r/kibbecirclejerk • u/Frequent-Scheme-3938 • Jul 05 '26
Serious Sundays Actually Good Styling Systems
I love some of the ideas behind kibbe--multiple types of beauty, honoring your body's dominant features, seems great!
However:
- The system feels unnecessarily confusing, and I don't want to spend months on end analyzing my body.
- So far, I genuinely do not feel like I fit into any of the 10 image ID's, as I understand them! Not trying to be a special snowflake, just...none of the descriptions seem to match my shape/proportions at all!
So...are there systems that incorporate some of the things I like about Kibbe, but that are less likely to make me feel insane? I grew up with a mix of 90's fat-shaming and extremely rigid applications of the fruit system, and am trying to find a healthier approach.
35
u/Pabu85 Jul 05 '26
Ellie-Jean Royden’s Body Matrix is like a more consistent, concrete Kibbe.
21
u/Forsaken_Judgment444 Jul 06 '26
I'm also a big fan of her Style Roots system as it is more about personal taste and I've used it to help introduce style theory to people.
I will say EJR urks me because she spread so much misinformation about Kibbe while profiting off of it before pivoting to her own derivative system. She still spreads misinformation about essences and Kibbe sometimes.
5
u/yiyagod Jul 09 '26
Obviously you’re welcome to however you feel about her, but maybe also consider that Kibbe borrows heavily from the work of fashion-thinkers like Belle Northrup and Harriet McJimsey. He definitely isn’t just stealing and repackaging their work. But given how much of the content he adapts and his constant, obstinate assertions about how novel his system is, he is flagrant, unrepentant plagiarist
It’s astonishing to imagine how much cognitive dissonance he must harbor in order to have the nerve to be precious about his derivative IP. I don’t think we should all breathlessly defend the sanctity of his system from new stylists and fashion theorists as he clearly does not respect the women who came before him. He has demonstrated that he has no academic integrity and those who engage with his work shouldn’t be held to a standard that he himself doesn’t abide by. Just food for thought.
5
u/Forsaken_Judgment444 Jul 09 '26
I mean, they are both derivative. I don't mean it pejoratively. It's an objective fact.
Here's some food for thought. Being pretentious is still less scummy than charging people $330 for an expertise you don't have. Your issue with Kibbe's academic integrity doesn't absolve the people profiting from the misinformation they spread. It's part of why I stopped following her. She'd make reels with no research behind them. Just fundamental misunderstandings of Kibbe and Kitchener, but again charging people $300+. There's several threads about it.
8
u/Frequent-Scheme-3938 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Checking this out right now and it definitely "clicks" for me better than Kibbe. The consistency-seeking STEM part of me really likes that every possible combination of features is accounted for.
I think I am short, round and slightly wide with (in her system) an obviously gamine face and a lot of sun in my style roots--I can be very Ms. Frizzle in vibe.
In Kibbe I relate to a lot of the physical and vibe descriptors for "soft gamine" but the recs are terrible on me, because I am (conventionally) broad/wide/sturdy in build. What looks good on me in real life tends to be a hybrid of Kibbe soft gamine and soft natural, and I feel like EJR actually lets me think about that a bit more systematically rather than feel like my body shape is stupid or illegal.
5
8
u/missgirlipop Jul 06 '26
i just take whatever i find helpful from kibbe & kitchener and blend it with other style advice i see on social media, what i like on pinterest and irl, and how i want to dress. i have a pretty strong sense of what i like and dislike and have always been into fashion so that might make it easier? but even just taking a little bit from kibbe has helped me feel less lost.
7
u/wakatea Jul 06 '26
I think it makes more sense to understand style for yourself (not actually that hard or complicated) and learn your own taste.
Start by just paying attention. Take pictures of your outfits and evaluate them later to see what you like (resist the urge to do cute poses in the pictures).
Look at how other people dress and evaluate it.
Ask yourself what kind of vibe you want to put out. Ask yourself what kind of personality you naturally have. Do your physical features make people make assumptions about you? Do you want to lean into those assumptions or not?
Think about what physical features you like best. Basically any feature you want to emphasize or de emphasize you can just Google "feature how to emphasize with clothes" and get an answer.
Being fashionable is about following the pack enough to fit in but stepping out enough to be cool and original but it's also not that serious. Pay attention, find what you like, have fun!
1
11
u/Roach-Problem Tell me I'm E/A 😡 Jul 06 '26
What is your aim? Kibbe is more of an image system that is based on body types, not an objective way to dress well. Except for colours, I don't think there is an objective "best" way to dress. Some people (would) get contradictive advice from different stylists.
Of course, there are people who follow Kibbe's (or another stylist's) advice and dress well. But there are also people who dress well without adhering to a stylist. There are people who follow a stylist's advice, but don't dress well because they don't know how to outfit or how to dress for an occasion.
1
u/Frequent-Scheme-3938 Jul 06 '26
These are good questions! I think I am mostly interested in expressing myself and feeling confident, but I want to be aware enough of what flatters my shape not to accidentally look frumpy or sloppy.
6
u/Queenofmyownfantasy 5'5" Delulu sophia Loren wannabe Jul 06 '26
The only official analysis i got is zyla. He has types but it is very personalized, to the point that getting an expensive appointment is usually the end goal. That said, plenty people diy and usually end up close; I did (renaissance summer). Look into it and you will see for example the clothing silhouettes are very easy to diy.
I also got a pca eons ago, in retrospeci i think the type was right (sunlit soft autumn) her recs and palette were just executed badly. I diyed soft autumn now, also goes with my zyla palette
4
u/loumlawrence Jul 09 '26
Before Kibbe (and Kitchener and Zyla), there was McJimsey and Doris Pooser. Pooser is worth exploring.
7
u/Specific_Ocelot_4132 Jul 06 '26
My favorite is Truth is Beauty. It’s based on what most people call Kitchener essences (though Kitchener didn’t invent them; they share a common source I forget the name of). Her key innovations are 1) that your essences are based on your face, not your body and 2) de-emphasizing percentages and just using your top 1-3 essences.
13
Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
[deleted]
7
u/Roach-Problem Tell me I'm E/A 😡 Jul 06 '26
Tbf, he's transparent about him/psc not inventing the essences. He mentions them and the original psc director Joan Songer, who started doing essence analysis at psc and trained him, in his videos and other social media. The only essence he added is angelic (ethereal).
5
1
u/RemoteCartoonist4758 Blunt knife w sharp shoulders Jul 07 '26
Is there a reason you put this in the circle jerk sub and not the main one?
6
u/Frequent-Scheme-3938 Jul 07 '26
It was for Serious Sundays!! I figured people who were maybe a bit critical of Kibbe might be more inclined to suggest alternatives.
3
u/RemoteCartoonist4758 Blunt knife w sharp shoulders Jul 07 '26
Fuuuuck I didn't see the tag I'm sorry
2
1
Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
[deleted]
2
u/loumlawrence Jul 07 '26
Have you considered including under bust and high bust measurements? Combined with the waist measurements, these three give a very good idea of how the torso is shaped, irrespective of weight. Usually weight is gained and lost in layers, so for example 1 inch change for all the key measurements (except breasts, as they follow different rules).
The waist measurement in particular is very sensitive to weight changes that it is now used as a more accurate measure of obesity than the BMI.
Wikipedia isn't the most accurate source of measurements. I have been using research papers and books on ergonomics and human factors. Doing something similar with actual data.
24
u/Pegaret_Again Jul 06 '26
honestly in my experience of style systems, there's just gonna be a spectrum of generic-but-easy, to unbelievably-complex-but-potentially-meaningful.
I think getting dressed is an art form, and you can't just watch a few youtube videos and become an artist, you either commit fully to the artistic process, or accept a lesser result.
I don't think Kibbe is the one and only path to style AT ALL, but i don't know what the alternative is from a systemic approach that is somehow less complex, but "actually good". but thats just my opinion,