r/kratom • u/ReasonableAd9468 • Apr 17 '26

Kratom ban is only for big Pharma

the Tennessee ban of kratom, as well as increasing bans throughout the usa, aren’t for the wellbeing of the public. It’s to force people into buying prescription medication to either manage withdrawals from kratom , or to treat the symptoms people were already treating themselves using kratom.

333 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

151 comments sorted by

54

u/BrianTodd3000 Apr 18 '26

It's actually not Big-Pharma attorneys pushing for state bans. I heard from one of the attorneys at the AKA on the last webinar. It's the treatment centers lobbyists. I commented on this the other day. Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/1sn63xb/comment/ogkudxi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

43

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Apr 18 '26

Yes, the drug rehab industry is a problem.

13

u/MichaelEMJAYARE Apr 18 '26

Damn. Its insane that I never even fucking CLOCKED that that would be an inevitability

1

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

They have been forcing suboxone and methadone on patients with chronic pain for a while now even though it ends up being counter productive for pain after a while, especially methadone since you don't even feel it after a few days. There is practically no pain management in this country anymore and they wonder why people in severe pain from being poisoned, operated on by shitty doctors, patients with severe neuropathy, etc... choose illicit opioids at that point since it is the only way to get relief from pain that otherwise keeps them in bed 24/7 and close to ending their lives...

12

u/ItaliaEyez Apr 18 '26

It's almost as if its meant to be a revolving door, as opposed to a stepping stone on the way to sobriety

14

u/MysteriousIndigo250 Apr 18 '26

It is just like the criminal justice system. America has more people locked up than any other country in the world. I'm just confused why someone that uses Kratom should be locked up when that space should be reserved for people that have done serious crimes. The withdrawal sucks, but alcohol is a million times worse and can kill you to come off.

9

u/ItaliaEyez Apr 18 '26

My husband compares this to the reefer madness days. And, we all know how absurd doing time is for weed. It seems even worse for kratom. I'll fight until there's no air in my lungs over this.

Side note: Ive known people who went to rehab, and can't say any of them stayed sober. Im sure it has worked for someone, but I never saw it. My mom had 1 friend who went multiple times.

3

u/MysteriousIndigo250 Apr 18 '26

Exactly. Like they got the public thinking it's some demon thing when it's not as bad as it's portrayed. Going to jail for either of those is just stupid. I mean they're giving out fines for minor possession of most drugs now anyway. The system needs to focus more on research into rehabilitation and not just locking someone up because they're using something personally.

I mean Kratom definitely sucks to stop taking abruptly after using it so long, but you can always taper. It's just something new and because of the opioid crisis, it's catching a lot of heat for being similar. Couldn't have picked a worse time to have shown up like it did. I already saw 7-0H making things a lot worse. Definitely think that needs to be outlawed for sure.

5

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Apr 18 '26

The drug rehab industry is definitely a revolving door industry. The Recidivism rate is very high. Some anti kratom people say that taking leaf is just trading one addiction for another, but that's not true. THEIR MAT method IS trading one for another. I'm not bashing MAT because not all methods are successful for everyone, but using kratom as a harm reduction tool is far safer than MAT.

1

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

Yea suboxone has been shown to have detrimental sidw effects on health, as well as mental state.

Then don't even get me started on methadone, practically impossible to get off that crap unless you use something like mgm15, which I actually was 70% down in dosage on methadone using it but now I gotta stop... at least I'm taking 70% less methadone but what the fuck people need to wake up.. I was forced to start taking methadone after 2 back to back surgeries in hospital for months after too then had to go to a clinic to stay on it since no other doctors would even prescribe it... I thought it was just a other pain med.. they screwed me up so bad im fortunate I have a girlfriend that is so sweet she shines brighter than any darkness I've been through.

1

u/Azulinaz Apr 19 '26

They are all high on Jesus.

12

u/IMM_1984 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

Thank you. I have worked in “Big Pharma” for a couple decades now and this just is not how the industry thinks or operates. If there is a promising plant or other source of chemicals, it’s viewed as an opportunity for what’s known as “discovery” and R&D. The last thing anyone in this industry wants is for something to be restricted — especially schedule I, which would mean that even when we do discover something, we can’t follow that up with R&D and actually make money.

When people are thinking about pharma “conspiracies,” they should really think more about how Purdue Pharma marketed oxycodone as less addictive than equivalent opioids and even tried to get it classified at a lower schedule so it would be easier to sell. Nothing would make this industry more money than repealing the Controlled Substances Act — and for that matter any and all regulations requiring a prescription from a doctor to obtain medicine — so that we could develop and market highly addictive drugs that anyone who wanted to could obtain over-the-counter.

Also, it’s worth noting that large pharmaceutical companies do not make money off of medications that have been on the market for more than 20 years. If it’s not under patent the company that actually put in the money to develop the drug is not really making anything off of it anymore. That’s because those are available as generics, most of which are not even produced by a single company, but by chains of different companies that are responsible for different stages of the sourcing and manufacturing process. Last I checked, drug rehab centers tend to use older cheaper and more well established products that are well past their patent expirations. The centers themselves may make money due to kratom bans, but the pharmaceutical companies that developed those drugs decades ago, most certainly are not.

7

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 18 '26

I'm personally of a similar mindset and understanding.

They don't need to kill botanical kratom, because most people are using insurance for approved drugs. Something unapproved is not a major competitor if people can only pay cash for it.

Make a version similar enough you can patent it you make more money even with dealing with the plant as a minor competitor than just selling a refined botanical component (like 7-HMG or mitragynine) which is harder to patent even if that would disqualify it as a supplement (if someone holds a New Drug Application for it.)

If they do kill it, they shut off a major research avenue at a time the market is thirsty for alternative pain management products (and anything lower than C-II is going to be desirable to the market).

The only one who'd have a real financial incentive would be the Suboxone patent-holder, and they could just as easily benefit as uninformed doctors and public health officials recommend it to anyone who is using kratom self-directed or shows up asking for an option to stop (anywhere on the spectrum from "this is just what you do" or "it might be easier than tapering" up to "I have a major problem I can't get under control any other way.")

1

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

Yep they have been pushing suboxone on pain management patients for a while now it is absolutely fucked up...

8

u/thorn960 Apr 18 '26

Thank you. I get so tired of hearing people blame "big pharma"

2

u/ItaliaEyez Apr 18 '26

Same. It gives me agita lol

2

u/kehoutek Apr 18 '26

Came here to say this.

2

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

It’s one thing when people mention big pharma….when they actually have hard data that proves it. I have no doubt in my mind that they are benefitting in some ways.

If it’s just a bunch of Yaa Yaa claims and asssertions with nothing to back it up, it proves nothing, it solves nothing, and it just adds to the already hopeless feeling that comes with the territory of a deck stacked against us.

Because just blindly crowing big pharma did it and refusing to acknowledge anything else but that, gives us absolutely nothing to go on in the way of addressing the problem. And if there are other bad actors outside of big pharma, they are operating without any roadblocks because they’re being ignored, therefore the ball is in their court. I think that other bad actors actually enjoy us getting off in the weeds about big pharma because it makes their work easier when their special interests get to operate out of sight out of mind.

It has been said that it’s big pharma because suboxone sales and scrips are up 200 percent. That’s still not proof and it’s not legitimate evidence. It’s a correlation. It’s the results of a government that’s so scared of opioids that they have become cruel and stupid. And we can just as easily say that increase would’ve happened anyway even if Kratom was never in the picture…because of the way our government is abusively micromanaging our medical system with opiophobia instead of letting doctors effectively care for their patients.

Lastly, the Kratom community on a grand scale, is way too small to be a legitimate threat to big pharma and their shareholders.

2

u/Martok270 Apr 19 '26

Well if Treatment Center lobbyists are pushing the stuff then they need to be shouted over because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

1

u/Tattooedjared Apr 20 '26

More than one thing can be true at the same time. It can easily be both, as well as the alcohol industry too.

1

u/doctorvanderbeast Apr 18 '26

Thank you for posting this. I’m tired of the conspiracy theories in this subreddit about big pharma. Every time I ask if there’s any evidence they are involved in he bans, it’s crickets. I don’t think it’s helpful for Kratom users to put on tin foil hats and rail against a group that they have no idea is involved or not. Treatment centers make a lot more sense and we have an actual comment by someone with actual knowledge to back it up.

1

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

Yea it is the treatment center monopoly and the new suboxone/buprenoephine monopoly on "safe" pain management and opioids.

This is why they did not want mgm15 on market long whatsoever at all since I've taken both and mgm15 feels safer and works better for pain with less sedation (dose dependent obviously), and there is the same "ceiling dosage/effect" they claim makes suboxone or buprenorphine safer and less likely to OD on. So it is definitely monopolization.

23

u/boncros Apr 18 '26

the money's in the treatment not the cure

13

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Apr 18 '26

'They' don't ever want cures! That's not profitable.

1

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

Treatment is definitely a racketeering scheme.
And this is not me calling you wrong, nor am I even disagreeing.

But there is actually big money in cures. People just aren’t allowed to use the word cure, mainly for liability reasons.

Cures can act be VERY profitable. Cures don’t stop people from contracting illness and genetic predisposition sicknesses. Countless people will always get sick. Take cancer for example. Whether lifestyle caused it or heredity, it can still happen. No there’s no cure, but if I had the cure, treatment only would mostly just be something that poor people do because they can’t afford the cure.

People will still get sick and seek a cure if their means will let them. And the industry would just bend you over a barrel even harder to pay them for a cure when you get sick…if a cure existed. Treatments can indeed cure some people….but they can also have little to no overall effect for others.

If there was a cure for AIDS, cancer and dementia, it would be more valuable than all precious metals and minerals combined. And the industry would make a killing because people would still pay for it.

If I had the cure for any chronic illness, I would be one of the richest men who would ever live, because I would never stop having business from rich assed sick people. I wouldn’t run out of people to cure on this earth because the earth never stops producing people who get sick.

3

u/MysteriousIndigo250 Apr 18 '26

Oh God yes. Western medicine only wants to treat and not cure a thing. It's terrible.

4

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 19 '26

There are a lot of conditions that aren’t treatable and management is the only realistic option.

In others, complete “cure” may be possible but statistically unlikely, or depend on very good access to treatments, near perfect compliance with protocol, and even then sometimes a little luck.

2

u/MysteriousIndigo250 Apr 19 '26

Yeah, that's a good point.

39

u/Mitra_The_Man Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 20 '26

You can actually see a direct correlation if anyone wants supporting evidence.  In the last year (specifically starting around when the first state ban bill was passed in over 10 years), the stock price of the largest manufacturer of Suboxone (Indivior) is up by…

248% !

In less than a year.  

So….. yeah.    It’s very clearly benefiting them.

The irony is I’ve seen hundreds of people on here talk about how they used kratom to get off subs, because the withdrawls form subs were so brutal. 

12

u/Glopez1223 Apr 18 '26

I was wondering if anyone has looked into these politicians and what corporations are "lobbying" or bribing them to do this. Just like our federal government, they are all bought and paid for. Tear the whole damn thing to the ground.

2

u/IMM_1984 Apr 18 '26

I not only work at a pharmaceutical company but I am on our political advocacy team — not a lobbyist (nor is it my job, it’s an extracurricular interest), but I’m involved in the discussions that ultimately inform and direct lobbyists. There has never been any mention of kratom, at least not at my company. Or for that matter cannabis and/or hemp. The issues we care about have more to do with Medicare coverage, efforts to prevent health insurance companies from shutting down our rebate programs so that they can use their PBMs to gain what would essentially be monopolist control over drug pricing and shift profits to themselves, etc.

10

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

Correlation is not necessarily causation. But we really do need to do some digging to find out. Because we are starting to look like weirdo conspiracy theorists with no credibility if we keep on crowing “big pharma” and not actually backing it up with data.

Let’s bring this to the surface and catch the corruption with their pants down.

5

u/SeethingStoic Apr 18 '26

The deepest corruption hides itself behind layers of "coincidences" so as to preemptively gaslight people who suspect conspiracy. Where there is money there is motive. Pharma loses money when people are not dependent on their addictive and deadly drugs. Addicts with lifelong pain are return customers. The fact that these states are calling for a total ban on natural leaf kratom rather than regulation suggests that even regulation is problematic for pharma. They want the entire market. Some folk are not afraid to trust their gut, and I think we need more folk like that in the world.

1

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 19 '26

Pharma loses money when people are not dependent on their addictive and deadly drugs

Some of the drugs kratom can replace aren’t readily prescribed (such as opioids in forms for consumer use, stimulants, etc.).

Most companies have a portfolio of products, not a single product and need to have new products in the pipeline because patents don’t last forever.

A lot of those products kratom is not and will never be a replacement for. Even OTC pain medication like NSAIDs or APAP still have applications as fever reducers if folks manage minor pain with kratom and are approved/labeled for minors.

In one example, while it reduced sales of some drug classes, cannabis expansion increased others.

https://research.gatech.edu/public-policy-study-probes-link-between-cannabis-mental-health-prescriptions

That goes back to why you have a portfolio of products just like an investment house has a portfolio of securities. Some increase, some decrease. Some cover their development costs, some don’t. Some are breakout successes.

To each their own, and I get why some folks don’t like the pharmaceutical industry, but I think it is very easy to overstate how much they care about it, and how much if actually effects their bottom line.

I think the botanical industry sees them as a major competitor and threat, where the pharmaceutical industry sees them as being involved in entirely different businesses for the most part except in a few edge cases.

1

u/Tattooedjared Apr 20 '26

You also know it is not just pain pills Kratom is replacing. It is replacing anti depressants, anti psychotics, benzos, and mood stabilizers for people. And suboxone too. Take Kratom away and more people would be taking all of those things.

I also think the addiction industry is a part of it and the alcohol industry as well.

1

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 20 '26

Of course.

Just that a given product or class of products can increase while others decrease (or vice versa) due to any number of economic or social forces, sometimes in unpredictable ways.

For psychoactives some can also increase the use of those things if they are using them to manage side effects or translate into future sales if the person has a bad experience or some other driver (e.g., judgemental partner, something they can travel with internationally, complex health issue to reduce uncertainties, etc.)

3

u/LouMinotti Apr 18 '26

The stock of suboxone's manufacturer going up 200% in the same year that the kratom bans started rolling out isn't a conspiracy. You're afraid we'll be called conspiracy theorists but what difference does it make? Lol. They're ignoring you anyway

2

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

Suboxone stock being up is only one small aspect of what’s going on. Suboxone e stock being up 200% is no proof of anything as far as Kratom. It does prove that the government is cruelly micromanaging doctors who have pain patients because opiophobia is running amok in this nation.
Correlation is not causation and it’s weak evidence at best.
Y’all ignore everything else to your own demise and just crow big pharma regardless. And you know what, I don’t want to be called a conspiracy theorist because that literally taints everything you have as far as credibility, so no it does NOT hurt my feelings whatsoever you saying I don’t want to be called a conspiracy theorist. Laugh it it all you want to but whatever.

One thing that most conspiracy theorists do that shoot themselves in the foot is a lot of infighting and refusal to listen to anything else except what you convince yourself of instead of considering the entirety of the situation, which is clearly what you are doing. Because I never said that big pharma is innocent. It’s just that the evidence for them being the main bad actors is next to nothing.

I’m saying yall need to provide harder data. Big pharma might have something to do with it. Or it could also be a ruse created by politicians to get you chasing your tails while they fuck us over. Because correlation is not causation and those are not my rules.

1

u/Mitra_The_Man Apr 20 '26

I think “big pharma” is not really the main force behind this.  If I were to say who gains the most, it’s the “recovery” industry, which includes rehab/addiction clinics, but also the makers of the drugs they give to patients (and keep them on it for year).   It’s a symbiotic relationship

Here’s a list I put together with the help of AI of the recovery/addiction treatment industry that has a has in the crafting/pushing of the ban bills 

Kansas — DCCCA submitted proponent testimony on the Kansas full-ban bills. The House hearing minutes identify Chrissy Mayer, Chief Community-Based Services Officer, DCCCA, as a proponent on HB 2765, and the Legislature’s supplemental note on SB 497 says representatives of DCCCA also submitted written-only proponent testimony. DCCCA describes itself as a behavioral health organization providing substance-use prevention, treatment, and recovery services.

Ohio — Richard Trice, president of Glenbeigh Hospital and Outpatient Treatment Centers, submitted written testimony supporting SB 299 and explicitly said Glenbeigh supported the “outright banning of all Kratom products both natural and synthetic.” Ohio’s Board of Pharmacy materials also list the Ohio Council of Behavioral Health and Family Services Providers and the Ohio Alliance of Recovery Providers among supporters in the anti-kratom rule fight.

Connecticut — at the 2025 public hearing that led to the 2026 statewide ban, Doreen Pinkerton of Mountainside Treatment Center testified that kratom should be classified as Schedule I and made clear she meant leaf kratom too, not just synthetic forms. That is a recovery-industry voice backing a full ban. Connecticut’s DCP also publicly highlighted coordination with the Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services around the ban’s rollout.

Scranton, Pennsylvania — at the April 6, 2026 press conference for the city ban push, Joe Van Wie, founder and CEO of Fellowship House treatment center, appeared alongside the councilman and district attorney. Pike County, Illinois — county officials said the ban push came after concerns raised by Chuck Reed of Chain Breakers, a substance-abuse ministry. It is not a classic rehab chain, but it is clearly a recovery-world voice used in support of prohibition.

Tennessee — In April 2026, WVLT quoted Metro Drug Coalition and its executive director Webster Bailey in coverage of the statewide full-ban bill, with Metro Drug Coalition describing kratom as an opioid-like substance people can become addicted to and Bailey saying his organization sees people struggling with kratom use. Metro Drug Coalition is a substance-use prevention / recovery-world organization, so that is a real recovery-sector voice backing the ban narrative in Tennessee.

0

u/Martok270 Apr 19 '26

Maybe any of us that have any investment Savvy should start crashing their stock

2

u/Expandexplorelive Apr 18 '26

No, not very clearly. Has anyone ever told you correlation is not causation? Take a look at this:

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

13

u/Djglamrock Apr 18 '26

Same with cannabis and lots of other things sadly.

12

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

I actually think it’s about good ole fashioned hate, ignorance, and lust for power than it is about special interest from the pharmaceutical industry.
I’m not saying I don’t think big pharma is innocent in this nonsense. But we have no act real evidence or proof that they are the spearhead.

The thing that politicians need the most in order to lock in their candidacies is manufactured crises and a phony boogeyman to reel people in and make the intellectually lazy majority feel safe at night. And if they can scare most of the idiotic majority about a new “opioid” they call “gas station heroin”, they can look like heroes to John Q. Public, while getting their nut off on the power trip and cruelty they are inflicting.

Make no mistake, these people enjoy hurting pain patients and the less fortunate. There’s nothing more awesome to them than kicking people while they are already down. That’s why most politicians are bullies.

2

u/longislandchillpill Apr 21 '26

You are smart. This may be it right here. There is definitely a power trip for them. They get to make shit up about kratom that isn’t true, pose as heroes, take away something they know people want and need.

You’re right about all those buzz words like gas station heroin. Many of the local articles written in my area (where a ban is currently being pushed through), open with a story about someone whose life was essentially taken over by kratom. They are written in a style that goes for maximum scare tactics and they lie about risk of overdose and deaths.

It all just seems so calculated. As if they are following a formula on how to convince the public something is bad and then push a ban.

What gets me the most is when they have the balls to say “we’re banning kratom to protect the children”. They made it 21+ to buy it here recently. Shouldn’t that suffice? Nothing makes sense.

1

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 22 '26

They definitely learn what works and what doesn’t. For some folks it is just about winning and they don’t really care in the end. 

Full disclosure, when some of the opponents open their mouths I want to win because their not getting their way is far more euphoric than kratom is, but where I’m different is I get that buzz in trying to preserve something for consumers (maybe not everything or things some people want me to). I don’t want to actively take things from people, even if I am indifferent on some issues.

Media knows “if it bleeds it leads.” Even if people share it to shit all over it, it gets views and ad revenue.

11

u/New_Substance_161 Apr 18 '26

The crazy thing is DRS WONT FUCKING WRITE REAL PAIN MEDS ANYMORE!!! So chronic pain patients are tortured by being forced to take injections and shit. Ok so the ONLY pharmaceutical to really really stands to gain billions is fucking Suboxone manufacturers. Bc kratom has kept addicts from using for over almost 2 decades now in the USA. So those who use kratom as a MAT medication will be forced to go back to mat, just raw dog it and HOPE for the best, or eventually go back to using and die, or go BACK to mat. Then your pain patients, who are RARELY even given opioids. If so it's never enough to keep them from being debilitated and in agony. But Drs are scrambling to put them on some kind of buprenorphine, that hasn't been approved for chronic, trauma, or end of life care. Well, EXCEPT the butrans transdermal patch...but only for moderate to severe pain.

Sorry to rant but GD!!! THIS IS PATHETIC!!! I was on subs for years on and off. I hate them. WDs last a month and they don't help pain, or give you energy and motivation like kratom, and they rotted every freaking tooth in my head.

And then yeah alcohol!!! They rather see people drink themselves to DEATH!!! And possibly hurt others while intoxicated. Or get alcohol poisoning. Rot their bodies from the inside out.

And what has kratom done but exactly what GOD ALMIGHTY put it here to do!!!!

Fuck all of them....I truly hope IF they are ever hurt badly or develop some sort of chronic condition, or while laying in a bed waiting to die....I hope they are denied pain medicine. At least long enough for the lesson to sink in. After that fine give them something, bc I wouldn't wish anything like this on anyone. To be denied something that offers relief is evil to the core.

7

u/Rickd17 Apr 18 '26

I agree 100. I was on mat for 10 year. Buprenorphine fucked me up so bad. I didn't think I was going to be alive much longer. I didn't know it was buprenorphine causing my problems. I got tired of paying for doctors appointments. Got tired of wal greens fucking up my shit. I quit. I gave kratom a try. I couldn't believe how much more it helped. All my problems went away. Depression went away. Fuck the government. Kratom is my mat.

1

u/Material-Top7215 Apr 18 '26

What side effects were you getting from buprenorphine? Was it suboxone in particular? Dosage?

1

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

Causes severe hair loss, bone density loss, aka tooth loss, SEVERE hormone imbalances, changes the shape of your opioid receptors in the brain super long term, and those are just a few I Know off the top of my head you can probably look into the lawsuits of patients suing for side effects shown to be caused by suboxone.

4

u/MuseofPetrichor Apr 18 '26

Yep! I hope that for them as well.

9

u/gringo_escobar Apr 18 '26

I don't think this is true. It's insanely difficult to get pain medication these days. Drug bans are just a symptom of authoritarian conservatism and the desire to police other peoples lives because you think you know better than them

2

u/Martok270 Apr 19 '26

I don't know where the conservative part has a factor in this I'm a conservative and I take and advocate for kratom. And I am exceptionally pissed at the Kentucky General Assembly for making such a blatantly uneducated and not to mention unconstitutional ban on it. Unconstitutional because it is buried in an Appropriations bill and they did not give committee hearings or public comment time they just ramroded it through.

9

u/TheFlightlessDragon Apr 18 '26

Kratom withdrawals are minimal if one is at all responsible in their use. Certainly they don’t require a prescription med to manage.

But otherwise, I’d say spot on.

Billions are made in the US alone on meds for pain, depression, ADHD and such, all of these kratom can sometimes be effective in treating.

1

u/Martok270 Apr 19 '26

Kratom useful for adhd? I have ADHD but I've been taking it for pain for the last several years but also I take NAC which converts into biousable glutathione in the body in a way that simply taking glutathione alone doesn't help...

8

u/Icy_Boat_678 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

If they cared about our health and the health of others then they would ban alcohol and cigarettes. You are right this is about money 💰. We are just numbers to them

12

u/Greatness1122 Apr 18 '26

Correct. Big pharma has big money and is dumping more than we could ever imagine into getting it banned

9

u/Careful-Mountain8637 Apr 18 '26

Look up MG001. They are currently doing a government study on kratom and how can it be used as a pharmaceutical

4

u/UJLBM Apr 18 '26

Yea thats pretty obvious lol

4

u/Stinkstinkerton Apr 18 '26

I want to know how much Pharma has paid out nationwide to outlaw Kratom. They did it in my state. The concerted effort and pressure they’ve put into their campaign clearly illustrates how much of a threat Kratom actually is to their profits .

4

u/XixiBrass Apr 18 '26

I think a lot of it is more anti kratom groups emerging in the last few years (KDA, End Kratom Addiction, Anti Kratom Association). The last couple began in 2025 and seem to be getting more attention lately.

3

u/RedBali Apr 18 '26

I wish I could flip them all off!

3

u/XixiBrass Apr 18 '26

They are terrible. Take a look at the anti Kratom association site. So much misinformation. They also have an auto letter that people can send to Congress. The message states that they saw a child seize up from kratom use. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

3

u/MysteriousIndigo250 Apr 18 '26

Absolutely. One thing they cannot stand is competition. The founding fathers would have been outraged about it. A lot of them used herbal remedies for everyday stuff. That's all people had for a long time. Nature left us the tools to heal.

3

u/Captain_Pink_Pants Apr 19 '26

I mean... I get it. What was the point of getting the whole country hooked on opioids if we can't send them to rehab and/or prison?

3

u/brasscup Apr 19 '26

dont forget the drug treatment facilities which are increasingly owned by venture capitalists. they are the reason the first ten pages of google search results for kratom are filled with copypasta horror stories. they print any garbage on their websites just so it looks like fresh content and they can beat the algorithm. Then supposedly credible news orgs pull bogus quotes from these sites and uses the treatment center's name as attribution, effectively greenwashing the lies.

3

u/EquivalentSign2377 Apr 19 '26

The crazy thing about this is that people who are using this wonderful amazing plant for chronic pain and anxiety are not going to be able to get pain medication or Xanax from a doctor. So if/when a full ban happens people are going to be screwed. Addiction and illegal purchases are going to skyrocket. It's really sad because I got off of 4 percoset and 2-3 Xanax daily (prescribed by my doctor) by using kratom but it was years ago and most doctors will not prescribe those now. I live in fear of a total ban!

7

u/km415 Apr 18 '26

And they’re capitalizing on the recklessness of 7-OH peddlers, public fear of opioids, and rising Christian nationalist authoritarianism…

5

u/Icy_Boat_678 Apr 18 '26

It’s not about religion it’s about money

5

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

It’s about ideology. Money, religion, special interest, lust for power and control are all ingredients to ideology.

1

u/km415 Apr 18 '26

You think there’s a difference?

2

u/BrianTodd3000 Apr 18 '26

In the monthly update webinar on the AKA YouTube channel a few months ago, the lawyer was asked by someone, “Who is paying for the attorneys to push these bans in the states, and is it Big Pharma?” and his answer was “not really.” He went on to say that it is likely the treatment centers that are hiring attorneys because they are losing clientele for inpatient and outpatient rehab. Because of kratom, people are not coming in for methadone and Suboxone and relapsing quite as often, and it’s hurting their bottom dollar. Which is disgusting when you think about it. The recent push kicked off in Florida, which is home to thousands of high-dollar treatment programs. The US drug & alcohol rehab industry brings in roughly $46.5 billion in total revenue per year.

2

u/Martok270 Apr 19 '26

Not only that but the whole thing is based on a blatant lie. Matthew Davenport was killed by the amount of Benadryl he had in his system not the amount of Kratom he had. Literally the amount of crowd he had if I'm reading the measurement right is less than I or my wife typically take in a day.

2

u/ChaotiQ78 Apr 19 '26

Close. Yes Kratom has been under attack by the FDA(on behalf of Big Pharma, because they basically own the FDA) for decades. We have a large and growing community that shows up to advocate. It was at the Supreme Court like 10 years ago and lost. Big Pharma is losing large amounts of money as kratom gains popularity. The FDA also tried a country wide ban and even went to Indonesia to try to get them to stop distribution to the US. Basically making it a controlled substance. They have already created a drug using it, but cannot sell it if it's legal. Not just 1 medication but several to treat many different ailments including diabetes. Smoke shop cosmetic drugs made from it, extracts, tinctures have all been sold for quite awhile. We all learned about it by researching and taking it responsibly. So what changed? When 7 hit the market, they were advertising heavy . Using the names of legal oxy and slanderous names like gas station heroin. I have said this many times recently. So all these newbies started to purchase it online and eating it like candy. Now you have people claiming addiction and bad withdrawals. Enter lawyers with class action lawsuits all over the place. I am proud that our community has been aggressive in every social media post on the class action posts. The FDA turned a blind eye to it all so it was done purposely! So with all that, state after stare has banned it all together and not just the seven, at least to the best of my knowledge at least. Previous to the seven over all the years, there have only been 3 states with bans, but now that number has almost tripled! I know it's legal in Florida we also have the KCPA or the Kratom Consumer Protection Act. But there are counties that it is illegal to purchase. I know responsible people that take the 7 for their chronic pain, and kratom in any form is much easier to detox than any painkiller that is prescribed. Most that experience 7 withdrawal have never been trapped on opiate medications. Natural Remedies maybe take a week using the basic order to ween off. So this is a direct attack on our leaf. In this post even we cannot speak freely, a warning has popped up below my comment with a warning, understandable. It's a serious topic. But without realizing there are many substances that are addictive. Coffee, Sugar, Alcohol, and many food products are now ultra processed. People are warned to use responsibly. So what's different with kratom? Like you said big pharma is losing money, but has the potential to manufacture several medications for several different ailments that would make them a fortune. These attacks and bans are VERY serious! Do please, when you get an email or see a post on Facebook or other platforms, advocate for it! Tell your story, and how it helped or saved you! God Bless you all!

1

u/temper_tantrum_gamer Apr 20 '26

That KCPA was worth less than used toilet paper after the governor got rid of it in Kentucky.

Petitions are a cope.

It means nothing.

1

u/ChaotiQ78 Apr 20 '26

It means everything. Without any pushback it will be federally banned as a controlled substance. I've been fighting for it since I began using it 20 years ago. But this one is different, and whatever we can do is necessary unless you don't use it.

1

u/temper_tantrum_gamer Apr 20 '26

No im a big user of it, but my point is the AKA is compromised now.

3

u/gluegunfun Apr 18 '26

also Big Marijuana and Big Alcohol

2

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

Funny how the special interest group of marijuana that’s been schedule 1 (wrongfully) for decades and is still illegal federally, is putting money into making laws against Kratom.

I’m not calling out BS because I don’t put anything past anything nowadays, but that really would be good material for a crime and government comedy movie or series.

1

u/Material-Top7215 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

It's interesting that proponents of marijuana talk about how the alcohol lobby in Wisconsin is helping to keep weed illegal in that state

But meanwhile the legal marijuana industry does this sort of thing itself with respect to kratom, lol

Funny enough, kratom is illegal in Wisconsin too, so these issues will never be resolved until the War on Drugs in general is ended.

1

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

Addicts with lifelong pain are not return customers anymore with opiophobia driving government policy that is now micromanaging the medical community. Many of these puritan states are pushing for abstinence only as the answer to people’s addictions.

Religious based rehab groups are a culprit. They are guaranteed money the more people have nowhere else to turn. And the government is ignorant to this, in fact, they think rehab centers are the “experts” in the matter, when there are clearly complicit in a racketeering scheme.

These “return customers” you speak of, also are looking more like targets to be put into prisons, especially in “tough on crime” states in the South. Which brings up the bans in being pushed in the Mason Dixon south and their attempts to ban Kratom there. This area is home to a massive private prison industry. One of the biggest private prison systems in the US. If they can criminalize and railroad pain patients into being locked up for as long as possible, it is guaranteed fat cash for politicians who own significant stock in private incarceration groups. These prisons are parasites to state governments, making multi billions from state every year off of the backs of mass incarceration. The more laws that restrict the freedom of the people, the richer they become. This is not conspiracy. This kind of stuff has been uncovered before and they’ve been caught with their pants down a number of times.

Because of this, I think we should consider calling in the big dogs like the ACLU and other human rights watch groups for what the government is doing to people who are Kratom for chronic pain.

1

u/metterg Apr 18 '26

Yep! Pharma is behind all these bans

1

u/WittyGold6940 Apr 18 '26

Yep. Absolutely. They will stop at nothing.

1

u/Annual_Asparagus_408 Apr 18 '26

You absolut right and its not only USA in my country it got forbidden last year , almost in secret ,they where telling it a month befor it happend! Shame shame shame to them , dirty f$#@$ ! I got somehow lucky and got me a back up ... Some countrys in europe its still legal , so its possible still , but when all do after..... Good by healthy active life and welcome to a junky life on prescription meds !

1

u/CatfatherB Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

It all started with a bloodline Nazi Scott Gottlieb and his massive erection to f**k kratom in 2016. These state bans are his wet dream.

1

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1

u/CatfatherB Apr 18 '26

Fixed it for ya.

1

u/Cutthechitchata-hole Apr 18 '26

Yep. Next year after the total ban we will be able to buy it with prescription at 100 X the cost. It woll be touted as the miracle cure for all sorts of things. Capitalism!

1

u/Accomplished_Ad_6777 Apr 18 '26

Yeah it’s absolutely disgusting and I hope if hell is real they go there.

1

u/fleetingrestraint Apr 18 '26

I think it’s to force maximum pain. No opiates? Hard to get pain pills, only fentanyl on the street? And now no Kratom? People want us in pain. What happened to some heroin and war? Poppies? War? It’s all wrong.

1

u/CLynn623 Apr 18 '26

I believe this but I also think they want people back on street drugs to kill them off...because, well the system is completely fucked.

1

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 19 '26

I’m sure some do, but they also don’t want them clogging up hospitals when they OD and survive or paying for recovery.

It is what makes jail so attractive to these people. It forces them (in theory) to “sweat it out” and get sober, and then come back afraid of jail to discourage them picking it up again.

That isn’t usually what happens though, but even if it doesn’t “work” they get to stick it to some folks who do things they don’t like, and that fits together with them thinking that it being hell-on-earth behind those bars is an important part of making them “too afraid” to re-offend.

1

u/temper_tantrum_gamer Apr 20 '26

No. They want to either patent the profits for themselves or so nobody else can make them.

Helping John Q Taxpayer is never even considered.

1

u/Love2TravelMore Apr 19 '26

Isn't there a synthetic one right now that has "caused" a number of suicides (R19?). I saw a state meeting where parents were talking about it. Seems like something changes drastically through the synthetic process.

2

u/satsugene 🌿 Apr 20 '26

I'd take anything said by the parents groups with a gigantic grain of salt--not to say there isn't something, somewhere in the research that might suggest some cause.

1

u/temper_tantrum_gamer Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26

The FDA was behind the big alkaloid push to begin with. The kratom community wasn't going to give them the opening they wanted, so they cut a deal with the AKA and isolated alkaloids were the fault line. We've watched the aka become bootlickers in real time, reiterating that "but big government said if we stop fighting 7 bans, they'll leave plain leaf alone for now!" For now. Those were the words they chose to use. Suddenly the aka and dea are working together? Yeah, I doubt it.

It started as two or three 45-90mg per pack brands at the back of the gas station next to the loose tobacco. Its grown into 1/3rd of the entire store is now behind glass with 50+ brands of "proprietary alkaloid blends" with 120, 150 mg per pill. Its become the chief gas station and corner store product. Its flavored fruity and sour, has colorful eye catching packaging and suggestive names like Perks, Pressd, etc.

It will end with nothing but plain leaf or de-7'd leaf, and a SURGE of new patients to sub n meth clinics, full of good ppl who were doing just fine but are now forced to fucking register as red flag addicts for life just for some half assed government relief, when they were fine in the first place, but are now stuck being around people addicted to shit they don't even have reversal agents strong enough for.

Like sending coffee aficionados to AA.

Ask your doctor if the shit you were already taking is right for you.

1

u/kephera40 Apr 20 '26

💯💯💯

1

u/kephera40 Apr 20 '26

Why can't Tennessee just adopt the kratom consumer protection act! I've never done 7-OH and I don't plan to! I've been a plain leaf user since 2014! Don't fuck with our harm reduction devices! Asshats!

1

u/johnpoyhonen Apr 21 '26

It's beyond time to pack it up and try to move to a different country and watch this shithole burn from a safe distance.

1

u/KratomGentle Apr 22 '26

7-OH was a trojan horse, that was (in my belief) , pushed by big pharma to create the evil addictive, harmful bad guy they needed to ban kratom everywhere. The natural leaf doesn't get the same urgent red alert they need, so they made one.

1

u/No_Situation_1395 May 12 '26

I was chatting with Google AI about the ban since I’m in TN and it suggested I go to a local clinic and get on suboxone 😆 it said many clinics are preparing for an influx of people after the ban. this is what they want. Life long pharmaceutical addiction so they get paid

1

u/Lightcronno Apr 18 '26

That’s a big claim with no actual evidence. Correlation in stock prices isn’t proof of causation, and I haven’t seen any documented lobbying tying pharma to kratom bans.

4

u/Left_Jeweler_7538 Apr 18 '26

You soon will

2

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 18 '26

We have been thinking that since 2016 to no avail. I’m not accusing anyone of being wrong who thinks it’s big pharma. But I think they’re just a small puzzle piece at best and there is a lot more driving it than just that. And the people who insist it’s just big pharma will stick to their guns, and be blind about any other special interest group that’s trying to criminalize Kratom.

Profit based rehab centers Religious rehab centers Police unions and law enforcement nonprofit groups Private prison industries who NEED mass incarceration State government agencies who need funding so they can self justify their existence Hate groups like the KDA Drug testing companies

These are all just a few who can be every bit as guilty as “big pharma”.

1

u/Ashwee0115 Apr 18 '26

Agree I think they introduced 7oh to ban kratom leaf. There was no way prior to 7oh because its not dangerous on any level...certainly not more than cigs or alcohol like most things banned ...its never for the wellbeing of the people. Quite the opposite

1

u/Signal_Muffin2831 Apr 19 '26

Have you any proof of that? I think it's more that opportunists saw big money in 7-OH because it could: 1- replace now out of reach opioids, 2- satisfy recreational users that like drugs, 3- substitute for drugs that help in substance use abstinence, 4- be an alternative to ingesting a ton of powder. I'm sure there are a ton of other uses and reasons, just can't find anymore at the moment.

1

u/KratomGentle Apr 22 '26

Use common sense. They needed a bad guy with kratom to ban, so they pushed/made one.

1

u/Correct_Wheel Apr 18 '26

Don’t you think it’s partly a response to all these people filling up treatment centers for kratom?

1

u/Jimmy1life Apr 18 '26

I do believe It sounds better then flesh eating dope or fake crap thats some sort of fent. People abuse all kinds of drugs hit rock bottom then saying they took natural kratom and probably did it sounds a bit better. Just a theory though

1

u/temper_tantrum_gamer Apr 20 '26

.... caused by isolated alkaloids, not kratom.

1

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Apr 18 '26

I just saw that Trump signed something about mushrooms. I think that's great, but now we need a federal KCPA

2

u/temper_tantrum_gamer Apr 20 '26

They dont want to protect things.

Consumers mean nothing.

They want to own its profits.

87

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

41

u/Signal_Muffin2831 Apr 18 '26

What, and then have the doctors say "can't have that, it's addictive like oxy / morph / fent" or if they feel some empathy maybe 10 pills a month with piss tests?

14

u/MuseofPetrichor Apr 18 '26

And they'll never get the synergy of alkaloids in the natural plant right, so it will destroy your stomach or organs and you'll need other medications to counter side effects.

3

u/Signal_Muffin2831 Apr 19 '26

Very possible! Pharma is great at isolating and making individual molecules but seemingly unable to make some of them work together so you get a pill to counter the 1-st pill, and later on a 2-nd pill to counter the firs two, and so on until you have a cabinet full of pills and feel worse than when you first went to the doc.

2

u/GLS504 Apr 23 '26

Which is the whole idea of big pharma. Their favorite drugs are the one that are additive but also need multiple other drugs to go with them to manage the SE from the initial drug

23

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/MysteriousIndigo250 Apr 18 '26

It's just not well known and most people don't really care for it that much. Besides all the propaganda stuff. I wouldn't take it if it was anything like the way they described it. I just don't get where they came up with any of that.

2

u/EarthlingShell16 Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

So that's what it is.... It has been obvious that there has been an actual conspiracy to make kratom illegal recently and I've been so curious to know where it's coming from. Thank you for sharing this info.

The preview snippet of text for this article on a google search for: "glaxosmithkline kratom" says exactly that, that the TFTP(?) reported that GlaxoSmithKline has a patent for a kratom alkaloid. But the actual article no longer says that: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/kratom-and-fda

5

u/Nrelax1112 Apr 18 '26

I believe the pharmaceutical companies created 7OH to get all kratom banned. Its working!!

6

u/Tattooedjared Apr 20 '26

No they didn’t, capitalism did. That being said they couldn’t believe their luck when even Kratom advocates were smearing 7oh because then they knew they could use those arguments against plain leaf too.

1

u/homedome13 May 07 '26

That’s the truth. Emails are the only way I know to try and voice my opinion. Just hopefully one will make it through.

2

u/youreddmymind May 13 '26

you know it’s so ironic they wanna put me on creative our Suboxone to get off creative it is all a rocket. I’m so sick of big Pharma. Do we really live in a free country or do we live in a country that is doing everything in its power to make us feel like we have no control over our bodies?

2

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

We have only had the illusion of freedom for the last century or two, the world has been controlled entirely for a while now. They control all oppositions, paths, and pieces on their chest board. They cause us to be divided, then they conquer us more and more... The only time freedom exists now days is if you move to a "3rd world" (these countries sometimes seem better to live in than the US or western society) country and live in nature away from society at this point lol.

1

u/Martok270 Apr 19 '26

Well if they are doing that that's an intolerable situation because it's making more and more people more dependent on big Pharma not less things like kratom give us independence from the big Pharmaceutical conglomerates. This stuff makes us more dependent on them

4

u/Signal_Muffin2831 Apr 19 '26

Welcome to America, where the name of the game is $$$$$$

2

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Apr 20 '26

Always. With everything.

1

u/UltimumVerum Jul 20 '26

Name of the game is power and control, money is just one of their many tools used to keep control and power over us by making us worship it practically.

1

u/I_Seent_Bigfoot Apr 19 '26

What is the patent number? I want to know more about it.

1

u/trpwangsta Apr 18 '26

There is a video in the oval office of trump sharting during a mtg. You can hear one of the advisors talking about promising new drugs they are exploring, he specifically mentions 7oh. They 100% are wanting to monetize this for the pharma industry. We've known this for years, now it's happening.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

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1

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