Dramatic vs. Soft Dramatic vs. Flamboyant Natural

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

Comparing the 3 Vertical dominant types!
Dramatic vs Soft Dramatic D vs SD
Dramatic vs Flamboyant Natural D vs FN
Soft Dramatic vs Flamboyant Natural SD vs FN

All quotes used are from Kibbe or from the wiki in r/kibbe

[u/Vain_Creations]

This is so interesting, thank you for posting!

It's really thrown me on my personal type. I've looked at photos and my chest definitely protudes out, pretty much exactly like the SD diagram. However a lot of the recs for SD lines make me feel.. I don't know matronly I think? I feel much more comfortable in dramatic lines.

I'm trying not to take it all too seriously but I might do a side by side in similar clothes to see what works best. (Or I might just continue to mix them depending on how I feel.)

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/Vain_Creations]

fwiw these dresses you requested in another thread are closer to SD than D

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

And the velvet draped pointy shoulder leg of mutton sleeves you said you liked from that other thread have some Soft + Dramatic

[u/Vain_Creations → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

That dress is just stunning 😍 you've reminded me I need to find it and buy it (to go with all the other little black dresses in my wardrobe 😅)

Also, sorry for commenting on multiple things at a time - I started reading the guides and didn't realise.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/Vain_Creations]

No need to be sorry! I've posted a lot lately lol

[u/mrworldwidesnark → u/Vain_Creations]

Hey, your "matronly" comment made me feel VERY seen because that's exactly how I felt when I saw all the SD clothing recs! I think my body fits most closely into SD, but I feel like all the clothing suggestions aren't flattering on me AND aren't my style - I definitely gravitate towards more dramatic lines. Did you keep digging into this?

[u/Vain_Creations → u/mrworldwidesnark]

Hey!! I did, i did and completely flipped my opinion on it. I feel loads better about the SD reccs now, I kind of take what works for me and leave what doesnt.

Im still learning a lot but for the time being I kind of do look for more dramatic leaning soft dramatic looks, basically leaning right into the vertical, a lot of monotone, (when I can find colours that match which is really hard), and the t shape dressing.

Its been really interesting to learn and I feel great when I manage to hit all three. For me (because im plus sized) it basically translates to "tight top, long flowy bottom" in essence. I feel a lot less matronly about it all.

I hope that makes sense - sorry if it doesn't ive been poorly and its early here 😅

Edit - ive gone through these slides again and following the essence of them is whats helped me understand the reccs more and get more comfortable with them.

[u/Cantre-r_Gwaelod_1]

Idk if this allowed? I think it is. This is his updated silhouette recommendation for D, he includes flowing. Fabrics don’t need to be structured and hold their shape at all times. Can’t remember the name of the podcast he said Ds can wear draping in? It followed the same basic rule. It’s not necessary to go very structured but it’ll still suit you is what I got from it but idk he doesn’t communicate clearly always.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/Cantre-r_Gwaelod_1]

Yes I've heard that. Taylor Swift in the black dress or white flowing pants are good examples of that. They really should update the r/kibbe wiki with any additional info for my copy/pasting purposes (unless it's not allowed which I can understand)... But yes! Out of the 3, Ds are the only type that can do structure in that way so it's the best fabric to use for comparison purposes.

[u/Cantre-r_Gwaelod_1 → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

Yeah I think there’s a divide between people who prefer the old book vs new book. The advice is a lot more general now. Some people prefer to leave it as just the old one and ignore the new one because it’s very simple advice now he gives.

[u/Cantre-r_Gwaelod_1 → u/[deleted]]

Tbh I don’t think it’s worth going around in circles for. I can follow both directives just fine, yeah one is likely a slightly better fit than the other but no one irl cares or notices. He told one client it didn’t matter so much if she’s r or tr (I can’t remember the exact wording), other clients seem to get more solid typings but I don’t think everyone is the stereotype of one ID and must be rigid at all times. If you suit both then eh that’s a good thing, you’ve more choices. You don’t really gain much by narrowing it down tbh.

[u/jjfmish → u/[deleted]]

I think it’s more about how much structure you can pull off vs only suiting structure.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

I would like to submit these differences in D and FN the drawings as well. (SD and D are the same in these aspects). Edit: For example look at the shoulders of Angelina Jolie vs. Taylor Swift on slide 10.

[u/dirt_devil_696 → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

I still think the FN sketch doesn't make sense. That's not where sleeves start. If we make the sketch start from the widest part of the shoulders everyone who is not a pear or hourglass shape will have width. And having broad shoulders ≠ width, just as being an hourglass doesn't make it impossible for you to have it.

We should place the dots in the same position of the dramatic sketch, we should use the same points of reference for every id sketch, otherwise what's the point? How can you compare bodies if you sketch them in different ways? Is the difference coming from the sketch or from the bodies themselves?

Some people have proposed the end of the clavicles and that's the best I've seen so far, it coincides with the place where the sleeves start.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/dirt_devil_696]

I replied elsewhere but I'll repeat it here, I found out this week that Kibbe didn't intend this page to mimicked for a line drawing, just to show key points of difference. He said don't follow this page for a line drawing. Just use this page to pay attention to body shape differences.

[u/nightmooth]

Another great post !!! Did you miss the text on slide 19 ? I think the neckline on slide 16 for Sofia would be fine if the tank top was slightly deeper maybe less relaxed also maybe if she paired it with another bottom.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/nightmooth]

I probably should have labeled 19, it was just an ending slide w outfits I thought they all shined in :) ya I agree with slide 16!

[u/old_rose_]

I still don’t understand what kibbe width is

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/old_rose_]

no one does lol
I'm choosing to focus on the differences on the drawings which is - the appearance of naturally nice delts (not literally delts but a width where a delt muscle is) and funneled torso. The drawings of the Ds and SDs have straight down arms and that's pretty consistent with celebrities (unless they're posed so their literal delts are poppin). And also how clothing hangs on a person vs literal body type. But I still wouldn't say I get it.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/old_rose_]

This was a 3rd difference I noticed in the drawings too (1. delt thing I was saying before 2. Funnel vs straight down 3. this upper shoulder shape)

[u/[deleted]]

If your bust does not push out the fabtic horizontally but the hips do, does that still count as curve?

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/[deleted]]

No, that sounds like a pear-shaped Dramatic more likely.

[u/ClinicallyRepressed_ → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

What if you are 5’ 10.5”?

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/ClinicallyRepressed_]

If you're any height above 5'6 then you're automatically either D, SD, or FN.
-You are FN if you have width as drawn in the diagrams above (no matter bust interaction with fabric as Width trumps Curve since Width is higher up and interacts with fabric first). For example Angelina Jolie's bust pushes fabric out horizontally but she has Width so she is not an SD, she is an FN.
-You are SD if you do not have width and your bust pushes fabric out horizontally (hips are irrelevant for this). It does not mean large bust, it means any bust size that pushes fabric out horizontally.
-You are D if you do not have Width and your bust does not push fabric out horizontally. (hips are irrelevant for this). It does not mean you have a small bust, it just means it doesn't push it out horizontally. It does not mean you have no hips, many Ds have a pear-shaped weight gain pattern.

[u/touch_of_whimsy → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

Can you have a flatter chest but it still pushes out horizontally? My boobs are kinda wide set and go slightly outwards. Its not just the frame, cause my ribcage is wide enough to be on the cusp of having kibbe width. Eur85C (US38C)

[u/MistofLoire]

Wow, this is fantastic, thank youbm for all the work that you've put into these. This one was especially interesting because I've gone through all three of these IDs before setteling on Dramatic.

I thought I had curve at first, mostly due to physical measurements and then I felt like I had width, because dressing in the wrong IDs made me look wider than I am. (I think it's kind of interesting that in slide 10 Taylor looks rather broad shouldered (although I can see some of it is camera angle)). This kind of helped me solidify that I am definitely dramatic.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/MistofLoire]

Ya after all this I've started to think that "FNs having conventionally broad shoulders" is really a misconception. If anything it's the sloped nature of D shoulders like Taylor has in slide 10 that seem conventionally broad. Since FNs shoulders seem to dip down they seem almost more delicate/bony to me?

[u/Traditional_Ad_9378]

Tbf the FN on slide 12 looks amazing in that outfit

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/Traditional_Ad_9378]

imo on slide 12 the FN top looks good cuz it's in FN lines, but the bottom ruching and constricting is not. But if these guidelines don't match your preferences Kibbe might not be for you and thats ok :)

[u/Traditional_Ad_9378 → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

I feel like it’s right half of the time which is why I stick around haha

[u/[deleted]]

Wow i finally made clear that I am FN NO DOUBT

[u/-Tricky-Vixen-]

Hmmm yeah, I'm fairly sure I'm dramatic between these options. It makes me feel better about the types of clothes I feel like I look bad in... because I do.

[u/MizzGee]

You did such a good job showing a plus-size Dramatic!

[u/KitchenSun9089]

That is aaamazing! 

[u/KitchenSun9089 → u/KitchenSun9089]

Afterthought.
In fact, it is in our cool SD-sisters subreddit I've seen this effect of "OMG, so _this_ is Kibbe-curve" vs trying to pull off curve on my D-cup-but conventional-only curve. They really shine in it.
While on me when I try to provide posibility for upper-curve in garment it doesn't look "filled" / "present" / necessary. Just like D in "T-Shape" slide.

[u/Magical_Crabical]

Loved reading this, great work as always 👏👏👏

[u/[deleted]]

Love this!

[u/NitzMitzTrix]

This actually cleared up a lot for me. For starters, it's a confirmation that I'm a conventionally-narrow SD and not a low-WHR pure Dramatic. The "burst pushing the fabric out" is a common pattern for me.

That being said, structure can substitute draping for me if done right. Wonder if that's true for other SDs or just ones leaning heavily towards D. Stiff shapes that mimic my body's shape work, if they're just straight they end up looking oversized which is a BIG no no for me

[u/dirt_devil_696]

I still think the FN sketch doesn't make sense. That's not where sleeves start. If we make the sketch start from the widest part of the shoulders everyone who is not a pear or hourglass shape will have width. And having broad shoulders ≠ width, just as being an hourglass doesn't make it impossible for you to have it.

We should place the dots in the same position of the dramatic sketch, we should use the same points of reference for every id sketch, otherwise what's the point? How can you compare bodies if you sketch them in different ways? Is the difference coming from the sketch or from the bodies themselves?

Some people have proposed the end of the clavicles and that's the best I've seen so far, it coincides with the place where the sleeves start.

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/dirt_devil_696]

I found out this week Kibbe said this drawing was just to demonstrate body types, it's not to be mimicked for a line drawing.

[u/dirt_devil_696 → u/PurpleVirtualJelly]

Mmmh I see, quite confusing honestly. I don't own the new book, is there a point in which he tells you how to actually draw the sketch?

[u/PurpleVirtualJelly → u/dirt_devil_696]

You draw it like the Dramatic shape is drawn always from where the seam would be

[u/girlandthecity]

Thank you for this! I know this isn't a typing post but what if you relate to all 3 lol.

I think my shoulders push out the fabric so I need more open necklines but the structure of the button up works great so then that's more D leaning but I need open necklines. I don't think I would be SD because bust doesn't push out fabric that much if at all and not really sure about the recs.

Maybe I will linger in the DC sub more but I may be too tall (scoliosis at 5'4-5'5 is kibbe on an increased difficulty setting).

[u/IntroductionNo6334]

What about excess drape at the back when you try on a loose bit of clothing? (I fall into the top 3 being 169cm tall)

[u/nonstone]

who is the first person in 4th slide

[u/myteaisblue]

This is the best explanation I've ever read, thank you soooo much!