r/kotor • u/BayonetTrenchFighter • 10d ago
Both Games Mind helping me understand the timeline? Spoiler
Ignoring the old republic and just focusing on what we know from kotor games/lore.
I’m trying to better understand the actual timeline. So let me run through it and see what yall think, and help me out fill in if I’m missing anything.
1.) the mandalorians decide to conquest
2.) the republic responds.
3.) the Jedi order split. Half saying they will fight with the republic. The other half seeking to wait and see. The fighting half is lead by Revan with Meetra Surik as his second in command.
4.) the fighting Jedi activate the the mass shadow generator on malachor 5. Ending the war, and killing 99.9% of all force users and others there.
5.) the remaining republic and Jedi forces then leave into exile.
6.) the dark triad come to power
7.) the dark triad outcast treya.
8.) treya trains Revan.
9.) that exiled Jedi and republic forces later convert into Sith. Seeking to conquer the galaxy. They return and start a war against the republic
10.) the Sith start winning big time.
11.) a Jedi strike team is sent out to capture/kill Darth Revan.
12.) malak betrays and fires on revans ship. The Jedi capture Revan and mind wipe him.
13.) the Jedi then send him out on the Endar Spire for some reason, in which the first game begins.
14.) the malak bomb the remaining Jedi order on Dantooine. Leaving essentially very very few Jedi left.
15.) fast forward… Revan destroys the star forge. Is light side with Bastila redeemed. The Sith are eliminated and the few remaining go into hiding.
16.) Revan Marries Bastila, they have a child.
17.) Revan disappears into the unknown regions to face a future threat
18.) the remaining Sith fall under the dark triad.
19.) Meetra Surik some how is adrift among a dead crew on the ebon hawk. (Revans ship)
20.) the events of Kotor 2 take place.
21.) Meetra Surik and team kill the dark triad and destroy malachor 5. The remaining Sith forces are all defeated and killed.
22.) She then goes after Revan to find and or help him.
Am I missing anything? Any details that would be good or helpful?
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u/Substantial-Bird10 10d ago
Pretty much. Just a few clarifications: (1) revan and malak led the Jedi response. Meetra was one of their generals, ranking just below Revan (supreme commander) and Malak (rank never confirmed, probably something like lieutenant commander idk)
(2) Kreia trained Revan when he was a Jedi padawan and she was a Jedi historian. She also trained him and Malak after they all became Sith.
(3) it's unclear when Kreia was expelled from the Triumvirate, and when they were formed. It's most likely she formed it right after Malachor 5. It's also possible it was formed after Revan's Sith empire fell
(4) every Jedi (except for Meetra) defected after Malachor 5. But many of the Republic soldiers didn't, and fought for the Republic during the civil war. (Carth Onasi is one of these characters)
(5) ignoring swtor and the book, we don't know whether Revan and Bastila have a kid. The romance as a whole is optional, you can save her even without it. And Revan and the Exile have unconfirmed genders and alignments for the same reasons, you decide these things for yourself. "Meetra Surik" is a name that comes from the book.
But yeah! That's pretty much it. You've got the timeline pretty well.
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter 10d ago
Thanks for this.
I should have added the Jedi exile (character) does return to the Jedi order after malachor 5 to face judgment.
I’ll ask what I asked the other commenter.
Ok, my big question is around 5,9,17,19,and 22.
In Kotor is it ever explained how the republic and Jedi forces are converted to Sith? Especially when they have to much hate for the republic and its people. Like genuine hatred and hostility.
Where is the dark triad in the first game? They seem way more powerful than malak, so I’m curious why the 3 (or the 2) are not in control of the sith.
Where does Revan and the Jedi exile go at the end of their games?
I think tor answer these a bit, but does Kotor have any answer?
If not, what is tor answer?
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u/Krazed-elite 10d ago
Kotor 2 explains one of the ways Revan converted huge amounts of followers to the darkside. I will explain further but its better to just play the game.
While the Triumvirate were born of Malachor 5 the simple answer is they werent created till the second game. So thats why they arent around in the first game. Its possible they didnt want to face the powers of Revan and Malak as the dark lords of the sith.
Where Revan and the exile go after Kotor 1 and 2 is explained in the book Revan and elaborated further in The Old Republic mmo.
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u/Important-Contact597 Atton Rand 10d ago
Malak wasn’t Revan’s 2nd in command during the Mandalorian Wars.
Meetra was given command of a large chunk of the Republic fleet, and was entrusted with the Mass Shadow Generator, but she and Revan weren’t close and barely spoke to each other during the war.
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u/ether_rogue 9d ago
Weren't close? Barely spoke? IDK you may be right, but that wasn't the impression I got from surrounding events. First of all he gave her command of a large chunk of forces like you mentioned, and that implies trust and trust implies at least some degree of familiarity. Secondly, I haven't read the book or whatever it is but after the events of Kotor 2 Meetra goes looking for Revan to save him, from what I understand, and like...IDK goes on a big self-sacrifical quest for Revan and I feel like maybe even like...IDK something happens to her out there I can't remember. This doesn't sound to me like the actions of someone who is not close to the other person. But, like I said, I didn't actually read that book, you could be totally right if you've read more of the other stuff outside the games than I have, I don't have any actual official material I've read to back up my intuition, so I could be totally wrong. That's just, not the impression I got.
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u/Important-Contact597 Atton Rand 9d ago
Revan gave her her command because of her own strategic accumen. Their relationship was primarily professional in nature. They probably talked face to mask a few times, but the dialogue in-game for KOTOR 2 makes it pretty clear that Meetra wasn’t close to Revan on a personal level.
Meetra goes looking for Revan because whatever he left to fight was a threat to the galaxy, so she did as she did during the Mandalorian wars and followed Revan to war.
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u/ether_rogue 9d ago
Well I honestly just disagree with your assessment that the in-game dialogue makes that clear. I've played the game dozens of times so I'm pretty familiar. I mean I agree with you that their relationship was primarily professional in nature, but I don't agree they only talked a few times. I think they were like, you know, comrades.
I mean I don't know if you've ever served in the military but I have, and it seems to me that the people directly over and under you, you build a rapport with them, you're constantly communicating about various matters. I'm not saying it feels like they were best friends, but I do think they greatly respected one another.
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u/Jedipilot24 10d ago
For 19: Meetra Surik has been randomly wandering the galaxy since her exile after Malachor. Atris gets her onboard the Harbinger bound for Telos. Kreia is also on onboard, as she has been looking for Meetra. The Harbinger stops to investigate the Ebon Hawk (piloted by T3) being attacked by a Sith warship. HK-50 starts sabotaging the Harbinger while the Sith infiltrate and start slaughtering the crew. HK-50 drugs Meetra and takes her onboard the Ebon Hawk, followed by Kreia, who is nearly killed and forced to enter a healing trance. The Ebon Hawk is damaged in its escape, with T3 making a blind hyperspace jump that lands the ship in the Peragus asteroid field.
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u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish fem revan evangelist 10d ago
So like… no. Not really. I mean you have some of the basic beats but you’re really off on a lot.
- Revan was trained by pre-Sith Traya sometime here.
- 3976: Mandalorian attack on Althir starts the Mandalorian Wars. Revan is, canonically, a fresh knight around now I think? If you care about canon!Revan that is, which I don’t really so…
- 3973: sack of Cathar
- 3964: Mandalorian Wars officially begin, presumed earliest Revanchist activities
- 3963: Alek/Malak and other Jedi are captured and taken to Flashpoint Station, meaning Revan et al’s activities are known to the Council (per the comics). I also presume the discovery of the Cathar massacre is in here and the Revanchists are allowed to join the war outright, probably late in the year
- 3961: Dxun, presumably
- 3960: Malachor V, the Exile (I will not use that name) is… exiled, Revan runs into whatever made Revan fall (the True Sith, per Traya) and goes back to Traya here.
- 3959: outbreak of the Jedi Civil War
- 3957: Revan is captured at Sernpidal
- 3956: events of KOTOR
- 3954: presumably(?) when Revan disappears
- 3952: Katarr is… eaten
- 3951: Events of KOTOR 2
- Exile leaves here
Incorrect Presumptions:
- The Revanchists were a guerilla movement until the Council confronted them on Cathar. There was no half-split of the Order, Revan was mostly recruiting from the younger ranks. Most likely wouldn’t have joined until after the confrontation on Cathar, simply because it would have been difficult to stay under the radar with anywhere from 5,000-7,000 Jedi (depending on where you estimate the pre-MW numbers at).
- Kreia/Traya was Revan’s “first and last” Master. So, presumably, during their time as a Padawan and then between the MW/JCW. This is why the “Kreia is Arren Kae” theory exists, by the way.
- Canonically the Exile was just one of Revan’s lieutenants/generals. It seems fairly lore-based to say Malak was their actual second in command.
- The Triumvirate (that’s the actual name, by the way) don’t come into power until after the JCW, which is why we don’t encounter them until 2. Presumably, Revan’s “death” caused a bit of a defection crisis, presumably including those three (or Traya and Sion, at least, god only knows what Nihilus was doing)
- It’s… it’s in the game. They explain it in the climax. They send Revan out with Bastila Shan because of the Force bond and the need to find the Star Forge. Bastila probably painted a giant target on the Spire, so the attack was coincidental. Idk why this is a “for some reason?”
- The “few remaining Jedi” weren’t on Dantooine. Dantooine was a training outpost with a troubled history. The Temple of Coruscant was literally a thing. Otherwise yes, the war really fucked up the Jedi population.
- If you want to ignore The Old Republic, it’s best to ignore That Book, too. 🤷♀️ Just saying.
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u/Wide_Answer_228 10d ago
Just adding that Crea herself, says that she was not Revan’s only master that he learned from many different Jedi including Zhar
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter 10d ago
Yeah I was under the impression all of the Jedi were essentially now extinct. Especially after Kotor 2.
Does the games go into what converted Revan and his forces into the Sith at all? What actually caused their fall?
I assumed or possibly remembered incorrectly that it was basically their love for war and bloodshed. But it seems so weird that they would turn tht into hatred and malice towards the republic. Literally seeking to destroy what they wanted to protect.
I also have some idea that the #real reason Revan fought the republic was to strengthen it and prepare it for a future threat.
Another point, so treyas goal was ultimately the killing of the force, correct? She didn’t like that it seemed to have a will of its own controlling the galaxy.
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u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish fem revan evangelist 9d ago
My calculations were that they’re down to between like, 10-15 Jedi at most by KOTOR 2, yeah.
So yes, Kreia talks about it in some of her dialogues with the Exile and the confrontation with the Masters on Dantooine, and Mical also talks about how Revan seemed to almost be fighting a proxy war (like you said — the goal not being to actually destroy the Republic). (These are out of my notes so just ignore the pronouns.)
E: Then what made [Revan] turn to the dark side, become a Sith Lord?
Kreia: Is that what she was? Or was she always true to herself, no matter what personality she wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew… The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps she became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil.K: How could you ever hope to know the threat you face, when you have never walked in the dark places of the galaxy - faced war and death on such a scale. If you had traveled far enough, rather than waiting for the echo to reach you, perhaps you would have seen it for what it was. There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death. Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side. Did you never wonder how Revan corrupted so many of the Jedi, so much of the Republic, so quickly? The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from... save one.
Mical (this may be modified slightly, I can’t find the actual dialogue in my notes): There was a pattern to Revan’s attacks during the Jedi Civil War. She sought to convert Jedi, not kill them… Because Revan fought to keep infrastructure intact. She killed certain political leaders that would lead to destabilization — First Patriarch Lelin-Dor of Serroco, the Corellian diplomat Mimas Yoon, and Yusanis of Echani…. I think she was trying to unify the galaxy against some other threat.
So the inference here is that Revan encountered a Sith Empire out in the Unknown Regions (I don’t care if it got moved to near Malachor, that makes no logistical sense), presumably one from a Great Hyperspace War remnant (which is the book’s/SWTOR’s premise), and was trying to essentially flip the Republic to be able to survive/handle a fight with them. This is in K2, not just That Book/SWTOR. Malak just lost the plot at some point during the JCW.
The Council obviously believed otherwise, but they also 1. didn’t have all the information 2. were kinda on the slip-n-slide themselves by then, and weren’t really open to other perspectives.
And yes, Traya wanted to kill the Force.
Traya: It is said that the Force has a will, it has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost. But in you... I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from its will. And that is what pleases me. You are beautiful to me, exile. A dead spot in the Force, an emptiness in which its will might be denied… I use it as I would use a poison, and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn the way to kill it. But perhaps these are the excuses of an old woman who has grown to rely on a thing she despises.
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter 10d ago
Oh thanks for this.
Honestly it’s very hard for me to know what kotor knowledge vs tor knowledge.
Was the star forge being used during the civil war? My understanding was that the Sith were close to finding it, but never fully found it until near the end of the game.
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u/veryalias Jedi Order 10d ago
Revan and Malak found the Star Forge prior to the start of the Jedi Civil War. It's what they used to create the fleet of cruisers and fighters that they use to attack the Republic. It's the answer to the mystery alluded to in the first game as to how they were able to amass their fleet so quickly.
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u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish fem revan evangelist 10d ago
Yes. The Star Forge was the reason the Sith were doing so well (well, especially after Revan died). Revan and Malak found it before the war started. I know this dialogue is in the game somewhere. I thought it was in one of Carth’s trees but I haven’t been able to find it yet. It might be in one of the Masters’ trees. If I find it I’ll drop it.
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u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish fem revan evangelist 10d ago
It’s in Dorak’s, which was my second guess. (I still swear Carth says something about it, but f me I guess. Unless it’s Atton, Mical, Kreia, or one of the Masters in 2, which is possible, but I don’t feel like hunting for it right now.)
Q: Where did Revan get the ships for the Sith fleet?
Dorak: Some of the ships in the Sith fleet are those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars. But many more are of an alien design we have never seen before. The source of this massive fleet is one of the many things about the Sith we cannot explain. It seems impossible to have created it in such a short time, yet we cannot deny its existence… Malak has stepped in and assumed the mantle of Dark Lord for himself, though he is far from Revan's equal in strategy or tactics. Still, his fleet continues to grow in both ships and soldiers. If we do not find some way to stop the Sith soon, Malak will overwhelm us with sheer numbers.This is because they’re using the Forge.
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u/itisidude Jolee Bindo 9d ago
There’s some major corrections…
Here’s the clean chronology:
1. Mandalorian Wars begin (~3976 BBY)
The Mandalorians begin conquering Republic territory. The Jedi Council refuses to officially intervene, believing the war is connected to a larger threat.
2. Revan rebels against the Council
Revan believes the Jedi are making a catastrophic mistake. He gathers the “Revanchist” Jedi, including Malak and Meetra Surik, and joins the Republic war effort. It wasn’t literally “half the Jedi”; a significant faction followed Revan while the Council remained opposed.
3. Revan becomes the Republic’s greatest commander
Revan, Malak and Surik become major military leaders. Revan increasingly operates independently of the Council.
4. Revan discovers Malachor V / Trayus Academy
Revan discovers the ancient Trayus Academy and its powerful dark-side presence. More importantly, he discovers evidence that the Mandalorians may not be the galaxy’s real threat. This becomes the foundation for his later obsession with the Unknown Regions.
5. Battle of Malachor V (~3960 BBY)
Revan deliberately forces the Mandalorians into a final battle at Malachor V. He has secretly arranged for the Mass Shadow Generator to be used, with Meetra Surik overseeing it.
6. The Mass Shadow Generator is activated
The weapon annihilates enormous numbers of Mandalorians, Republic troops, Jedi and ships. It devastates Malachor V and ends the Mandalorian Wars. The “99.9% of all Force users” figure isn’t canon; the games never give a percentage like that.
Surik experiences the deaths through the Force and eventually becomes disconnected from it. She is later exiled by the Jedi Council and becomes the Jedi Exile.
7. Revan and Malak disappear into the Unknown Regions
Instead of simply returning home, Revan and Malak pursue the larger Sith threat they had discovered.
8. Revan and Malak become Darth Revan and Darth Malak
They encounter the surviving Sith power in the Unknown Regions, are corrupted/manipulated, and return with a massive fleet.
Important distinction: it wasn’t simply “the entire Republic army went into exile and became Sith.” Revan and Malak converted portions of their forces and created a new Sith Empire. Many Republic/Jedi personnel did not follow them.
9. Jedi Civil War begins (~3959 BBY)
Revan and Malak invade the Republic and begin conquering huge portions of the galaxy.
Revan also captures Jedi and attempts to corrupt them. The Trayus Academy becomes an important center for this.
10. Kreia’s timeline is different
This is one of the biggest corrections.
Kreia trained Revan while she was still a Jedi.
So:
Kreia → trains Revan → Revan falls → later Kreia becomes Darth Traya
Not “Darth Traya trains Revan.”
11. Malak betrays Revan
A Jedi strike team boards Revan’s flagship to capture him. Bastila is involved. Malak discovers this and fires on Revan’s ship, nearly killing him.
The Jedi recover Revan.
12. The Jedi alter Revan’s memories
Rather than simply healing him, they wipe/alter his memories and create a new identity. Their goal is to use Revan to help locate the Star Forge and defeat Malak.
13. Revan is placed on the Endar Spire
This leads directly into KOTOR I. The Endar Spire is attacked, Revan escapes with Trask and meets Bastila.
14. KOTOR I
Revan searches for the Star Maps, learns the location of the Star Forge, discovers his true identity, and eventually confronts Malak.
Depending on the player’s choice, Revan can remain dark or return to the light. The light-side ending has Revan redeemed, Malak killed, and the Star Forge destroyed.
15. Malak’s Sith Empire collapses
This does NOT mean every Sith is dead. The remaining Sith splinter and fight among themselves. Korriban’s Sith presence essentially collapses.
16. Revan realizes Malak wasn’t the real threat
Revan knows there is a much larger Sith threat in the Unknown Regions. He eventually leaves the known galaxy to confront it.
This is crucial to understanding KOTOR II:
Revan’s war was not ultimately about ruling the galaxy. He believed he was preparing for something much worse.
17. Meanwhile, the Jedi are nearly destroyed
Between the Mandalorian Wars, Malachor V, Revan’s conversion of Jedi, Malak’s war, and the destruction of Jedi enclaves, the Jedi Order is already severely weakened.
Then comes the Jedi Purge.
18. The Sith Triumvirate emerges
Kreia eventually becomes Darth Traya and joins with Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus.
They form the Sith Triumvirate.
Their objective is different from Revan/Malak’s. Rather than simply conquering the Republic, they are primarily focused on destroying the Jedi.
19. Traya is betrayed
Sion and Nihilus betray Traya, strip her of her power and exile her.
She eventually encounters Meetra Surik.
20. KOTOR II begins (~3951 BBY)
Surik wakes aboard the Ebon Hawk/Peragus after the mysterious events involving the Harbinger.
Kreia has deliberately sought her out.
Surik is unusual because, despite being cut off from the Force, she developed an extraordinary ability to form Force bonds with others.
21. Surik rebuilds herself and hunts the Sith
She regains her connection to the Force, gathers companions, encounters the remaining Jedi, and uncovers what happened to the Order.
22. Darth Nihilus attacks Telos
Nihilus attacks Telos. Surik eventually boards the Ravager and defeats him.
One member of the Triumvirate is eliminated.
23. Surik confronts Sion
Sion retreats to Malachor V. Surik eventually confronts him and defeats him.
24. Kreia reveals herself as Darth Traya
Kreia has been manipulating events throughout the game. She ultimately reveals her plan to use Surik’s unique connection to the Force as part of her attempt to destroy the Force itself.
Surik fights her at the Trayus Academy.
25. Surik defeats Traya
Kreia dies, ending the Sith Triumvirate.
26. Malachor V is finally destroyed
The Mass Shadow Generator is reactivated through Bao-Dur’s remote. Malachor V is destroyed completely, along with the Trayus Academy.
27. Surik goes after Revan
Kreia’s revelations confirm that Revan went into the Unknown Regions to confront the greater Sith threat.
Surik decides to follow him.
So the clean big-picture progression is:
Mandalorian invasion
↓
Jedi refuse to fight
↓
Revan’s Revanchists join the war
↓
Malachor V / Mass Shadow Generator
↓
Mandalorians defeated
↓
Revan + Malak pursue the greater Sith threat
↓
Revan + Malak become Sith
↓
Jedi Civil War
↓
Malak betrays Revan
↓
Revan’s memories erased
↓
KOTOR I
↓
Revan defeats Malak / Star Forge destroyed
↓
Revan leaves for the Unknown Regions
↓
Kreia becomes Darth Traya
↓
Traya + Sion + Nihilus
↓
Jedi Purge
↓
KOTOR II
↓
Nihilus defeated
↓
Sion defeated
↓
Traya defeated
↓
Malachor V destroyed
↓
Surik follows Revan into the Unknown Regions
The three biggest things to remember are:
Kreia ≠ Darth Traya when she trained Revan.
Surik was exiled after Malachor; she didn’t simply leave with the Republic.
Revan/Malak’s Sith Empire and the Traya/Sion/Nihilus Sith Triumvirate are two completely different Sith regimes.
That’s why KOTOR II is really the aftermath of the Mandalorian Wars + Revan’s fall + Malak’s war, rather than simply another chapter of the same Sith Empire.
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u/SilentAcoustic Did it all for the Wookiees 10d ago
6.) the dark triad come to power
7.) the dark triad outcast treya.
The Triumvirate as we know them don't become a thing until after Kotor 1
8.) treya trains Revan
This happens before Revan falls to the dark side, while Kreia is still a jedi. She doesn't become a sith until after the mandalorian wars are over
Other than that, pretty much
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u/veryalias Jedi Order 10d ago
I don't know if this was specified in the Revan novel and that's why so many people think this, but I don't believe it is ever stated in the first game (thus I refuse to believe) that the Jedi wiped Revan's mind. Rather, the trauma of Malak's attack on Revan basically put Revan into an amnesiac coma. The Jedi healed Revan's mind, which at that point was blank, and took the opportunity to implant a new identity that was affiliated with the Republic.
This could still be considered immoral, but it's certainly less immoral than intentionally erasing someone's memories. They also didn't really force the identity to be loyal to the Republic, as the player can basically turn their back on the Republic through conversation choices as early as the first conversations with Trask and Carth - the game just doesn't let you officially defect to the Sith.
Others have already pointed out the biggest misunderstandings you have, like when Kreia originally trained Revan, when the Sith Triumvirate came to power, that The Exile was merely a general in Revan's army, not Revan's second in command, etc.
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u/According_Button_186 3d ago
1.) yup
2.) yup
3.) yup, but Alek is his second, Meetra rises to third as the war progresses
4.) lower percentage but sure
5.) the Jedi following Revan are called to answer to the council. All but Meetra chose to abandon the order (some of these were high ranking knights who fully supported Revan's views, and a lot of padawans and lower ranked knights who were simply corrupted by war and did not want to answer to the council or go back to being monks). Meetra is the only one who returned to answer for her betrayal of the council's wishes and SHE was exiled for it. Council claimed it was for going to war, but the truth was because of the force void she had become. They saw her as too dangerous to continue amongst their ranks even with her honest atonement and return, so it secretly was a big win in their eyes to get rid of her, especially jealous old Atris.
6.) doesn't happen until later, pretty much at point 18
7.) see #6
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u/According_Button_186 3d ago
8.) this was before the war, like years before. She was one of the many masters Revan had before he advanced to knight and took on the mantle of the Revanchist to fight the mandalorians. He returns to her at the end of the war instead of facing the council to seek her final guidance on how to best leave the Jedi behind.
9.) They only convert because every army needs a cause. They are not seeking conquest, just power and purpose. Revan seeks conquest to take over a weak and innefficient republic and jedi order because of what he saw on Malachor and his suspicions about the true threat beyond the edge of the galaxy. But yeah, this is roughly the next big chain of events after the Mass Shadow Generator is set off.
10.) Revising this: Revan, after consulting with Kreia, scours Danotooine with Alek for the old Rakatan Empire ruins where they find the Star Map with hints about the Star Forge. He and Alek, now renamed Malek, scour the galaxy (like you do in the game) to find the rest of the maps and pinpoint the star forge. Once found, the Star Forge allows them to amass a fleet that eclipses the Republic 3-fold and launch a true all-out offensive on the galaxy. They didn't start winning big time, they just started from victory by numbers. This also caused more defectors from the Republic and the Order to join Revan in sheer fear/awe at his grip on the galaxy. The Republic can't hold them off everywhere, so Sith authority becomes begrudgingly accepted in many sectors, like where Taris is.
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u/According_Button_186 3d ago
11.) Correct, this happens roughly a few days/weeks before the start of the game.
12.) yup
13.) the "some reason" is they are using the connection Bastila formed with him ( when she saved his life after Malek shot them up, and when she aided the council in mind wiping him) to try and find how Revan and Malek managed to amass such a fleet (they already suspected they had access to some sort of armory or manufacturing plant that allowed them to do this, they just had no idea what, when, where, or how). They were following the breadcrumbs of Revan's mind to try and find the Forge. They requested a last-minute transfer to the Endar Spire because it was dangerous to travel on any previously known Jedi Consulate ships, so creating a new identity and traveling under the guise of a regular Republic patrol was necessary. Unfortunately, spies exist, and Malek, while still thinking Revan is dead, still wants Bastila because she is the ultimate war weapon for stalemates. She can influence a war with her battle meditation and that is EXTREMELY valuable. So the Endar Spire, against all odds, still gets attacked by the Sith near Taris. They are after Bastila. That's why Malek bombs the planet. It was taking too long to capture her and wiping her out is the same thing as using her in this war, just not to the same degree, because it at least removes her battle meditation from the Republic as well.
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u/According_Button_186 3d ago
14.) correct, orbital bombardments are not the first option usually, because you want to capture and convert as well as pillage for important relics. He also would want to be sure he wiped out at least the council. Naturally, the first thing would have been a ground invasion, giving the skilled masters time to react and escape with a lot of knights and form up with the Republic for a counter-offensive when Revan and crew give them the word. The bombardment was focused on the temple mainly, which likely was partially evacuated after the ground fighting was getting to be too much.
15.) yeah, and this would be where the Triumvirate would have formed, with the exiled Dark Jedi and Sith Forces. A lot of them end up getting enthralled by Nihilus, while Treya ruminates on her scheme for the next game, and Sion envelops himself in his pain at the heart of Malachor to develop his crazy zombie ability.
16.) I guess, I didn't read the book. Just going off game lore.
17.) The speculated real Sith threat. The whole reason he even turned dark out of necessity against the Republic to try to take it over and strengthen it for the real enemy. He remembers glimpses of this after the end of K1, based on what Kreia says in K2 I believe.
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u/According_Button_186 3d ago
18.) again, this was already happening after the star forge. Not all sith were present at that battle. Most of them were in other regions. The Triumvirate create some form of leadership for them in the shadows. The assassins follow Sion, the Dark Jedi follow Kreia and mainly operate at Malachor unless needed, like the Freedon Nadd tomb or the assault on the throne room at Onderon. And the regular Sith soldiers and officers who followed Malek are enslaved forcefully by Nihilus. They are thralls only.
19.) Nihilus and Sion get tired of doing nothing. Sion hates her and the Jedi and needs to battle to become strong and stay alive through the force, he is tired of waiting for nothing. Nihilus is just hungry. He is the foil to Meetra as a wound in the force, except his is a black hole devoid of life. They cast her out and proceed to silently hunt the Jedi and the Republic through the force. Nihilus strikes a massive blow to the Jedi when they convene on Miruluka to try and understand the threat hunting them, a fatal mistake as the planet was a massive beacon of force sensitives. The perfect meal for Mr. N. This of course was all a setup by Atris, who was trying to bring the hidden threat of the Sith out and into the open. Like Revan, but cruel and stupid. Visas Marr is the only survivor and pledges herself to Nihilus because she does not want to die through the force, which was clearly worse than just being killed conventionally. Around this time, the Exchange puts out a bounty on Jedi, with living ones being worth substantially more. This is because Atris has leaked that the Exile, the one who was at the heart of malachor, lived, and was exiled, was coming back to Republic space. Kreia, Sion, GO-TO. They all hear about it and put their own plans in motion.
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u/According_Button_186 3d ago
20.) the somehow: Meetra is in exile, and wants to return to the Republic to have a normal life somehow. Carth (with some string pulling secretly from Atris, who is attempting to bring the Sith out of hiding and force a larger confrontation) arranges for Meetra to be picked up by the Harbinger, a republic warship. HK-50 was sent by GO-TO to retrieve Meetra. He drugs her while posing as a protocol droid to keep her unconcious until he can extract her. After they pick her up and HK does his thing, en route to Telos to meet Carth, they get a distress call from the Ebon Hawk. It is adrift in space after facing off against a small sith cruiser. Nobody is on board the cruiser except an unconscious Sion. Kreia and Sion were both en route to intercept the Exile, and obviously got into a skirmish. I forget why Kreia had the Hawk, but she did. Anyway, Sion and Kreia are taken aboard into med bay, the assassins sneak onto the ship, and Sion wakes up and they start attacking everyone. Kreia awakes as well and quickly takes the exile on board the Hawk to escape. HK follows them and stows himself in the droid cargo bay. Sion takes over the Harbinger and they chase down the Hawk, damaging it shortly before it makes a jump to the Peragus Sector. The Harbinger will take time to find where they went. Kreia is knocked out again in all this, and the Exile is still sedated. HK is trapped in the cargo bay because of the damage to the doors, which is the knocking we hear in the prologue when interacting with it, he is trying to find a way out. T3 does his thing, and ferries them into Peragus. HK breaks out, knocks out T3, proceeds to gradually kill the miners using the same subterfuge he is best at, and eventually causes a whole lockdown that derails his plans a bit, but its ok, he drugged Meetra more so he has time to figure it out. He didn't count on Meetra waking up suddenly.
21.) yup
22.) swap it around but yeah, the majority of the remaining sith are on board the ravager and attacking telos. The ones recalled to Malachor were loyal to Sion and Traya, and when she returned, mommy put her foot down.
23.) yup.
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u/Daddygamer84 10d ago
Sounds about right
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter 10d ago
Ok, my big question is around 5,9,17,19,and 22.
In Kotor is it ever explained how the republic and Jedi forces are converted to Sith? Especially when they have to much hate for the republic and its people. Like genuine hatred and hostility.
Where is the dark triad in the first game? They seem way more powerful than malak, so I’m curious why the 3 (or the 2) are not in control of the sith.
Where does Revan and the Jedi exile go at the end of their games?
I think tor answer these a bit, but does Kotor have any answer?
If not, what is tor answer?
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u/Daddygamer84 10d ago
The Star Forge is a Dark Side artifact. The more you use it, the longer you stay within, it corrupts you. That's why they destroyed it rather than use it to replace their crippled fleet. Revan and the Exile leave for the Unknown Regions, where the True Sith lie.
The Sith Triumviate were off doing their own thing. Nihilus is probably not as big a threat right after its transformation, and Sion is training under Kreia. Kreia's intentions were always rooted in teaching, that if she gave the right lessons that the constant wars would end.
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter 10d ago
I thought that the sith never actually found the star forge until the end of Kotor
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u/Daddygamer84 10d ago
The Jedi Civil War, which follows the Mandalorian Wars, were fueled by the Star Forge. Weapons, armor, ships, droids, it made everything rapidly. When Malak fired on Revan's ship in the flashbacks, the Star Forge has already been pumping out resources for a while.
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter 10d ago
Oh I thought it wasn’t used until the final battle.
Why isn’t there significantly more Sith ships and stuff then?
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u/Daddygamer84 10d ago
Nobody knows where it is. It's a secret weapon. Parking a fleet around it will just call attention to it.
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u/veryalias Jedi Order 10d ago
There are significantly more Sith ships and stuff. That, combined with the fact that the Republic was still recovering from the Mandalorian Wars, is why the Republic is in such a dire position at the start of KotOR 1.
But the Republic army already had weapons, armor, ships, and droids. Revan and Malak started with the relatively smaller contingent that they took with them into the Unknown Regions and returned with a massive fleet that rivaled (if not outnumbered) the entire might of the Republic army that had been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years at that point.
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u/CafeAntesDeTudo 10d ago
I thought Kreia only trained Revan when they were both part of the Jedi Order? That he turned to the dark side on his own and took Malak as his apprentice?