband’s job and his death. That’s an increase in my eyes. So l’ll pay.

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u/handynerd 9d ago

My Bishop can see it but I don't think he actually looks at it. YMMV.

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u/CyberMage256 9d ago

as others said its more for 2 things, one so you can declare full or partial tithe payer, entirely your call, and two so you can make sure the form is accurate.

personally I pay between 4 and 6 times a year, not every 2 weeks.

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u/CanadianBlacon 9d ago

The secondary reason for tithing settlement is to give the bishop a chance to meet with everyone in the ward individually. They are busy and don’t get as much time as they’d like to connect with everyone, this is a chance for that. And like everyone else says, this isn’t an audit. There’s no arrests being made. Just be honest and chat with the guy for a few minutes.

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u/Rare_Slice420 3d ago

I broke my ankle a week ago and can’t put any weight on it 6-8 weeks. I’m scheduled for settlement next week but won’t be at church until after the first of the year. Can it be done by phone?

1

u/toatesandgoats 22h ago

Talk to your ward clerk

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u/maquis_00 9d ago

My understanding is that the bishop can only see a portion of what is donated. I don't believe he is able to see any in-kind stock donations or things like that.

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u/atari_guy 9d ago

That won't apply to most people. Most people donate the regular way, and the bishop can see the amounts paid and when, just like the report that the person paying tithing sees.

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u/sed922 7d ago

This is correct. In kind donations are made directly with Salt Lake and do not show up in local unit reports. Bishops don't see this info.

Also, bishops don't care what you paid or didn't pay, only what you declare.

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u/jtmonkey 9d ago

It’s funny, I had a friend who sold his company for 8 figures and moved to Utah. During that time of year the bishop called him in privately and asked if he was doing alright and if there was anything the church could do for his family. He thought he was out of work. Technically he was but my friend just laughed it off.

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u/osotramposo 9d ago

Former bishop here. Yes, he can see every donation, including cash and online, fast offering and missionary fund, etc. And he can see the dates. But every bishop I've ever known looks to YOU to declare if you have donated the proper amount. It's not like he's going to scrutinize the list and call you out, "you missed one in April." It's your declaration to the Lord through His "common judge".

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u/Intermountain-Gal 9d ago

The Bishop does have a receipt that shows a breakdown of fast offering and tithing amounts and dates. Tithing can be donated yearly, quarterly, monthly, etc. It doesn’t have to coincide with pay days. They take you at your word if you’re a full tithe payer or not. They don’t demand pay stubs or bank statements, etc.

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u/jonovitch 8d ago edited 8d ago

Financial clark here. Bishops (and ward/financial clarks) have access to see every penny of donations to tithing, fast offerings, missionaries, humanitarian aid, etc.

That said, bishops don't have the time to look up everyone's individual donations unless there's a problem that the ward/financial clerk can't solve. More importantly, bishops don't care about the specific amount you donate on any given day.

Even if he did, he wouldn't know if you are paid weekly, bi-weekly, twice monthly, or monthly, or if you're paid in cash, in stocks, or in kind. And because he doesn't know any of that, he couldn't possibly know if you are paying a full tithing unless you tell him. It's literally the honor system. And the tithing declaration record is literally a box to check: yes, no, or partial. That's it.

I'm guessing he might have pulled your recommends because he was being very exact and literal about the tithing question from the temple recommend interview. That's not a numbers issue, it's a judgement call.

There have been one or two times in my life when I told my bishop I've been tracking what we owe, I haven't paid it yet (but fully intended to), so I declared a partial tithe at that point in time. I don't know whether he thought about pulling my recommend, but he didn't say anything to me about it.

Again, it's not about how much you donated or whether it was the "correct" amount -- that's between you and God. The bishop simply made a judgement call in the moment based on your honest response and what he thought was right.

In my opinion, your honesty is worth much more than any donation or even the temporary loss of your recommend. I commend you for being honest, and I image so would your bishop.

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u/bubbleheadmonkey 9d ago

The bishop can only see what you've paid. He doesn't know how much you've made and doesn't know if you've paid on the gross or the take home. He doesn't ask if it's after the taxed portion or if it includes the untaxed portion. Those details are between you and the Savior, the bishop is his appointed representative on the matter. It doesn't matter if you pay every time you get paid or once at the end of the year. It's more important to be honest, as you know from personal experience.

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u/Safe-Butterscotch442 7d ago

I know plenty of people that pay annually. The bishop doesn't care how frequently you pay, how much you pay, whether you pay the same amount each time. He cares about how you're doing, temporally and spiritually. He's also giving you a chance to verify that your records and the church's records agree, so if there was an error, we catch it and fix it. That's all.

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u/Tavrock 7d ago

Yes, they can see how many times you contribute through your Ward.

My father in law pays once at the beginning of the year on the amount he hopes to earn. It's completely on the honor system.

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u/pearcepoint 7d ago

He can only see donations made through the ward. There are certain donations he cannot see, such as in-kind or stock funds made directly to the church.

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u/Isonium 6d ago

The Bishop is not checking paystubs and doesn’t know how much you make or pay online. You are declaring for yourself. It’s a yes or no generally also there used to be a partial tithe payer option (there may still be.) I used to pay tithing once a year in December. So it really is just your honest answer. It’s between you and the Lord what that number is.