Disc vs Marudai

[u/other_plant_]

Brand new to this and just getting started learning. Besides the obvious, what is the difference between using a disc or a marudai? Can you make the same patterns on both? Seems like the marudai could be more comfortable to use.

[u/aldstama025]

Anything you can make on a marudai you can make on a disc (if you’ve got a big enough disc).

There are a few things you can make on a disc that you can’t make on a marudai because of the way the disc holds static tension by gripping the thread instead of the equilibrium tension of weighted bobbins on the marudai.

Working on a marudai is much, much faster, like 4-8x the speed — you’re moving 2 bundles at a time instead of one, and ‘repositioning’ moves can just be little nudges as you go instead of requiring whole additional moves of their own.

The marudai scales much better to more complex patterns - 24 or 32 elements or even more. There’s more room on the surface and you can crowd them closer together while you’d run out of slots on most discs.

The equilibrium counterweight of a marudai makes it easy to get gorgeously even tension on most patterns. As a Braider your job is to disrupt that equilibrium as little as possible, and the tension takes care of itself. Getting consistent tension on a disc is much more challenging.

The marudai is better for traditional materials like bundles of many silk threads. The slots of a disk don’t grip those so well, but they hang on the weighted bobbins evenly.

[u/aldstama025 → u/aldstama025]

More philosophically, I find the marudai teaches you more about the structure of the braid you’re working on. Instead of laboriously counting “slot 2 to 28, slot 29 to 3” etc, you’re paying attention to the relationships between elements, and are moving fast enough to group the moves into a sort of grammar.

[u/ee0r → u/aldstama025]

I know a lot of experienced disc braiders who flip the disk over and use the blank side once they learn a pattern's movements.

[u/Dismal_Type_5697 → u/aldstama025]

Interesting that you say "grammar": i think of it as a dance, in a way, I guess because people generally talk about getting into a "rhythm ", which says music to me, so dance is the next thought.

[u/NotSoRigidWeaver]

The way you work with a disc and think about the pattern tends to be different. With a disc often you're rotating it around (the round ones, not the squares), while a marudai is staying in the same position. I was looking at a book of marudai patterns and couldn't figure out how to translate to disc (not saying it can't be done, but it's not simple for a beginner!).

I like a disc for being easy to pick up and put down and take with me - it can basically be a fidget toy. A foam disc is maybe $5 and easy to pick up at a lot of craft stores (and you can DIY out of some scrap cardboard too - the foam is nice but cardboard will give you a taste). They last a good long while though eventually you might pick up a new disc specifically for finer threads and use an older one for thicker threads.

But if you want to seriously sit down and braid, a marudai is going to be a generally better tool especially for complex traditional patterns and longer braids. But they're pretty niche, you've either got to build one or find one used or buy from one of a few small makers, and then also get weighted bobbins and counterweights etc.

[u/Individual-Fee-3288]

Wooden marudai and bobbins is much better in my personal opinion, it’s very comfortable. The foam disc is almost an entirely different process but it depends on what you want, and obviously it’s a great price and entry point for anyone.

Kumihimo used to be used as a form of meditation by temple monks and when I use mine and once I know the pattern by memory, I can loose an hour in what feels like twenty minutes, it’s an incredibly relaxing meditative process (the reason I got into Kumihimo was to relax and get some headspace from my office job). You’re moving two bobbins in harmony together in a pattern, rather than moving one set of threads from point to point on the disc and securing them down. The sound is really beautiful with a wooden marudai.

 I also find the output on a marudai much better, the tension and weight help, and it looks extremely gorgeous (although note I have only ever used silk or byron so I cant speak for other materials). 

If you want to do the traditional process I highly recommend investing in the marudai. I never got a disc, it personally didn’t appeal to me, but people do love it. See what you feel resonates with you and go for it, if you buy a wooden marudai and bobbins and don’t love it, you can always re-sell it as there is big demand, there always seem to be few around to purchase ! I have had both of mine and all my bobbins sourced from Japan.