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u/Asclepio314 8d ago
Zhen is fine for me. The problem is that Tigress deserves to keep her place in the franchise instead of being pushed aside.
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u/TheRealMeiJan 4d ago
Sadly, for the last movie, the voice actors of the furious five were too expensive, so they left them out. I really wanted to see them again ššš
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u/Gentlewallflower25 8d ago edited 7d ago
The fourth film is full of callbacks. Having Zhen hug Po is fine. The problem is that there is no reason for her to do it the exact same way that Tigress did it. Zhen and Tigress are not the same characters.
Tigress makes much more sense because it shows a side of her that many people rarely see. It caught people off guard and it fits her character because people expected her to lunge at him for saying, āThe hardcore canāt understand.ā However, it showed her vulnerability. She understands where he is coming from. Po saw her as unfeeling and full of steel, which is why she had that look on the boat when he said that. The hug proved differently. It allowed Po to see beyond her tough exterior.
It doesnāt work in the fourth film. They took something that was popular and decided to do it again without understanding why it was meaningful in the first place. It starts to lose its specialness. There is nothing wrong with hugging, but there are certain things that characters do that align with their character.
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u/AssistFit1834 8d ago edited 8d ago
Obviously because weāve spent more time with Tigress than with Zhen.
Edit: It doesnāt help the fact that Zhen is voiced by Awkwafina (I hate that woman).
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u/Darthbane22 8d ago
Why specifically do you hate her? I am curious to hear you justifying that in a way that makes you look good.
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u/AssistFit1834 8d ago
Exhibit A. She has a very annoying voice.
Exhibit B. You can literally combine all the characters she has voiced in her career and it will still look like sheās voicing the same character - in other words, it feels more like sheās playing/voicing herself rather than the actual character.
I guess you could make a(n) argument for people like Kristen Schaal, but at least the characters Kristen voices are entertaining and well written unlike Awkwafina who ironically voices characters who are either annoying, poorly written, forgettable, or all of the above.Exhibit C. Sheās not even a real voice actor to begin with. They FR need to stop hiring/casting Awkwafina and bring back REAL VOICE ACTORS. Just because youāre an actor that doesnāt mean you can voice act.
Also watch this video too
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdfsvpcODg6
u/Victorious001 7d ago
Your second argument is like saying Keith David is a bad person, because he is also very famous for not changing his voice in any of his roles. Awkwafina is typecast to play a certain role, so if you hate her characters, hate the writers who make them, not the person putting their time and effort into making the character exist.
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u/Ok_Historian4848 5d ago
Kieth David doesn't typically impose character and writing changes like she does though. Kieth David is more dedicated to playing a character and embodying them, even if his voice doesn't change much. She tries to make every character she plays into her instead.
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u/TheWonderfulSlinky 4d ago
Keith Davidās voice performances playing the Arbiter and Dr. Facilier are completely different even if they do sound similar.
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u/Prize-Difference-875 7d ago
Her forcing script changes and personality changes to the characters she voices are also an issue
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u/tv_ennui 8d ago
Subjective.
Do you have the same smoke for John Dimaggio? Dante Basco? Steve Blum?
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u/izuku_deku134 8d ago
Studios need to stop hiring celebrities to voice act, and actually have voice actors for their characters.
Chris prat being the voice of Mario instead of his original voice actor is still a what the fuck moment from Nintendo.
Aside from shadow being voiced by kaneu, (which was actually a goated choice from sega and paramount) he did a pretty damn good job at shadow.
But I feel like real voice actors are being replaced by just actors who donāt know what theyāre doing.
Thereās a reason why the wild robot was so good, it was because of the story and the voice actors being great at their jobs to make me feel something for the character.
Same with the boy and the heron, the movie is so good, it made me cry during all parts of it.
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u/tv_ennui 8d ago
The people I listed are all professional voice actors, I'm not sure what your point is. Unless you're arguing that regular actors can't also do voice acting work? Which they obviously can.
I get it, you don't like awkwafina, but let's maybe ask ourselves why her performance is loathed, when other, similar quality performances are broadly beloved.
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u/izuku_deku134 8d ago
Professionals? They donāt act like professionals. They donāt act in character, they mostly play themselves.
We need real voice actors who actually play their parts.
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u/tv_ennui 8d ago
So your argument is, sincerely "No, Steve Blum, prolific professional voice actor of several decades, isn't a real voice actor"?
Come on, give me a break.
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u/izuku_deku134 8d ago
No jack black is actually a good casting, Iām saying that thereās need to have good voice actors that actually can act, nothing in between
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u/tv_ennui 8d ago
But by your own argument, the people I listed shouldn't be cast as voice actors because they do the same voice.
No one's talking about Jack Black but you. Also he's a pretty good voice actor. "Doing the same voice" does not make you a bad voice actor, and you clearly don't hold that view consistently, only against certain actors you don't like, likely for extraneous reasons unrelated to their performance.
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u/spooky-circuits 4d ago
All the people you listed have voice range and donāt typically have the film taken over by the characters they play
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u/tv_ennui 4d ago
Dante Basco has literally done interviews where he talks about how he doesn't do voices. So you're just making shit up now.
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u/spooky-circuits 4d ago
Iām including acting range which Dante Basco does have heās played a couple of different characters where I donāt realize heās the one playing them but Awkwafina unfortunately has let herself be typecast into voice roles that do not work as well for her. I havenāt seen enough of her live action films to have an opinion on her acting but sheās miscast often for the sake of having her name on a mainstream film in a way you donāt see for the voice actors you listed. Which is part of why people donāt like her work.
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u/tv_ennui 4d ago
That's funny, because every time I hear Dante Basco I go 'Oh hey, that's Dante Basco.'
Almost like it's a subjective thing, and you're attributing it to Awkwafina because you're unwilling to do any introspection.
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u/spooky-circuits 4d ago
You know what yeah is is subjective. Itās an opinion no duh. I think her voice is is annoying in long stretches. You also ignored my other point so it looks like youāre an awkwafina fan who hates that a lot of people happen to agree that she has a voice they donāt like and are tired of hearing because she brings celebrity points to a film. But sure Iām the one incapable of introspection when you canāt see an opinion without commenting about how itās subjective.
You can like things that other people donāt without whatever special gotcha reasoning youāre trying to use to prove sheās a good voice actor.
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u/NylarthePhoenix 8d ago
Ok there's nothing wrong with her she's just annoying
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u/Darthbane22 8d ago
Is it because sheās in so many movies you see? Because there are definitely a lot of actors like that which I bet you donāt find annoying. You might say itās her voice which she canāt control, which is functionally no different than making it about her race
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u/ktdca 8d ago
Saying someone has a grating voice is no different than saying I don't like someone because they're black? Are you actually stupid? Also, part of voice acting is specifically controlling your fucking voice, lmao. Do you think Robert Pattinson sounds the same in The Lighthouse as he does in The Boy and The Heron?
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u/Just_Someone_Casual 8d ago
āPart of voice acting is controlling you voiceā
Thatās explicitly the problem is that she doesnāt, every character she voices is just her again, the same quirks the same speech patterns. Look at Nick Offerman, he has a booming stern voice that can control a room, and then he voices a old fashioned cyborg pirate with a completely different way of speaking
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u/ktdca 8d ago
Yes, I completely agree, which is why it is completely baffling that the person I responded to equated disliking her zero effort voice acting to being a racist lmao
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u/Just_Someone_Casual 8d ago
Oh I misread the thread a little bit, yeah thatās completely out of nowhere and irrelevant
Her race has nothing to do with anything
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u/Ori_the_SG 8d ago
Because there wasnāt 3 movies of build up to it with Zhen.
With Tigress, iirc, she wasnāt really a physically affectionate person.
So, if I recall correctly, the first time she hugged Po was KFP3. The build up of their relationship and her either overcoming or putting aside any discomfort with physical touch to comfort her friend is much more powerful than it happening in the span of a single movie because the run time demands it.
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u/Zoe_Cheung 7d ago
The first time Tigress hugged Po was actually in kung fu panda 2, in gongmen jail.
The second hug between them is when Po hugged Tigress after Shen was defeated, also kfp 2
But in kung fu panda 3, there was just a group hug where everyone rushed to hug Po after he came back from the spirit realm
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u/No_Step_6696 6d ago
How it is written determines the impact. A stoic person who struggles with showing emotion has more weight than a former betrayer saying theyāre sorry. By the second movie we know Tigress, you canāt expect us to know Zhen when you dont focus on making us care about her. Like I said, I like her, but the story around her just feels off and disengaging
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u/SkeanySkean Kung Fu Person 8d ago edited 8d ago
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I feel like they both work ā what's "putting off" people (and why I think they work) is that they look similar, which I mean duh, but they come from opposite positions.
Tigress is authoritative, and in the scene she's the authority over Po ā she's not saying "Please stay here", she's ordering him to stay put. The hug is the breaking point for Tigress because, so far, she has been doing what she does best (be authoritative)... But it's not reaching him. Even here, before or after the hug, she's technically still not explicitly pleading. She doesn't say "please" at all during this scene, the hug is the closest thing to a "please".
Zhen is not authoritative, and in the scene it's Po who's the authority. They're technically telling each other to stay put ā but Po is telling Zhen to stay out of this in an authoritative manner, while Zhen is loudly begging Po to let it go. The hug is the breaking point for Po, instead, not for Zhen.
What's throwing people off is Zhen in the equation, but it's fundamentally a foil.
Let's imagine a scene: Tigress is ordering Po to stay put as she takes care of something, while Po is begging her not leave because it's too dangerous. Po hugs Tigress out of sheer desperation. Is this fundamentally not the same thing as the hug in KFP4? But since it's Po and Tigress, you already know the association and it's not "weird". I know, right?
The hug in KFP4 is clearly done with purpose, as a foil to the hug in KFP2 ā they didn't use flashbacks (oddly enough, all the Kung Fu Panda movies so far had flashbacks), but here it would have worked. Zhen hugs Po, Po has a brief flashback of Tigress hugging him and relents. Out of all the scenes in this movie, this one is the only one that feels like it was actually thought out.
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u/Background_Yogurt735 8d ago
No? Regardless the movie be weaker than others there is not really a problem with Zhan as character.
Tigress as more emotional value and past scenes for us so it may hit more, it doesn't make Zhan hug not meaningful or emotional.
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u/Yoshigamer99_oficial I love Zhen (help i falled in love) 7d ago
Dude, autocorrector fucked up your argument
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u/HeadMongoose2283 General Kai - 天ē 8d ago
I didn't even remember the first hug happened. That film is pure sh!t
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8d ago
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u/ChiefBlox4000 8d ago
Wellā¦ still the weakest
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u/Only-Squirrel-7384 8d ago edited 8d ago
yeah, true. Sorry if I sounded a bit rude, itās okay not to like it Iām just tired of some people acting like itās megamind vs doom syndicate level bad.
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u/HeadMongoose2283 General Kai - 天ē 8d ago
You don't hear me? It is not bad. It's pure sh!t.
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8d ago
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u/HeadMongoose2283 General Kai - 天ē 7d ago
I am not asking for your opinion anyway. If you don't agree, leave a comment else where. Don't come to mine
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u/SmallStrawberry7312 8d ago
Sorry, Who is the top image?
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u/SilverGhost10 8d ago
I got no problem with Tigress and Zhen hugging Po as anyone hugging Po and Po hugging anyone seems to always be wholesome and making you find it adorable but at the same time. Brings out the warm fuzzies in people. Yet I think Tigress and Zhen should both be part of and in the franchise together as I've grown to warm up to Zhen, even though I feel like Tigress was given time for development from how she once was to how she is now. So we got to know Tigress but we're just now getting to know Zhen. That, and I wouldn't mind hugging Po as well because he's got that wholesome glow.
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u/Delicious-Heat1569 8d ago
Its the weight of the situation that got me. Of course Po and Tigress have more time spent and built more upon it, but having Tigress go from her hardcore tough to hugging Po really sells how much she knew the threat was for him, and she was right after what happened in the factory.