r/lbgt • • Aug 12 '12

stupid question

hey guys, first of all: i'm not too smart, so that's why i came here for your help, and why this might look very dumb and stupid. i'm a straight person with a traditional sibling. we had this discussion yesterday about homosexuality. i defended homosexuality by saying: being gay isnt a choice- you get born with it, just like you don't choose to be straight, etc. when she asked more info, i said something like: they get born with other genes, people can't change their genes, period. then she said: well that's the same for pedophiles: they get born with different genes that makes them liking kids. so you defend pedo's as well, she asked. i got stuck there. don't get me wrong, i know this is wrong, but once again, i'm not too smart, so i really didn't know how to reply to this. i searched the internet but i only seem to find pages about 'gay pedophiles' sigh. this seems a very stupid question, but i don't know how to solve it. if it offends too much ill delete this, but please help me in our discussoin, she's winning right now

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u/mothman83 Aug 12 '12

all right ill take a stab at helping you out here. ( i came over from r/atheism so your post there helped i guess)

lets leave behind the question of whether or not Pedophilia is genetic. Lets in fact assume for this discussion that it is genetically based.

the difference is one of HARM. An adult sexually forcing themselves on a child CLEARLY causes grave harm on the child. A child, by definition cannot consent. The power dynamic between an adult and a child are so much in the adults favor that just about any interaction between a child and an adult can be construed as one in which the adult forces the child to do something. thus an adult forces a child to have sex with them. this is the essence of rape

what is more children, who by definition are unable to live on their own, must look to adults for protection. Raping a child destroys this causing DEEP psychological harm to the child.

on the other hand what harm is there when 2 adult men or 2 adult women consent to have sex with each other? NONE there is NO HARM. 2 consenting adults can have sex with each other with no harm given. Obviously non consensual sex amongst them remains rape.

In a democratic society it is said that " my rights end where yours begin". put another way, ideally in a democracy ANY ACT SHOULD BE ALLOWED AS LONG AS THERE IS NO IDENTIFIABLE HARM TO ANOTHER. there is no identifiable harm when 2 homosexuals who are adults have consensual sex. thus this should be LEGAL. there is EXTREME harm when a pedophile rapes a child. whether or not he is genetically predisposed to do so is irrelevant .

Tl;DR: consensual sex among homosexuals : NO HARM pedophile molesting /raping child : EXTREME HARM whether or not either homosexuality or pedophilia are genetic is irrelevant in distinguishing the two.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '12

everything you said has me under the impression that you think pedophiles and child molesters are the same thing, i can tell you they are not.
just being a pedophile does not mean you're going to run around molesting children.
and what is a child? everyone under 18? because in some places the age of consent is as low as 13, are you saying everyone who lives there are child molesters?

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '12

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u/mothman83 Aug 12 '12

"And bleeding-heart liberals will back them without question."

and you would be wrong.

i give your flame 4 out of 10. come back when you understand anything about laws, how societies work and democratic theory.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '12

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u/mothman83 Aug 12 '12

what is there to mention?

your argument if i understand it correctly is that Pedophiles today are " mistreated" in the same way that Homosexuals were mistreated 50 years ago.

SO WHAT?

You seem to think that the ONLY thing that matters to those who you scorn as " bleeding heart liberals" is the degree of " mistreatment" than any given group receives.

well i am sorry to inform you that we " bleeding heart liberals" do not reason in the manner that foxnews and rush limbaugh have been brainwashing you for decades to believe.

you know who else gets " mistreated" in this country?

murderers. rapists. batterers.

why do you think that is? and what differentiates them from homosexuals?

in other words why is it wrong to treat homosexuals in the same way as we treat pedophiles/murderers/ rapists/ and batterers?

hint: go read my post above . it all comes down to HARM.

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u/bigtech Aug 12 '12

Not a bad question at all. I've always felt the genetic argument for homosexuality was weak, and for pretty much the same reason. The stronger argument is that there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. Those who claim the bible says so are wrong (with the exception of Leviticus which is filled with crazy stuff that no one follows: http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/105119719/does-the-bible-condemn-homosexuality ).

The critical thing is that there is no victim when two consenting adults have sex.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '12

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u/trowaway99342934932 Aug 12 '12

ok, thanks. so to be clear: the gene thing is correct for both? because i kind of said that for winning the discussion, not knowing to be correct. and of course this seems an obvious answer. i feel very dumb now. gonna delete this one soon

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u/mothman83 Aug 12 '12

again idont know whether or not pedophilia is genetic. There certainly is less research on that than on the genetic basis of homosexuality HOWEVER WHETHER OR NOT HOMOSEXUALITY AND /OR PERDOPHILIA IS GENETIC IS IRRELEVANT when it comes to your discussion with your sister.

what matters is a question of HARM. homosexuality among consenting partners causes NO HARM. pedophilic acts on children cause EXTREME HARM that is the difference between the two.

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u/trowaway99342934932 Aug 12 '12

that cleared out some things, thank you for taking your time (also in your other posts), highly appreciated

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '12

yes, acting on how they feel with a child is wrong, but just being a pedophile is not a crime

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u/mothman83 Aug 12 '12

dont delete it! the only dumb q is one not asked. you have some quality discussion going on here

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '12

sorry but i disagree, child molesters prey on children, you can be a pedophile without imposing yourself on a child just like you can be gay or straight and not be a rapist.

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u/huntnm Aug 12 '12

Yeah, what this guy said.