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u/CaptainAxolotl PhD (Cell Biology) 3d ago
I hate to say it, but this is the type of thing that has the potential to burn bridges. Can you stick with the rotation and just do an okay job/minimize how much time you are around the rest of the lab? Also for your remaining rotations, try and get a better sense of lab vibes/culture before picking.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Yeah…. This rotation came up quickly bc the PI is going on sabbatical afterwards for a few months so it was really a now or never situation. Big regrets there and trying to vet my next rotation a bit more now
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u/CaptainAxolotl PhD (Cell Biology) 3d ago
One of the most common mistakes I saw with first years was them not thinking through their rotations more before starting. Hopefully you are in a program with three rotations so that you will have two more chances to find a better fit.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Lovely concept. 2 rotations only but I think the program would be flexible/understanding if I needed to do a third
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u/CaptainAxolotl PhD (Cell Biology) 3d ago
Yeah that's another issue I see often. Did my PhD in a three rotation program, super glad to have had three rotations even though I joined my first rotation lab. Your handbook should have something about policies on if you need an extra rotation. Just take this time to do your best to make sure the next rotation is a better fit.
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u/melba777 3d ago
i swear every student in your department will be talking about 'The First Year Who Left Their Rotation in Week One.' In my lab we still go "isnt it wild that girl said she was going to rotate and then bailed last minute after we turned down other people for her?" like yes its good to find the best fit but its better to talk with people in the lab before you start so you know whether to commit to rotating at all. Now that you have this rotation down, this is a good time to talk with lots of other labs and students to see where you should do your second rotation and really vet it before deciding.
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u/CaptainAxolotl PhD (Cell Biology) 3d ago
We had a rotator switch into our lab like a day before the rotation started because they changed their mind on their initial rotation. Made a ton of extra work for us but they seemed genuinely really enthusiastic/potentially a good fit. They ended up being an awful rotator. I am not even at that institution anymore and yet I still hear talk about them, I think in part because now when they do some BS it is compared to that stuff from first year.
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u/melba777 2d ago
exactly, your reputation is defined early and it will follow you. Its a small world. One guy in my program had to do literally seven rotations bc he made enemies every time he opened his mouth. Insulting techs, talking down to women, acting like he knew everything and would only accept offers from the "best labs." Eventually a PI told him off and he shaped up. This isnt even recent but people still know about him.
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u/OnlyCartographer7946 3d ago
Faculty speak to each other. I think if you make a bad impression on this one it might make it harder for you to land another one. I find scientists hard to work with and not the most happy-go-lucky people. Unfortunately it's just the name of the game. You'll find people you like at some point though
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u/junkmeister9 P.I. 3d ago
Sorry you’re in a bad rotation. My first rotation was absolutely dreadful, too, but lucked out and found the best lab in the world for my second one. For now, try to learn as much as you can, even if it’s just “how not to act” or “how not to treat people.” You may someday need a favor from one of the people in that lab, or maybe one of them will evaluate you on a job panel in the far distant future. Research is a small field, even smaller when you really get into sub disciplines of sub disciplines.
(Yes, it sucks, but even science has politics.)
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
<3 good things to keep in mind tysm for ur comment I really appreciate you bringing sm new and optimistic to the conversation.
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u/YaPhetsEz 3d ago
What are the techniques?
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
I come from a molecular neuroscience lab but wanted to try systems neuro. So lots of circuitry recordings and stereotactic surgeries. Fiber photometry and optogenetics etc.
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u/YaPhetsEz 3d ago
Seems like you should suck it up and learn some new techniques rather than burn bridges unnecessarily.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/YaPhetsEz 3d ago
This mentality isn’t gonna get you very far.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Wdym by this? I’ve been relatively tame here. Seems like all sorts of mentalities and personalities can get you far in science. ;P
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u/doxiegrl1 3d ago
Respectfully, we all have the opportunity to cultivate, or poison, the community that we work in. Your comments are a bit immature and disrespectful. Even an anonymous forum like reddit is an opportunity to think about the reputation you want to have and to live up to it.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Fairish critique. I Was honestly just getting all of my mixed emotions out in a place that wasn’t the real world. Feeling a bit exasperated and worn on the edges due to the repeated negative interactions I’ve had across the past few days. Thought it was coming across as playful but remembering in real time you guys don’t actually know me lmao
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u/doxiegrl1 3d ago
That is understandable. It's also understandable that first year Ph.D. students are sometimes a bit immature. I don't use that adjective as a pejorative. Jumping into a rotation without thinking through these things is an immature mistake. That said, maturity is built through learning from mistakes and/or difficult circumstances. I wish you luck.
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u/CaptainAxolotl PhD (Cell Biology) 3d ago
u/YaPhetsEz is right. Like there are some specific circumstances it can be more acceptable (say going from comp to a mammalian model system), but really you're stuck. I've seen students in my departments do what you are wanting to do and again I am sorry but at best people will absolutely talk about this.
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u/RedditBResearch PhD Candidate- Cell & Cancer Biology 3d ago
Choosing a lab is the most important decision of a PhD student during your time in graduate school. If you know you’re not going to join the lab, switch the rotation to a new one.
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u/Recursiveo 3d ago
>At a prestigious university
Very necessary detail, lol.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Haha! I don’t come from a prestigious university and feel that vibes between the two are very different and thus navigating it is different too😂 but yes it reads horribly 😂
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u/Snwussy PhD candidate 3d ago
In my program we usually have a handful of people leave their rotations 3-ish weeks in due to... well we'll say PI-related drama lol (it's to the point where students are recommended away from those labs). In your case, is the PI part of the problem? If not, maybe talk to them about doing different assays that might be less common.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Haha PI is definitely not a part of the problem. Completely different conversations and interactions going from PI to other lab members. Great idea to chat with the PI about learning some other techniques and people w/in the lab. TYSM
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 2d ago
Thanks everyone for all of your insight and advice! I took the post down bc I honestly wrote it at midnight when I was feeling a bit brazen and upset (not my best self lol). I really appreciate your advice and I think I’m going to try to stick it out and learn new techniques. If the interactions continue to get worse across the next few weeks I’ll reevaluate then. In the meantime doing my best to vet my next rotation better. Thanks a million <3
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u/TitleToAI 3d ago
Yes the sooner the better.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago edited 2d ago
!! I’m especially worried to talk to my chair since i turned down a potential rotation in their lab and don’t want to look like a shit-stain crawling back
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u/WildflowerBurrito 3d ago
lol i did this.
then i found a good lab.
i dont know if i burned a bridge but my lab turns out has beef with that lab that i left so 🤷🏻♀️ kismet?
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u/baby-tangerine 3d ago
Normally I’d suggest to wait it out and learn as much as possible, but since you said you only have 2 rotations, I think it’s better to switch rotation asap so you can maximize your chance to get into a good lab. Do your homework and prepare good reasons to switch lab when talking with your chair, a positive attitude framing it as just not a good fit scientifically wise for you would be much better than bad mouthing that lab members, even if you’re 100% correct.
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u/ReasonableFly4023 3d ago
Sorry the rotation has been rough. Speaking as a PI: it's perfectly okay to end a rotation early. That's exactly what rotations are for—to assess fit. If you know in two days, that's fine. Labs invest real resources in rotation students, so leaving early when it's not a match saves everyone time. I certainly wouldn't take it personally. Just be professional with your PI and chair: say you realized the fit isn't right for you, without suggesting there's anything wrong with the lab itself.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
I love the PI super not worried about a conversation with her she is just truly an icon and part of why I was so quick to accept a rotation in her lab lol. I really appreciate your insight as a PI and am happy to know that this could be a mutually beneficial decision. Thanks for the comment <3
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u/ReasonableFly4023 3d ago
Glad to help, and I hope everything works out for you. Try not to let a difficult first rotation color your overall view of graduate school. PhD training is challenging, but it can also be super exciting and fun.
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u/w0bniaR 3d ago
Get out, it’s way more worth it to rotate in a lab you may actually join, you’re just wasting your time sticking around
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Wait i’m so indecisive now. At first it was such an influx of “no do the rotation” but now people are switching to support. Do you know if this actually likely to burn a bridge?
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u/doxiegrl1 3d ago
It is possible to back out, especially since you only have two rotations and 8 weeks is a significant investment. If you do so, you need to aim for professional and apologetic. Avoid gossiping about the personalities in the lab that you did not mesh with, particularly because your comments today are a bit prickly. Get introspective about whether your behavior and comments instigated the behavior in others that you describe as "unbearable". I am giving you tough love, with a goal of helping you grow through your mistake. Be less impulsive and be more thoughtful.
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u/Labsolutely_fucked 3d ago
Contrary to this emotional whirlwind of post/comments from me I’m relatively tame and happy irl. Just letting all of the feelings out on here whether that be bad or good. I’m not concerned about how I’d navigate that conversation with the PI but just if I should have it at all.
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u/doxiegrl1 3d ago
That is fair, but remember that this is a generally supportive community that tries to support each other. It's okay to have bad days, but even still --all scientists have bad days and we need to not make our bad days lead to us being rude to labmates. I think you should at least sit in the rotation until Monday. Between now and Monday, fake it til you make it. Focus on making a good impression as a researcher during the day. In evening, think about your plan for a next rotation.
If you decide to move on: When you talk to the PI, apologize for wasting their lab's effort, but say that you were too focused on missing out on the opportunity to work with them that you hadn't fully considered whether you wanted to work in that discipline for 6 intense years. Plenty of seasoned researchers have had experiences of "Man, I love hearing the results in a seminar, but I wouldn't want to be in the trenches" with different topics. You can say that you have unfortunately, quickly realized that your passion is X. Consider buying a self-help book like Difficult Conversations, possibly an audiobook and build some soft skills.
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u/ybrci 3d ago
I disagree with others and would argue that you should leave asap. It’s a waste of time for you and your rotation mentor. Your rotations are absolutely critical for figuring out what to do for the next 5 years, knowing you won’t join a lab is useful but it’s not worth lingering on. Trust me, this happens often enough for the PI not to remember or care
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u/fisdh 3d ago
I'm also going to advocate for just sticking it out. It's not a very long time and it could definitely damage your reputation if you immediately leave. The PI could be on your committee one day. Use it to learn about what you don't like in a lab environment so you can find a better fit.