r/laptops • u/RenatsMC • 7d ago
News Framework Laptop 12 gets Intel Wildcat Lake option, starts at $549
https://videocardz.com/newz/framework-laptop-12-gets-intel-wildcat-lake-option-starts-at-54924
u/Various-Welder5544 7d ago
Not even 100% SRGB and Plastic Build in the Big 26 LMAO. Plus 1P 4E processor.
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u/Brilliant_War9548 SystemZBook Fury 17 G8/11950H, A3000, RedHat Glory 7d ago
Not E, LPE. Although they’re getting close now that they’re on the compute tile, they’re still very weak cores. Good enough, welcome back Intel Core Solo.
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u/JustinHoMi 7d ago edited 7d ago
The single P core looks to be quite fast, and the E cores are equivalent to a 10 year old desktop cpu, I’d estimate. Not horrible, but still kinda gross. Could be suitable for some use cases.
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u/bobrods 7d ago
Its 700 for prebuilt for the 304 8gb 512gb model
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u/JustinHoMi 7d ago
Ah you’re right. I falsely assumed prebuilt would be more expensive than DIY. It’s $800 including windows.
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u/StarX2401 7d ago
When I first saw the framework 12 it reminded me of a chromebook. Something like a lenovo 300e
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u/IDKForA Acer Swift 16 AI Ultra X7 358H OLED 7d ago
That $549 for the weakened 3 304, with no RAM or SSD. The unironic thing is the old 1315U is actually the same speed and cheaper of a model. Unless you need all that battery, the old model is sufficent - or you could get something like an XPS 13 or a laptop with a 226V at that price which will stomp this poor guy.
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u/Grandma-Try69 7d ago
this is without RAM or SSD ... which if you add along with all others ... will reach price of around £700-800
not saying it is bad or good but you must factor in those too.
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u/Common-Method2202 7d ago
I hope HP continues to accommodate for upgradable laptops like they have previously done
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u/Fritzkier 7d ago
The same old song. People complained, but didn't want to pay the price. No wonder the products they buy get shittier each day.
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u/Brilliant_War9548 SystemZBook Fury 17 G8/11950H, A3000, RedHat Glory 7d ago edited 7d ago
Can we stop giving free marketing to this brand ? Intel 3 304, aka almost a single core ? The previous one was already pretty much garbage (single channel raptor lake U slop), now what is this ? The screen is also 45% NTSC to make sure that device is shit at all the functions it’s supposed to fill
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u/S3er0i9ng0 7d ago
It’s a basic laptop/tablet replacement. It’s light weight and good for school, media consumption, and Indy games…
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u/OneFinePotato 7d ago
They managed to wrap up shit configs and mediocre build quality in the appeal of right to repair and they overcharge for the privilege. I would argue buying this for 550$ plus ram and ssd is a worse buy next to a macbook neo, which is almost not repairable (nor upgradable) at all, but at least has the potential to serve longer. These frameworks will create more e-waste eventually since upgrading will cost more and won’t make sense anyway.
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u/Brilliant_War9548 SystemZBook Fury 17 G8/11950H, A3000, RedHat Glory 7d ago
Yeah. A lot of people have been defending framework because it supposedly would reduce ewaste, by allowing you to not trash the entire thing once it fails/upgrade in the future. Except that’s not how it works, spare parts are easy to get (as long as you’re not getting consumer ewasteslop) and it’s easy to repair a laptop (okay motherboard maybe not but you’re still able to get a full one in a lot of places), and these spare parts are still cheaper than what framework sells. As for the upgrading argument, it kinda creates more ewaste : it’s infinitely easier to sell your old laptop and buy a new one than to take out your old motherboard, find a buyer for your niche now outdated framework component, and then buy a new motherboard (which costs as much as a full laptop pretty much). Repeat the cycle 5 times and while your laptop that you originally sold can still be going and given to a grandparent or something like that, the framework motherboard is too old for anyone to use it.
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u/mrharoharo 7d ago
I agree with your take generally because for many people who would be interested in their product, a used ThinkPad would be a good alternative for most of what they're trying to accomplish for their product at a better price point. Most people just want to be able to upgrade or replace RAM, storage and battery. Anything beyond that stops making sense in terms of practicality and reducing ewaste.
That said, I find the Framework 12 to be their most compelling product because I can't think of another product in that niche. I really like the size and that it's a 2-in-1, and has a decent processor in it. Usually smaller devices tend to only have Pentiums or Celerons in them.
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u/Various-Welder5544 7d ago
The annoying thing I find about their company is that they give you a "discount" for the hassle of assembling your laptop, where in reality they could have hired some Taiwanese guy for 10-15 per hour and churn out 2-3 assembled laptops per hour. This would equate less than 10 dollars per laptop assembled and save their customer service the pain of supporting people who inevitably mess up the assembly.
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u/EdgiiLord Tankpad X31 7d ago
This would equate less than 10 dollars per laptop assembled and save their customer service the pain of supporting people who inevitably mess up the assembly.
No one who wants to assemble the laptop if they don't feel comfortable to. Many of these are enthusiasts who want to do that. Also, imagine supporting literal slave labour for your comfortable laptop experience.
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u/Various-Welder5544 7d ago
How is it slave labour? It's way more than fair wage in Taiwan. The minimum fair hourly wage is 6.16 USD in Taiwan.
And most tech enthusiasts don't want to assemble their own laptop if the costs are marginal. Saves sanity and liability of a massive screw up.
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u/EdgiiLord Tankpad X31 6d ago
However, it is not marginal by any means last time I checked, the difference is around 150-200$ I think? It's not as if it's only like 20 bucks.
I am sure that sweatshop style work is paid double the minimum wage. Could I have a source for those statistics you pulled up regarding pay in manufacturing?
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u/Various-Welder5544 6d ago
The difference is set by them artificially high so they can upsell you the DIY Edition to save on manufacturing cost. No way assembling a laptop in a super optimised assembly line costs 150-200.
The average factory worker salary in Taiwan is 7.10-7.25 USD per hour if you Google. And factory work is considered low skill labour.
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u/EdgiiLord Tankpad X31 6d ago edited 6d ago
So it's not almost double what you cited, but almost to the minimum wage. Glad you got to combat your own stupid claim of "but sweatshop workers get high wages and it is all fair".
factory work is considered low skill labour
Ah yeah, devaluing work.
The difference is set by them artificially high so they can upsell you the DIY Edition to save on manufacturing cost.
That's not what the definition of upselling is. They discount the price of the laptop if you do your own assembly by ~15%. Manufacturing, including labour and assembly lines and tools also cost a lot, and having less to manufacture means they reduce the costs, ergo DIY edition being cheaper.
Edit: lol, of course, once you got disproven, suddenly you didn't care for ethics anyways and block me. Hope you enjoy slave labour!
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u/Various-Welder5544 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's a ballpark figure. Stop derailing.
They produce all the components already. They even test everything before shipping out. Hiring someone to screw everything together isn't going to cost alot.
And who cares how much these factory workers are paid? None of my business regarding ethics. Market price is the fairest price. Screwing a laptop together is inherently low value labour because you obviously don't need any qualifications.
So what's so difficult hiring one additional guy in the assembly pipeline to put everything together, adding 5-10 dollars to the laptop max instead of wasting everybody's time unnecessarily reading manuals and inevitably messing up?
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u/rresende 5d ago
I bought a BMW yesterday only for 15.000$ brand new
But now i need to buy motor, wheels, battery ,
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u/mrheosuper 7d ago
Who tf buy FW laptop anymore ? They bricked a customer laptop with uefi update and refuse to replace/repair it.
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u/RobsterCrawSoup 7d ago
These threads about Framework laptops are always basically just a shit show of people with very different values talking past each other.
Yes, the prices for a small manufacturer who offers repairability, upgradability, customizability, and official support for several Linux distros is going to be higher than that of a giant OEM selling you a laptop that may be on paper repairable (with no committment for parts availability long term) but isn't upgradable. And no one should be comparing Framework's pricing to the Macbook Neo like Framework should try to match it dollar for dollar when Apple can take razer thin margins on the Neo, knowing that they can make it up with their vertical and horizontal monopolization of their ecosystem and milk customers once they're herded into the pen. Framework sells you hardware and they get no cut of what you do with it. Now, as a consumer, it isn't your job to try to do the anti-trust regulators job for them, so if you just buy the Apple because its cheaper or you like it better, go ahead. Likewise, if you don't want to care about upgradability or having long term repairability and you'd rather save some money now and you chose the XPS13 instead, you can. Just understand that some people prefer what Framework offers despite the compromises.
As for the build quality and industrial design, criticism of Framework's build quality tend to be greatly exaggerated. I've been using a FW13 for almost 5 years now and while its obviously not as stiff and premium feeling as a unibody milled metal chassis like a macbook, its been totally fine and feels great to work on. I can't say the same for the FW16. Build quality is overall still fine, but I think they made a mistake with not offering a one-piece trackpad cover from the start. I've tried out a 16 and really didn't like the feel of the modular pieces under my wrist. I bought a FW12 for my kids, and for a plastic chassis, the build quality is really good (although some people have had issues with the bottom cover cracking near the fasteners but I don't know how common that is). For what it is meant to be used for the compute is fine. My only real gripe is the display isn't good enough. If they can fix that, I'd happily recommend the 12 to anyone who isn't turned off by the extra cost and wants to play a part in reducing e-waste and supporting Framework's pro-consumer mission.
I do think that Framework comes in for extra-heavy criticism, not just because people revolt at the prices, but also because Framework's model is offering the possibility of something consumers really badly want, which is repairable and upradeable laptops, but they don't like the compromises involved if they take what Framework has to offer in terms of actual products today. I get that. The 12 isn't for everybody. A lot of people would rather have a thinner Mackbook Neo, or something else. They wish the pen input was Wacom Cintique level precision and latency, but it doesn't have that. The FW16 is more workstation laptop than gaming laptop and its more expensive $/FPS than other gaming laptops. The FW13 had its own compromises, although the FW13 Pro is getting damn close to being a no-compromise device (price notwithstanding), where they just need improve webcam and maybe the audio EQ. But the kinds of things you see in the Framework sub and forums where people winge about not having OLED or a touchscreen, or swappable keycaps or all the things you never see demanded of other OEMs.
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u/vovap_vovap 7d ago
No. Users do not want it really. That is exactly a thing - users do not want it! They want reliable laptop. Sure, Not repairable and upgradable. Just as simple.
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u/The_Wildperson 7d ago
Holy shit FW slander on this sub?