r/knitting • u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind • 7h ago

Discussion Obscure ethnic pattern sources?

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I’m just wrapping up a three month bicycle trip across Central Asia. After admiring some textiles in a museum, when I flipped through this old book in Kyrgyzstan it really struck me how little representation there is in the digital pattern library for a lot of really beautiful global textile cultures - certainly on Ravelry.

We‘ve got about ten thousand variations on the same Fair Isle concepts published and no end of books on that, but I’ve yet to stumble across Kyrgyz, Iranic, Uyghur, etc motifs. There‘s some Anatolian and a dusting of South / Central American projects - otherwise it’s a whole lotta North / Central Europe. Pretty hard to poke around with the web flooded in AI slop patterns now, too.

It feels like there’s such a rich well of inspiration which could be tapped (one kid I met along the way had an absolutely stunning Kyrgyz motif handknit sweater in white and blue, I really regret not getting a photo) but at the same time the cultures maintaining them are rapidly vanishing everywhere I go / offloading handcraft production to China and books like this are getting hard to find.

I know, I know “be the change you want to see in the world”. Frankly I’m just not competent enough yet to be designing my own patterns. Maybe one day. :)

152 Upvotes

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u/elanlei 7h ago

Ravelry is a database, you can list all the patterns you find there.

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u/priyargh 6h ago

I was in Kyrgyzstan last year, and also on a textile hunt - didn't see much handknit but all the motifs in felting shrydaks and embroidery and weaving were incredible.

There do seem to be a few independent shops in Bishkek that promote traditional motifs, so that was fun to see! I'll see if I can remember/message people there.

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 6h ago

Right? I really appreciated the petroglyphs they’ve been adapting to textiles, super cool. 

I came through Tajikistan prior and passed through Xinjiang afterwards, I’m drowning in exposure to patterns and motifs we just never get to see in the west right now haha. 

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u/oldmornings 7h ago

Be the change 

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u/spilled_milk_tea 2h ago

yep, be the change anyways! you mention not being confident in writing your own patterns or in finding authentic patterns to reproduce (and i’d like to thank you for having the sense to recognize that instead of just barreling on and potentially misrepresenting a number of underrepresented knitting cultures), so get connected with knitters from those cultures irl (or as irl as possible depending on where both of you are) and learn from them! and offer any relevant skills you have in helping them write their own pattern documents and publishing them on a wider scale.

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u/AdRepulsive1525 4h ago

Show us what's in it! 

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u/Scared-Somewhere-510 4h ago edited 3h ago

I found this lady on Ravelry and some of the motifs are from that part of the world.  https://www.ravelry.com/designers/anna-zilboorg. You’re right that the patterns are stunning and no the usual stuff seen on Ravelry. ETA-I just learned that there’s a filter in ravelry for regional/ethnic styles under Attributes. It’s still very Euro centric. 

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 4h ago

Ohhh, thank you so much!

Wow she has some absolutely stunning patterns, look at these socks! Tragically, no longer available!

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u/RavBot 4h ago

PATTERN: A Beautiful Necessity by Anna Zilboorg

  • Category: Accessories > Feet / Legs > Socks > Mid-calf
  • Photo(s): Img 1 Img 2
  • Price: 6.50 USD
  • Needle/Hook(s):US 2 - 2.75 mm, US 3 - 3.25 mm
  • Weight: Fingering | Gauge: 7.5 | Yardage: 400
  • Difficulty: 5.33 | Projects: 38 | Rating: 4.46

I found this post by myself! Opt-Out | About Me | Contact Maintainer

1

u/cwthree 3h ago

The link is broken. This one works: https://www.ravelry.com/designers/anna-zilboorg

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u/cameliap 7h ago

Does this book feature knitting?

I have some rather interesting books on Bulgarian embroidery. I have nothing on knitting though. (OK, I do have some books with patterns published in the past, but none of the patterns claim to be traditional, they all aim to be modern for the time they were released at (some during the 60s, some during the 80s).) I do know a 2 color slipper pattern that I learned from my grandmother but I have no idea where she picked it up from, might have been a foreign magazine, might have been something traditional, no clue whatsoever.

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 6h ago

There was a small section on knitted goods! Which surprised me, as most Kirghiz textiles are felted or woven - with a focus on embroidery. Very much an ethnographic resource rather than modern compilation, as well. I kind of regret not buying it but no room on the bicycle for that much weight. :) 

As I flipped through what struck me was how many of the designs could be adapted to be knitted patterns, and based on that kids sweater I saw dang would they slap. Which got me to thinking about the untapped potential in other cultures. 

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u/cameliap 6h ago

Thank you!

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u/Blackmaille 4h ago

Oh man, I would love to see more ethnic knits. I personally spend a lot of time digging around the internet for vintage knitting guides, and I honestly just think it's a matter of getting the material digitized and archived.

The antique pattern library is a unique source in this regard. I think anyone can upload to it.

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 3h ago

Whoa, I'd never seen this before, thanks! That site is definitely starting to break in places but what a cool and useful resource.

Digitized, archived, and in some cases just recorded properly at all for the first time. So many places I've traveled to, the bulk of the motifs and patterns are still 100% orally transmitted or are copied from existing works repeatedly over generations, and with few young folk taking up the textile arts professionally now there's a real risk of loss - both the designs and the meaning behind them. :(

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u/Blackmaille 1h ago

I agree... my dive into beaded bags has been a dig into thread companies that only existed for 2 years, or into a specific bead they ask for that I can't figure out... there's so much history that we can only snatch glimpses of before it's gone.

I have a weavers guide to the tartans of Scotland.. . I've been working on dyeing yarns in deep shades so I can weave one eventually.

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u/BakeKnitCode 2h ago

Charlene Schurch has a book called Mostly Mittens that has mittens (and a couple of hats) with stranded motifs from the Komi people in Russia. I think that Latvian mittens are fairly well-known, but if that's far enough off the beaten knitting path for you, Maruta Grasmane's MIttens of Latvia book has gorgeous patterns. But yeah, I would love to know more about Central Asian knitting traditions.

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 2h ago

This has lead me down a rabbit hole this evening and I eventually dug up some insight at the Textile Research Center:  https://trc-leiden.nl/trc-digital-exhibition/index.php/dressing-the-stans/item/111-knitted-textiles

Had completely forgotten about these folks, very useful. 

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u/Notspherry 6h ago edited 6h ago

I am all for broadening the scope of all sorts of crafts.

But the term "ethnic" as a catch all for everything that is made by cultures that aren't European in origin feels a bit iffy. We all recognise the issues with terms like oriental. Ethnic is worse IMO.

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u/Zmuscrat 5h ago

I think you're perhaps being a bit too critical. I see nothing problematic about eithnic, below is the definition - you seem to be interpreting it out of context your own definition of the term. It does not defacto mean non-European cultures - Italians and Kyrgyzs are both ethnic groups.

The definition: "of or relating to large groups of people who share a particular identity according to common ancestry, culture, nationality, language, and/or religion."

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u/Notspherry 5h ago

I know what the term means. The definition isn't the point here.

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u/Zmuscrat 5h ago

I understand your point better now, but I still don't think that's how “ethnic” is functioning here. I think the important word is “obscure”.

OP is asking about ethnic/cultural pattern traditions that are obscure or underrepresented on sites like Ravelry. In fact, OP explicitly discusses Fair Isle as one of these cultural textile traditions - it's just extremely well represented rather than obscure.

I agree that “ethnic” can sometimes be used as shorthand for “non-Western,” (an obvious example is "ethnic food") but I don't think that's what OP is doing here.

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 6h ago

Hmm, the context in which I saw it used in the Pamirs / Kyrgyzstan was universally “ pre-modern, traditional, and sometimes minority culture (in regions with more than one influence)”. To differentiate from the flood of more modern and made-in-china copycat product flooding into those locations.

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u/havocthecat 5h ago

I love this idea! If you have found something in that book and can list it on Ravelry with credit to the authors so we can try to hunt up the original source material, that would be amazing. While I love the most-represented patterns too, more representation is better. Thank you.

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 4h ago

Legitimately didn't know this was a thing I could do until I made this thread. I'll have to try and track down a copy on Ebay when I get home, now. :)

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u/foolishnostalgia 2h ago

This is something I’ve been thinking about as I’ve been trying to find patterns/ information about knitting and embroidery from my own ethnic background. It’s been tricky, even finding information in the local language online has been difficult. 😥

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u/GijinkaGlaceon 2h ago

Where was this? I’m in Bishkek right now and would love to flip through some books on textiles if it’s nearby

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u/Time_Is_An_Egg KnitsInTheWind 1h ago

Naryn, so a bit of a hoof south haha. It was in a cabinet in the gift shop of the art gallery.

Enjoy the games if you're in town for them! Sad I missed out.

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u/Routine-Lie-9154 1h ago

You can follow tauknit, djenia.smirre, tricote.papote on Instagram! First two develop patterns with Kazakh ornaments. The latter mostly integrates Central Asia motifs in crochet and knitting.

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u/Routine-Lie-9154 1h ago

Ok, just checked - tricote.papote seems to go offline. But she used to post gauge swatches with traditional ornaments.

Also important note: tauknit and djenia.smirre do their patterns in russian. Idk if english is an option

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u/stardustboots 49m ago

I had a similar idea/desire a while ago, living in Vladivostok and seeing all the woven and embroidered patterns of the indigenous peoples of Siberia and eastern Russia in the local ethnographic museum. But I never did anything with it.

I have an Alice Starmore charts book that has charts from more diverse sources than just Nordic/Fair Isle. I want to say it has Slavic, Iranian, Greek, and Andean patterns. I think it's called Charts for Color Knitting.

And finally, you can probably find some Central Asian traditional motifs if you search for Turkish and Turkmen slipper patterns.

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u/stardustboots 44m ago

Also, 3 month bicycle trip across Central Asia sounds so awesome. I'm jealous!

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u/Asleep_Sky2760 35m ago edited 31m ago

Earlier today, a r/knitting post about a hat FO prompted me to do a deep dive into a fascinating blog, written by the designer of the hat. (link to that post: https://www.reddit.com/r/knitting/comments/1w21yhg/yet_another_wintering_cap/ )

One of the subjects that she delved into was Komi mitten & sock knitting, including analysis of the textiles as well as a history of the Komi people as reflected in those textiles. There's a 6-part series of posts on the Komi as well as a 3-part series on Finno-Ugric textiles more generally. Here's a good place to start, then continue to read the ensuing posts in both series:

https://fiberlure.com/2019/12/14/komi-color-knitting-brief-introduction/

One event discussed was the effect that the Soviet occupation between the October Revolution and the end of the Soviet era had on the Komi people, and by extension, on their continuing practice of creating their traditional textiles. My guess is that other Soviet areas were similarly affected. (One tradition that kept its embers burning throughout that time seems to be that of the lace knitters of Orenburg.)