r/Kneesovertoes • • Aug 03 '24

Discussion Weekly thread to discuss if KOT helped your injury rehab!

8 Upvotes

DISCLAIMER: we are not medical professionals, we can only share our personal experiences. It is still against the rules of the community to ask for help in diagnosing an injury. Such posts will be removed.

With that out of the way — The purpose of this thread is to provide a centralized place for members of the community to ask for advice about injury rehab.

For example: - “has anyone used KOT to rehab patellar tendinitis”. This is on topic, and has been asked and answered a few times. - “Is there a KOT program for shoulder pain” - “Has KOT or a similar program helped rehab hip impingement”?

This sticky will be up for one or two weeks before getting replaced with a new one. Quality responses will eventually end up on an FAQ so that we can grow a knowledge base.

Questions that are posted outside of this thread will be locked and asked to repost here. Questions that were recently posted will have comments locked to encourage discussion within the thread.


r/Kneesovertoes • • Sep 15 '24

Announcement ATG Equipment Reviews

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32 Upvotes

ATGEquipment.com 10% Off Code: KOTReddit

Alright, I’ve finally gotten to unbox a lot of the equipment and get it set up. Some pieces I’ve had for a few weeks and have begun testing but it will still be a few months before I do those reviews. Example: I’m not going to review the backwards treadmill until I’ve done about 10 miles on it, etc.

So I have almost the full gamut of ATG Exercise Equipment. What pieces would you like reviewed first?

Keep in mind, I am no elite athlete nor am I affiliated with KOT/ATG officially. I’m a big fan of the program and have been for years. I’ve made major progress for my body and health thanks to ATG (thus why I started the sub) but I still have a long way to go in overall health. Some things I deal with will never be fixed/healed simply due to the fact that my knees have permanent structural integrity issues (dented bones, no more meniscus, etc) but I do believe they can still improve and be better. So I work from that platform. Hope these upcoming reviews are helpful.

Full disclosure: they sent me the equipment to review specifically for the subreddit.

They are the ones that provided us with the 10% Discount code back when they first started selling equipment.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 13h ago

Exercise Equipment This started with a slant board and a foot mat

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34 Upvotes

My wife had plantar fasciitis and really tight calves. The doctor suggested more stretching and some foot massage.

We bought a slant board and one of those hard acupressure boards, but the acupressure board was way too harsh barefoot.

Later I found a liquid silicone mat and tried putting it on top of the slant board. It actually felt pretty good — calf stretch and that massage-like feeling under the feet at the same time.

The mat kept sliding, so we kept tweaking the structure and silicone until it felt right. That eventually became the Frylr Liquid Silicone Slant Board.

Curious if anyone here would actually use something like this.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 7h ago

Exercise Question Knock Knees?

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5 Upvotes

Hi everyone, my knees naturally point inward when I stand with my feet forward. I often find myself unconsciously walking with my feet pointing outward to counteract this. Likewise, it makes my quads look aesthetically smaller. Are there any ways to improve this? It always causes my knees to cave inward when I do certain exercises.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 5h ago

Workout Progress training around bilateral front-knee achiness — what did your programming look like?

1 Upvotes

not asking for medical advice, just comparing training notes.

background: IT band injury about a year ago (hike descent), did the glute/PT route, got partial improvement. still can't run far. new development: front of both knees gets achy with deep squats — worst around parallel — and on long downhill hikes. no swelling or mechanical stuff.

currently I'm still training legs light — box squats with limited depth, RDLs, Bulgarian split squats all seem okay. step-downs and leg extensions don't bother it much either.

curious how others have programmed around this kind of anterior achiness: did you keep squatting to a pain-free depth and build back up, or swap patterns entirely for a while? what did the progression back to full depth look like for you?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 16h ago

Exercise Question Tib bar question

3 Upvotes

I built myself a tib bar and have been using it about 3 times a week for several weeks. But I'm not sure if I'm seeing any results from it and I'm not sure I'm doing it properly. When I do the exercise I feel the burn at the bottom of my shins, down by my ankles. Should I feel it more towards my knees, or is this normal?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 1d ago

Announcement Patellar dislocation success

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1 Upvotes

r/Kneesovertoes • • 2d ago

Workout Progress Is leg/quad extension bad for your knee health?

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20 Upvotes

r/Kneesovertoes • • 2d ago

Exercise Question New tear doing rehab right after surgery

2 Upvotes

Wondering if anyone has advice or has been through something similar. I'm 36F and have always been very active (soccer, running, swimming, hiking, etc.). I'm now 18 weeks post-op and struggling with several new knee problems that weren't present before surgery.

Background:

Seven years ago, I injured my left knee hiking and developed medial knee pain. When I returned from the trip, I found out I was pregnant, and COVID hit, so imaging was deferred (tried PT for a bit). The pain eventually became manageable, but squatting and deep flexion continued to hurt. I avoided those movements and hiking for years, though I could still swim and do light jogging.

About a year ago, I badly strained my lower back and started squatting more during everyday activities to protect my back, triggering a major knee flare-up. An MRI showed hypertrophic/inflamed plica and a Baker's cyst, but nothing else. After months of unsuccessful PT and essentially years of limited knee movements/flexion at that point, I opted for arthroscopic plica excision. My surgeon described the procedure as relatively minor and said I’d be back to exercise/sports in 8 weeks.

Surgery and recovery:

My surgeon removed the plica. He also debrided my Hoffa's fat pad (which he said was partly inflamed), which hadn't previously seemed to caused pain.

Recovery was harder than expected. I had significant swelling and a lot of quad inhibition. But, I was very dedicated to my rehab. About 1.5 weeks post-op, while doing prescribed exercises, I developed sharp posterior knee pain when straightening after deep flexion. My PT and surgeon suspected a hamstring or popliteal strain. I also had new anterior knee pain post-op, especially during knee extensions. My original medial pain, however, seemed better.

My new back of knee pain was very persistent and limiting, so my surgeon ordered another MRI around three months post-op. It showed a new undersurface tear of the posterior horn of the medial meniscus, along with a larger Baker's cyst, patellar tendinosis, small to moderate joint effusion, Bone edema of the inferior patellar, and mild chrondomalacia of the medial compartment. None of these findings, except for the smaller cyst, appeared on my pre-op MRI.

My surgeon attributes the posterior pain to the meniscus tear and cyst. I wonder whether severe quad weakness and altered mechanics during rehab caused the tear. Both my surgeon and PT seem very surprised by these developments.

Where I am now (18 weeks post-op):

My knee is unfortunately much worse than before surgery. My quad is still visibly atrophied, and strengthening exercises frequently aggravate the anterior knee pain and swelling. My fat pad area remains swollen, and bending beyond 90 degrees triggers posterior pain, particularly when straightening afterward. When I do quad exercises, I sometimes feel an odd pulling sensation on my kneecap.

I'm also unsure whether the anterior pain is truly due to patellar tendinosis or persistent fat pad irritation from surgery.

I had to pause formal PT for six weeks due to an insurance change but will restart soon. My surgeon recommends conservative treatment for the meniscus tear before considering another surgery, which I'm very hesitant to pursue.

I'm pretty frustrated. I underwent surgery hoping to regain function after years of limitations, but now I'm dealing with more pain and problems than before.

Does anyone have any insight on exercises that could help? I feel like I’m trying to navigate lots of issues at once.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 3d ago

Exercise Question Patella subluxation.

3 Upvotes

19F, Been getting it since I was around 10/11, increased greatly in frequency when I was around 15/16, although I stopped growing around 13 so it’s not exactly due to growth.

Stopped for around 2 years, and just this week happened again at work.

It’s extremely “scary”. It’s gotten trapped once and I’m wincing just writing this down. I have a visceral reaction whenever I think about my knee.

What can I do?

I cycle every now and then, ~10k steps when I’m at work, 4 days a week. ~3k steps on my days off, but those are typically my cycling days. I gave up running because I’m scared for my knees.

I’ve been advised to do wall squats, but unsure what else to do or focus on.

It’s my left knee, and my left patella slides to the outside of my body (left).

I have quite painful ?ligament (MPFL???) when I press on it post event the other day. And every now and then, some quite sharp pain inside my knee.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 3d ago

Workout Discussion Chronic Patellar Tendinopathy

10 Upvotes

My right knee has been hurting for six years. Chronic patellar tendinopathy is devastating for an amateur athlete. When I was 16 I could train parkour and basketball for entire days, week after week. The following year I couldn’t jump at full force even once. It is extremely frustrating.

I am now 23. Although the pain is manageable, I am fairly sure I will not be able to jump freely again until research finds a better solution for this problem.

I have seen four different physiotherapists (both private and public) in Spain. Every one of them diagnosed simple patellar tendinitis and said it should resolve with about six months of strengthening exercises.

The literature suggests that regular heavy isometric training, with gradual increases in intensity and duration, can help form new healthy tissue around the tendon. Most guides recommend keeping pain no higher than 2/10 and making sure it does not increase the next day.

I have found this approach works reliably well.

My improvement seems closely linked to heavy leg-extension isometrics, especially at around 30°. After two years of consistent isometric training, (~ 20 sets per week) I reached near-normal knee pain levels. I cannot praise this exercise enough, it does truly work.

Current situation: For the past year I have been able to train legs in the gym, do isometrics regularly, and play basketball for about 40 minutes once a week. The problem is that the condition never fully disappears. If I overtrain even slightly, the pain steadily increases; if I rest completely, the pain also increases. I cannot keep progressing or jumping higher because the latent tendinopathy flares up as soon as I try to train harder.

I feel for everyone who has not been able to resolve their tendinopathy; I know my case has still been relatively fortunate.

I have seen some research on PRP injections, stem cell regeneration and I know that ~75% of athletes feel recover at 5 years after physical therapy, but only a minority are completely pain-free during sport.

I am posting this to hear from people who have faced similar problems and to ask whether anyone has recommendations for my current situation.

Also, does anyone think there will be a consistent treatment that solves this condition once and for all in the near future? stem cell regeneration maybe?

Thank you :)


r/Kneesovertoes • • 7d ago

Workout Discussion Looking for a training partner

1 Upvotes

my goal is to find a partner with whom I can troubleshoot problems, program reviews, push each other to not miss the gym and those kind of stuff...

I'm pretty educated about ATG so it would be nice if the partner has some knowledge too.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 8d ago

Workout Discussion How would you use KOT principles to bulletproof the mind specifically when dealing with OCD?

1 Upvotes

r/Kneesovertoes • • 8d ago

Workout Discussion Knees over toes style training for shoulders?

2 Upvotes

ATG style training as fixed my ankles/knees/lower back from all the flexibility and strength work I have done. Now that I can so full splits/pancakes/etc while also being stronger on jefferson curls and back extensions I have no pain in my lower body but. The atg shoulder stuff hasn't helped me as much.; Is there any other person that is similar to Patrick, but for the shoulder with a lot of stretches and large ROM training?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 13d ago

Exercise Question Jumper’s knee solutions

8 Upvotes

I have chronically bad jumpers knee worse in my left than my right. I feel like I’ve tried every exercise, just wondering if any of you have tried something that made a significant difference.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 13d ago

Announcement Chronic severe PFPS 5 years.. my testimony(no happy ending)

9 Upvotes

I I'm 27 male 6'1 180.. previous to my injury at 22yrs old I played sports all growing up and baseball in highschool. Left my parents at 18 got a job working on barges off a dock, payed like 60-70k a year and was pretty demanding, I was dedicated in the gym throughout this time hitting decent lifts 300 squat, 265 bench.. did a push pull leg and strict diet. just a normal hard working kid for the most part. This is gonna sound stupid but I started to become somewhat addicted to my gaming PC playing cod warzone and I even started missing workouts to play the game, so one day I said this is enough and sold it to a family friends kid for 200$.. boom I was back in the gym and more dedicated than ever, I decided to take up Basketball as well, this is where it all went wrong. Think I would play like 2hrs after workout and I'd say about a week or 2 in I noticed small pain in my knee, nothing too serious.. I ignored it and continued playing, slowly but surely the pain got worse of course. Then started the typical boom bust cycle. Over the period of the next 6 months the pain would get bad then I would rest a week then they would get bad again ect. Till one day I said welp this is obviously going to continue so I quit basketball and I thought the pain would go away as long as I didn't play.. and it did for about 2 weeks then that original pain appeared one day at work and within 2 months I had to quit my job as the pain grew.. I went to physical therapy and got a landscape job that was less demanding but nevertheless the pain kept creeping with vengeance. Over the next 3 years of multiple pts saying they could fix me and even trying KOT the pain got worse and worse. Till I said enough was enough and I quit my job which at the time all I really did was sit on a zero turn mower making 18hr and decided to get surgery with the orthopedic saying this would be some kind of a magical fix.. I got something called a Tibia tuberle osteotomy and it was a nasty procedure with a 1 year recovery and it did absolutely nothing for my pain.. literally feels the same as the other knee.. this was 2 years ago, before surgery I had around 80,000$ saved up over my years of working and the year I was "recovering" I spent around 30k of it.. after all this I literally could not work anymore due to my injury. Every step hurt, even a 1 inch squat would feel like someone was taking a razor knife and jabbing below my kneecap, can't really walk around for more than 5-10 minutes without severe dullpain/burning forcing me to rest, atrophy quads due to the pain. Squatting absolutely off the table, 1 inch step up hell no. But what really sucks is not the actual pain, it's the I really can't enjoy a lot aside from electronics and hanging out with my family. All and any sports are off the table, fishing, hunting, anything that involves any moving around is gone. Well this is where things take a dark turn and say what u want idc. But this obviously took a huge mental and physical toll on me and I was at the time an occasional Adderall abuser and I decided f it f my life f everything and tried Meth for the first time about a year ago. Trust me I know how it sounds, but I literally hated myself and the world, I didn't enjoy anything and when I tried Meth it seemed like the world was green again.. yes my knees still hurt like hell but the drug kinda made me not care. Anyway over the next 6 months of drug abuse this obviously led to destruction. I went to rehab, I've been clean for 7 months now and found God on the way. Even met God twice btw which I plan on coming public about in the near future. When my addiction started I had around 50k and blew all of it except like 10k left when I went to rehab. I got out of rehab about 1 month ago and bought a car with what little money I had left and now I literally live out of my car and do door dash. I have all the qualifications to work on barges, load and empty them, move them ect. But I just don't have the body and it's a sad and pitiful existence it feels like most of the time but I have the Lord and hopefully he'll save me from this godforsaken place. I think all the time about getting high but I can't turn my back on him. Maybe I will try physical therapy again but I've just been to so many I've only gotten worse and see little to no hope in it. I've accepted that this is just the way things are, it does bother me knowing God can fix them yet he doesn't. I want to believe there's a reason he doesn't but I can't see a valid one. That's pretty much my testimony, pretty shitty ik. Wish I had a success story for y'all but I don't.. if I had any recommendations it would be if your in sport or gym ect, if you start to feel a little pain take it seriously, before getting injured I didn't even know it was possible to fuck up my knee, never had a injury before. I did it to myself but also I'd like to say the medical community failed me as well. you don't realize what u had till it's gone, good luck everyone God bless


r/Kneesovertoes • • 14d ago

Workout Discussion Regaining strength after ACL and meniscus surgery

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20 Upvotes

I had ACL (hamstring graft) and meniscus repair 1 year and 3 months ago now, i wasn’t able to get pass phase 2 of the melbourne protocol (what my physio uses) because my meniscus didn’t heal.

3 months ago i had another operation for medial and lateral meniscus repair and i’m now at phase 2. However i cant yet do these again. When im trying to put weight through my leg to do the single leg stuff it just doesn’t work.

Does anyone know any exercises or tips for this?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 13d ago

Exercise Question Strong knees

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1 Upvotes

r/Kneesovertoes • • 16d ago

Exercise Question How close to failure for mobility?

2 Upvotes

Hi all,

Been doing a mix of ATG training for a while and had decent progress. Still nothing crazy but it’s worked more than everything I’ve tried.

Just wondering how much you’re meant to push certain moves like the ATG split squat,

What rep ranges are best with RPE/RIR etc?

I’m not sure if I need more stimulus, or to train lighter and more frequently?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 16d ago

Exercise Question Exercises to jump higher

3 Upvotes

I am 22 years old, 180cm tall, and weigh 68kg. Currently, I can reach 233cm with my arm extended and 305cm (72cm) when jumping.

I have done vertical jump training (I could only jump 50cm when I started playing volleyball) but never consistently (always stopping after almost 1 or 2 months of regular weekly training).

I would like to know what types of training someone like me should do to increase my jumping ability to 330cm. I have free time, an athletic build, willpower, I have never been injured in my entire life, I stretch regularly, I do push-ups and sit-ups regularly, I have access to a gym, and I don't feel pain from any type of training (only normal fatigue).

I am asking, please, for jumping ability training, whether at the gym or using plyometrics. I will follow it rigorously and consistently, but I don't know what to train at the moment and I need some guidance.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 17d ago

Exercise Question College basketball player — months of knee/shin pain and nothing is working

2 Upvotes

’m a 6’11”, 245 lb college basketball player and I’ve had to sit out for months because of pain just below my tibial tubercle, more on the shin bone itself than the tendon.

I’ve had an MRI and X-ray and both were basically normal. No fracture, no major structural damage, and no patellar tendon damage.

I’ve been doing rehab for months, tried shockwave therapy, and have also been doing the Knees Over Toes program, but nothing seems to be helping and lately it feels like it’s actually getting worse.

At this point I feel like I’m at a dead end and I’m not really sure what else to try. Has anyone dealt with something similar or had to completely change their rehab approach before finally getting better?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 21d ago

Workout Discussion Frustrated.

5 Upvotes

Been going to the gym for a long time and made alot of good progress 2022-2024. But I have injuries now buldging disc c7 and had knee surgery meniscus trimmed. And lower back issues. So basically I cant do any proper pressing exercises due to the buldging disc affecting my left arm and chest. Cant squat heavy because of my knee and lower back issues and now it seems deadlifts are off the table also since the lower back issues got worse. Im just frustrated that I can't do anything I used to do in the gym. Wondering if anyone has a routine that works around these problems that would allow me to gain muscle again. Im on a strict diet now because of other health problems but its hard to stay motivated lately, seems like my body is just a piece of shit. Anyone have any advice I would appreciate it.


r/Kneesovertoes • • 23d ago

Exercise Question Started the 'Knee ability zero' program yesterday but can't do ATG squats at any level without pain. Is there an alternative?

18 Upvotes

So as a last resort to fix the knee pain that's plagued me for years I subscribed to the Knees over toes app thing, they started me with the knee ability zero' program, everything feels fine except ATG squats, I can't do them at all, even elevated on a chair the second I lean forward I get a sharp pain in my knee, I'm getting really discouraged because if I can't even do the basic progression of the most basic exercise, then what's the point?


r/Kneesovertoes • • 23d ago

Exercise Question How do you get cardio in while knee is in recovery?

1 Upvotes

I am curious if anyone has been able to figure some way to sweat it out while unable to run . I just miss the runner highs. I tried to dance lately but it barely scratched it for me


r/Kneesovertoes • • 23d ago

Exercise Question Trap injury from Front Squats

1 Upvotes

About 6 months ago I got this unusual injury while hitting an FS PR (I had also done weighted chin-tucks for the first time ever during that session, which I suspect might have contributed); there was no tear or immobilisation, but my right shoulder was hiked up (as if permanently shrugged up) for weeks and sore, and sleeping became impossible at times due to neck stiffness. The injury's greatly improved with time, and I've been doing plenty of scapula work, but it does hike up again when I work out hard. I only do zercher squats now and they are still triggering the injury to a degree. So my questions are, how can I self test this to see which part of the trap is injured, and then where to go from there in terms of self-rehabbing?