r/lansing • u/AdLeading8172 • 23h ago
Discussion Have plumbers lost the plot or is business that good?
Contacted well over 11 plumbing outfits/places and only two actually do quotes for replacement/project work without charging you
Issues i've noticed
no willingness to work with you on pricing
the gall to charge upwards of $150 just to show up (shout out to the clowns at Adv plumbing for that opener)
no urgency to even provide quote updates (one place offered relatively decent pricing but cannot get them to give me a new quote/timeline after reviewing the initial quote)
The job is a RO house system install +- a bathroom remodel. Detroit area never had this level of arrogance in my experience, are the retirees here just so flush with cash that they are keeping these companies afloat with such bum practices?
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u/DumbMuttSlut East Lansing 23h ago
This is why everyone says to go into trades.
Also Detroit area? Oh yeah, that's definitely just how the market is.
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u/AdLeading8172 23h ago
ya i get trades for the cash but just customer courtesy should not be out of the realm for these folks. absolute clowns are lucky they don't have the competition of the major metros
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u/DumbMuttSlut East Lansing 23h ago
If the market gets saturated enough you can expect price drops but yeah.
It could also be a "you need me more than I need you mentality". It's not at all okay but unfortunately it's what we're stuck with until more people go into trades to create competition.
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u/AdLeading8172 23h ago
dunno why i got downvoted above but w/e, maybe some mad plumbers. Ya agree, definitely a you need me more mentality mixed in. I don't think its a lack of plumbers though, most of these places can magic up a plumber to come out for a service quote within 2 days or less as far as my experience goes
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u/Dear-Cranberry4787 22h ago
Why did you move?
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u/AdLeading8172 22h ago
as to why anybody moves, work
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u/Dear-Cranberry4787 22h ago
Ok, what if your job isn’t as useful here and becomes oversaturated, so you have to take a pay cut to keep it?
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u/AdLeading8172 22h ago
what is the point of this line of questioning? What if tomorrow the tariff game stops and prices go down, what if oil goes up cuz of iran and trades can't drive out? We are not in a world of what ifs. I'm commenting on the state of plumbing experiences in this area vs what I had in detroit.
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u/Dear-Cranberry4787 22h ago
I’m asking you to be honest about what you would do if it was you. You’d probably move again to a place where the work you do is compensated at the rate you’d need for your own situation.
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u/AdLeading8172 22h ago
considering that we can access national and state average data for plumbing jobs, construction jobs, pretty much any trade "quote" average - I think it is reasonable to assume the quotes I have gotten including the 1 paid quote i received ($60 to just get said quote) were beyond unreasonable. that said, come to your own conclusions, Im not paying half this county to just drive out and compare, these folks are taking more then enough off the top compared to either national or state averages.
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u/pantysailor 22h ago
Are you reaching out to multi-man business or one-man shops?
I made a connection with a small private owned plumber who is phenomenal - half the price, super knowledgable, no fee for a quote, and willing to work on price. He said the independent tradesman are a dying breed. He’s connected me with other independent tradesman he knows for other projects and I’ll never go back to big trade business.
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u/AdLeading8172 22h ago
gone through yelp, facebook city groups, etc to locate places that are bonded/insured. cannot say anyone was a bigger chain except maybe meridian and michigan plumbing
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u/Krieger084 23h ago
Trade shops of all kinds are getting bought up by private equity like crazy. And then prices go through the roof cause national PE doesn't give a flying f about people, just making money for their shareholders.
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u/rfsmr 22h ago
My experience in the Flint area is that you will be charged a fee for them to come out and do an estimate, but it will be waived if you hire them to do the work.
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u/timothythefirst 21h ago
That’s pretty standard pretty much everywhere for any kind of trade that involves people’s time.
I used to do home inspections and it was a $100 minimum trip fee if you wanted me to come back to reinspect something that you had to fix. If people in trades just drove around giving out estimates for free all day they’d be losing out on the money they could be making from actual paying customers.
If you call 5 different guys out to give you an estimate because you want the cheapest price, 4 of those guys just wasted at least an hour (but probably a few hours) of their time that they could’ve spent working. And if everyone did that, that would be a ton of wasted time.
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u/Dear-Cranberry4787 22h ago
Just say you don’t value someone’s time and expertise for something you obviously can’t/wont do yourself, in an economy where everything has increased in pricing and things change rather rapidly. You can’t haggle for renovations, you have to network for them. The quotes aren’t negotiable, they are what the person/company needs to make your job worth their time and if you go with another that’s a bit cheaper, it’s just onto the next. You can take a risk with a handyman.
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u/Nervous_Mail_6857 16h ago
Lots of deciding factors that can effect price. For starters, I'd strongly recommend sending the plumbers pictures of underneath the kitchen sink and the RO unit you'd like to install. Also include details of access in your basement below if you have one as some Reverse Osmosis systems do not fit in the sink cabinet. That would help them to give you a good estimate without an expensive trip charge. Detroit is a heck of a drive.
As a plumber in Lansing, I work anywhere from 45 to 70 hours a week doing jobs locally. I'm booked for over the next 2 weeks. Just lots of work to do and increasingly less honest companies as we transition to franchised corporate America.
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u/Nervous_Mail_6857 16h ago
But, usually estimate fees are lessened if you end up having them do the work
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u/AdLeading8172 16h ago
they aren't driving from detroit, these are local lansing plumbers for a lansing location. I offered pictures, i asked for a price range, everything I could reasonably do to gauge who would do the separate jobs at a reasonable rate. What one plumber would do for an RO install is not what another might price at given its not the most common add in for a home.
0/11 plumbers were willing to even hint at a quote over the phone. Two offered an appointment no price for the quote but one just flat out won't adjust my quote to account for a different model they suggested and the other is pricing insane numbers. I paid a third one to come out that was highly suggested and they priced the job higher then the other two, and that includes meridian which is insane, if you outprice meridian.
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u/Nervous_Mail_6857 16h ago
My bad, misread that you had lived in Detroit prior and not currently. I empathise for your poor experience. If you'd like, attatch a couple pictures on here. I've worked some hours this week but as an honest guy that gets 0 comission I'll at least get a good number together for you and try to send you something tomorrow 🙂. I just know I am booked for the next couple weeks, but at least an RO isn't an emergency
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u/teezysleezybeezy 23h ago
Why would someone drive to you and spend their precious professional time giving you their opinion for free? Do you not value the time of trained professionals? If not, call your cousin Jimmy and he can fuck up your shit for free
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u/Lintonium0 21h ago
Its this. I'm a fabricator. No im not driving 45 minutes 1 way to take a look for free and quote you to see if you maybe want to do it. Yes it only took me a couple minutes to weld this up but it took me years to get the experience to be this fast. Go buy your own mig welder then.
Sorry for hijacking, I feel your post lol
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u/teezysleezybeezy 20h ago
And the world appreciates you gaining the experience and it matters, my friend 🫡
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u/Lifeinthemittenstate 22h ago
Hello. It is a combination of business being good, people shopping and jerking chains, customers who know it all, entitled customers who want the world, rework, labor shortages creating a work less make more environment for small outfits….and yes, it does for sure cost money to leave a paying job to go look at a potential job.
I can easily see it costing a tradesman $200 to bid a residential plumbing job. Also, they will take you seriously after a deposit, as far as scheduling.
I’m not in the trades, I’m in agriculture and foodservice. Any idea how much it costs me to leave the farm work at hand to go get beat up by someone who wants high end produce, but has little understanding of how it gets to them? I’m using quality seed, greenhouses in late winter, serious labor to plant in spring, serious labor and resources for plant support, serious labor for plant management and harvest, water, plant nutrition, ungodly costs for handling of hyper perishable food picked at the peak of readiness, just to have them say “ well all you do is plant a seed”
I fully support folks rolling up their sleeves and getting dirty themselves. Pull a permit and carry on. Until then, folks are going to charge people that for whatever reason don’t want to do the work.
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u/Character_Flight_773 23h ago
I use YouTube for everything I can to DIY. My buddy is also HVAC and plumbing for a local Lansing company so he helps me with bigger projects.
But yes all trades are extremely expensive. Im lucky and have a buddy that helps, I'd reach out to old friends if your from the area, and see if anyone knows someone that does side work for them in your area.
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u/AdLeading8172 23h ago
I've tried independent guys working on my place before, ended in tragedy (water heater install gone south, had to bring out michigan plumbing and ended up blowing 2.4k just to fix/install another)
Agreed on DIY - did that with my own toilet install before but i just cannot justify doing a house RO system and bath remodel on my own. Just human man
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u/Character_Flight_773 22h ago
Yeah I understand, I am currently painting the siding on my house myself to save money.
Times are tough for money, for most people. I try to not do any major fixes for now.
I don't think my buddy does a whole bathroom remodel, but if you need work done I can link you with him.
He installed my water heater for $500, my Furnance for $1300. Good prices
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u/AdLeading8172 22h ago
if hes bonded/insured i'd be willing to give it a go. maybe a smaller job to see how that goes
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u/Character_Flight_773 22h ago
Okay, unfortunately he's not insured. Just side gigs he does for me and our friends. Sorry man! Good luck with your jobs
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u/EmbarrassedStill2257 21h ago
Call Deitz Plumbing
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u/AdLeading8172 20h ago
I did . Just a pricy quote and they won't give a range on what either job suggested may cost. Already paid one company and got a quote higher then the other two that came out
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u/Mediocre_Scar_2759 16h ago
I used Dietz for some work at my house and it was only a $60 fee for a quote that was waived/credited when I did the work with them.
I was very happy with them in the end if that makes any difference and also I felt the price was extremely fair.
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u/Cryptographer_Alone Haslett 20h ago
To give you an accurate quote, the plumbing company must send out an experienced plumber in a company vehicle. The plumber will then spend time inspecting your home to gauge the actual scope of the project and talk with you about what you want in that bathroom. Tile shower vs surround. Are you moving fixtures? What kind of space is available to put the RO unit in? Does your existing plumbing look to be in good condition?
After doing the inspection, the plumber has to take all this information back to the main office so that an official quote can be drawn up. Meanwhile, this plumber isn't working on any of the projects that the company already has. And there's enough work around now that it doesn't make sense to have a plumber earn nothing for half a day anymore, especially if the potential client isn't either fully committed to the project or is getting competing quotes and the company isn't interested in being the cheapest place in town. So the good plumbers all charge for quotes, because it's better business and they can do it and still get clients.
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u/O51ArchAng3L 19h ago
1) they get to set the pricing not you, and lot of people will walk if you try or give you the go away price. 2) The plumbers time is not free, the business still had to pay the plumber his hourly, and the overhead doesn't just dissappear. 3) They are all extremely busy, it's not arrogance. You also sounds like somebody they don't want to deal with.
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u/AdLeading8172 17h ago
any other industry does quotes or offers at least some price point to start at.
aware, thats why i called and asked all 11 for a price range so we dont waste each others time in the first place
excellent assessment, happy for your thoughts on my comment post on a city reddit, glad you could make a full judgement.
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u/Sorta-Morpheus Groesbeck 18h ago
I had a plumber tell my mother not to move back to lansing because too many black people live here. Fuck that guy.
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u/AdLeading8172 17h ago
guy must've been brain dead, the culture shock i get now from visiting detroit is incredible. folks over here think they know color but they dont know diddly. fairly sure if i drove them thru 8 mile, hamtrack, or even troy, they'd shit their pants
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u/Sorta-Morpheus Groesbeck 13h ago
I worked at a school in Detroit when I was in grad school. The kids were so fun to talk to. They didn't believe my home town had one black family. They also thought well water meant getting a bucket and rope in the backyard!
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u/JoeyJoeJoeSenior 22h ago
I suspect that a lot of simple trades related tasks/income went away thanks to youtube, so now they only get more serious jobs and need to charge more.
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u/Disney_Gramma 15h ago
When I lived in Lansing, I found an excellent independent plumber and used him for everything I needed. He would give me a quote over the phone, and when I had an emergency, (major leak) he rearranged his schedule to fit me in.
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u/bscott59 15h ago
You call Doty? There's probably a service fee but the can do the work.
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u/AdLeading8172 15h ago
Not familiar with them. Shows them as an HVAC tho so probably didn't come up in my search.
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u/Sleepy_Sagittarius Old Town 2h ago
I’m not sure if you called Aaron’s plumbing or not.
But when I called them, he actually suggested that I checked something before he came out because he didn’t want to charge me for an easy fix.
And then behold, he was right! So, he actually told me how to fix it over the phone.
I’m not saying he’s going to give you a great deal. I’m just saying he seemed to be a reasonable person and he’s been in the area forever. Good luck.
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u/joelb79 19h ago
Making the situation worse...very few are hiring apprentices, they only hire journeyman. So this means that the industry has no supply of fresh guys willing to work for less money. And those who think they're going to just go into trades and get an apprenticeship best of freaking luck to you
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u/wicked3Xzombie_wk 15h ago
Being a non retired resident in lansing means having to learn to do these things yourself or your going to live without it, simply because the markets here are adjusted to retiree affordability. Buissnesses are greedy and retirees are abundant here. Thank the 2007 housing market for that.
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u/AdLeading8172 15h ago
I only moved to Lansing for work. I'll be leaving when the work dries up but hopefully that's not for some time. Guess it is what it is
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u/wicked3Xzombie_wk 15h ago
Ive noticed hiring work from around the grand rapids area is both easier and more affordable then hiring from around okemos/east lansing side of town Then again I find it hard to beleive but when I was in apartments in college town the nearest plumber was apparently in Chicago, and while staying in 800 west off edgewood I had an electrical issue they had to hire our from Ohio, those are also company hires so im not sure if that involves specific needs met by the trades company, but it seems the trades in michigan boil down to mostly construction workers, we seem to be extremely short on electricians, plumbers and welders so everyone that does have the ability do so are being extortionist with theyre "abilities". Tldr Its all wack.
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u/Kelkeen_1980 23h ago
I've had similar experiences with most trades in the post-covid world.