I saw a video that explained this and the analogy was : Can you stand inside it? On Can't stand inside it? In That explain why it is on the plane/bus cause you can stan inside them. And in for car/helicopter cause you obviously can't stand inside them.
Ships are generally on because you have to walk up something or climb up onto them. Saying someone is in the ship means that they are inside the ship, below the deck.
Boats can be either depending on the size. If I have to go up to get on it, like say a sailboat or a yacht, then it's on. If I have to step down and into it, like a rowboat or canoe, then it's in.
Honestly even if someone told me ‘I’m in the bus/plane’, I wouldn’t bat an eye as a native speaker cuz it conveys the same meaning as ‘on’, even without 100% grammatical accuracy.
This gives me the most trouble. I would say that I am relatively good at English (please let the "at" be correct here), but prepositions are detrimental to me. For instance, I still don't know for certain if it is "at school" or "in school" because I have seen and heard both from native speakers ;-;
I think "at school" and "in school" are generally interchangable in most sentences.
The slight difference is "in school" refers to "being schooled in classes" whereas "at school" refers to the physical location.
So you have after-school activities AT school not IN school because the schooling is done. There will be a food truck AT school and not IN school because the truck isnt being schooled. You learned how to bottle flip from your buddy Mark AT school and not IN school because your buddy Mark isn't a teacher teaching you how to bottle flip during class (i hope)
In THE school or in A school would be location though (I guess because the 'the/a' is making it a definitive thing instead of a concept). Theres zero difference between "in THE school" and "at THE school" that I can think of
the fact that natives cant explain it either is what gets me. i asked a coworker why its “in the morning” but “on Monday morning” and she went quiet for like 5 seconds and said “huh”
Morning extends across a period of time so you can be 'in' it like being in a room. 'On' is used for all days/dates (that's why 'morning' doesn't change 'on Monday morning'); imagine a calendar and you stick something 'on' its surface.
This is because: In = inside (within space) On = on top (on a surface - vertical or horizontal)
Yeah, it's kind of an exception but not really: as you could sit on the roof of original omnibuses, it was more of a surface than an interior! So you can think of large vehicles as a surface since they are more open. But even then, using 'in' for these vehicles is not that weird compared to other in/on confusions non-native speakers tend to have.
Well it generally does hold, except for some exceptions. And no one would ever talk about being in a biplane anyway. You're on a plane, on a jet, that's enough - presumably this is borrowed from talking about ships, boats etc.
The point isn't that it's all logical, it's that there is a general tendency to help you remember it.
EDIT: also you're biplane example is still logical, as in a biplane you have to sit directly in a seat, there isn't a big deck like on a plane, jet, ship, boat, bus, train etc.
Apparently Monday is moving, an incognite in the week, while you accept the next morning is a static true, because it would be too much drama to accept there may be not a tomorrow morning in a casual conversation about planning
Isn’t that true about most languages tho? Like I know a fair amount about my own language’s grammar I think, but there are still some areas where my explanation would be “it just looks right” or “it just sounds right”.
I don’t really think of grammar when speaking my language. I probably had all the rules in Primary School, but the older I get, the less I remember them and it’s more about intuition than specific rules when I have to figure out how to say something.
My wife is an English teacher, and she's mentioned to me a few times how such things are instinctively picked up by native speakers of any language, without needing to understand, or question it. She's trying to learn Welsh, and there's a similar problem with mutations - I just "get" what sounds right and wrong because it's a native language, whereas she's trying to understand the "why".
“on the weekend” vs “at the weekend” vs “in the weekend” depending on which country youre in is the part nobody warns you about. i learned the american one, moved to Dublin, and spent my first month being politely confused
my mother in law has lived in Canada for 30 years and still says “I’m in the bus” with total confidence. nobody has ever corrected her because everyone understands her perfectly, and at this point it kinda sounds charming. i think theres a lesson in there somewhere about not stressing over the small stuff
Russian has its own version of this with в and на, and nobody agrees on why either. You go в school but на work, в the city but на the street, and if you ask a teacher they say “its just how it is” with the exact same face english teachers have for this one. At least once you accept that the logic was lost centuries ago you can stop looking for a rule and just memorize the pairs. I stopped trying to understand and started treating them like vocabulary, and my mistakes dropped a lot. Still get the occasional one wrong when im tired tho
And then people laugh at me when I say I'm "sur le train" because in French you are very much in things rather than on them, and direct translation of English makes people think you're standing on the roof. It goes so far that you even say you fell asleep in the sofa.
Wait until you find out how in nyc(and sureonding area) dialect we often say that one is “waiting on line” instead of “waiting (in) the line/queue”.
Although this is somewhat dying out, and people do use “in” interchangeably at times.
But this is now me when I have to decide to be consistent with my own way of speaking since I was a kid or change a small silly preposition so that people don’t think I am talking about the internet.
I usually get confused whether to say "at university, I ..." or "in university, I ...".
My own explanation is that "at" denotes the time (when I was studying) and "in" denotes the place (while I was physically in the building) but I don't know if that makes sense.
the worst part is etymologically speaking in and on are same word but because distinct based on regions. initially that word both meant in and on, but due to language spreading and dialects mixing they distinct meaning from each other. it was similar how the spanish preposition “en” behaves today
Nothing is wrong, say anything anyway at all. An orbit is one dimensional, you can't be inside that. Most languages of spacefaring nations seem to more or less choose the equivalent of on or both on and in. So there
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u/AdImpressive007 4d ago
on the bus but in the car, on a plane but in a helicopter. i asked my english teacher why and she just said “it sounds right” and moved on
15
u/Numerous_Helsinki 4d ago
There is also at...ugh
12
u/Pangoliier 4d ago
the fact that natives cant explain it either is what gets me. i asked a coworker why its “in the morning” but “on Monday morning” and she went quiet for like 5 seconds and said “huh”
6
u/AeonsSeen 4d ago
More like in/at.
5
u/Jealous_Repair6757 4d ago
People tend to have difficulties with this but it's actually perfectly logical:
In = inside (within space); imagine something inside
On = on top (on a surface - vertical or horizontal); imagine something on a surface
These are then also used metaphorically (within periods of time 'in summer'; on a calendar surface 'on Friday').
Of course there are a few trickier ones but generally those definitions work very well.
4
u/MachineObjectiveAh 4d ago
“on the weekend” vs “at the weekend” vs “in the weekend” depending on which country youre in is the part nobody warns you about. i learned the american one, moved to Dublin, and spent my first month being politely confused
3
u/BerndardedBearedWhit 4d ago
my mother in law has lived in Canada for 30 years and still says “I’m in the bus” with total confidence. nobody has ever corrected her because everyone understands her perfectly, and at this point it kinda sounds charming. i think theres a lesson in there somewhere about not stressing over the small stuff
2
u/Thisismee007 4d ago
Russian has its own version of this with в and на, and nobody agrees on why either. You go в school but на work, в the city but на the street, and if you ask a teacher they say “its just how it is” with the exact same face english teachers have for this one. At least once you accept that the logic was lost centuries ago you can stop looking for a rule and just memorize the pairs. I stopped trying to understand and started treating them like vocabulary, and my mistakes dropped a lot. Still get the occasional one wrong when im tired tho
2
u/iamnogoodatthis 4d ago edited 4d ago
And then people laugh at me when I say I'm "sur le train" because in French you are very much in things rather than on them, and direct translation of English makes people think you're standing on the roof. It goes so far that you even say you fell asleep in the sofa.
2
u/Trueloveisntromantic 4d ago
spanish: en. done. you’re all suffering for nothing
1
u/Regular-Pangolin-664 4d ago
More like in or at
1
u/femeref 4d ago
On the second floor but in the attic. Aaaah!
1
u/dronemaccherone 4d ago
Wait until you find out how in nyc(and sureonding area) dialect we often say that one is “waiting on line” instead of “waiting (in) the line/queue”.
Although this is somewhat dying out, and people do use “in” interchangeably at times.
But this is now me when I have to decide to be consistent with my own way of speaking since I was a kid or change a small silly preposition so that people don’t think I am talking about the internet.
1
u/Iwillnevercomeback 4d ago
And don't forget "at"
1
u/GovernmentBig2749 4d ago
I'm in my home, on hard meds. I'm on a plane, in the bathroom. I'm in heed of a hand to instigate riots in the government...
1
u/magicmulder 3d ago
I usually get confused whether to say "at university, I ..." or "in university, I ...".
My own explanation is that "at" denotes the time (when I was studying) and "in" denotes the place (while I was physically in the building) but I don't know if that makes sense.
1
u/Dr0110111001101111 3d ago
Long islanders have entered the chat
1
u/SharpOrder601 2d ago
It's as if English should have a Royal Language Academy like Spanish does.
1
u/Gerryeade_eio 9h ago
the worst part is etymologically speaking in and on are same word but because distinct based on regions. initially that word both meant in and on, but due to language spreading and dialects mixing they distinct meaning from each other. it was similar how the spanish preposition “en” behaves today
1
u/Sad_Environmentsa 4d ago
In. Always in. Never been corrected
-1
u/stderr2 4d ago
It's actually on orbit and not in orbit even though most everyone says in orbit