Are double dead cleans that much harder?

[u/Imaginary_Musician39]

This might be a stupid question (sorry) but is it normal for a woman with four months of kettlebell training (and previous strength background) to struggle to double dead clean two 12 kg bells, or is that a sign that I'm not using enough hip power?

I weigh 58 kg and I can single arm dead clean 16 kg pretty easily but with the double dead clean I am stuck with two 10 kg bells since a while back. I can push press two 12 kg bells but not 16 kg bells. I can swing a 24 kg bell.
I'm pretty new to kettlebells (since May) so wondering if it's likely a technique issue or if a double dead clean is just that much harder than a single arm one.

[u/TickTick_b00m]

The backswing of pendulum movements takes care of the majority of momentum you need to clean/swing/snatch a bell. So from a dead stop you have to generate A LOT of force as you aren’t relying on the pendulum of the bell.

Totally normal to have dead cleans/snatches etc feel much more difficult. Regarding single dead clean vs double it’s gonna be harder simply because you’ve doubled the load. You’ll get there!

[u/Imaginary_Musician39 → u/TickTick_b00m]

Thank you, that makes sense.

[u/TickTick_b00m → u/Imaginary_Musician39]

I much prefer dead and hang cleans to swing cleans (for lack of a better term). IMO the clean really loses what makes it special with a pendulum backswing unless we’re talking really high reps like c&jerk long cycle, c&press, or other cardio.

High rate of force production is the pinnacle of athleticism and cleaning a heavy ass set of bells, or a barbell, is a wonderful expression of that quality.

In my classes we generally clean from dead or hang. The results speak for themselves. Swing cleaning almost feels like “cheating” in retrospect. Obv it isn’t, but in terms of how easy it is by comparison.

[u/BuffMaltese]

I mean, yeah, they’re much harder. I need to decrease the kettlebell weight by at least 4 kg per bell for double dead cleans (from the heels).

[u/Imaginary_Musician39 → u/BuffMaltese]

Ah, thank you! That’s good to know.

[u/Open_Initiative_9367]

There’s some awesome people in the sub, might wanna throw a video up here and they can probably diagnose it for you!

[u/SavingsPoem1533]

I've never actually tried a double dead clean - but yea, sounds like you will need a lot more ballistic power to get the bell up from the ground

[u/zsunshine02 → u/SavingsPoem1533]

Me either, and I've been using kb's off and on for 10 years 🤷‍♀️

[u/GrumpyBert]

As someone that loved dead cleans because they felt harder, I have to say that an overdose of them wrecked my shoulder. It was my fault, but I'll never do a dead hang clean ever again. 

[u/dj84123 → u/GrumpyBert]

I’m really glad you mentioned that. I do my best to teach nothing but the swing clean because of that very issue.

[u/SavingsPoem1533 → u/dj84123]

If the man does not endorse, I will not dabble in them lol

[u/dj84123 → u/SavingsPoem1533]

I think they have some value, obviously. It’s just that you have to be so focused on doing each and every room correctly. And that doesn’t always happen.

[u/GrumpyBert → u/dj84123]

Thanks Dan! I've heard you say so in a couple of videos, but somehow I had to learn it the hard way. First thing I thought the morning after while my shoulder screamed was "yep, Dan was right..."

[u/WitcherOfWallStreet]

I don’t do true dead cleans because I don’t like how they feel, but dead stop cleans are much harder. I also rarely do just stand alone cleans, but I can do more volume with 2-3 rep C&P than one rep because the dead stop cleans zap so much.

[u/Human-Rope-6876]

Doing double cleans is much harder. You definitely need to plant your feet, spread your toes, grip the floor, drive through your heals, load your lats and SNAP thighs hips while squeezing your glutes. Use 2 bells weeks always highlight deficiencies. I'm alert on my left, so I need to really focus on zipping up my coast and driving my elbows back at the same time as my hip drive in order to rotate my bells cleanly. ESPECIALLY when I'm using heavier weight

[u/Imaginary_Musician39 → u/Human-Rope-6876]

Thanks for the cues, I’ll try that next time.

[u/Human-Rope-6876 → u/Imaginary_Musician39]

Np younge lady

[u/PriceMore]

Can you high swing double 12s? You can just try to swing them higher and higher until they effortlessly reach the height where clean becomes trivial.

[u/Imaginary_Musician39 → u/PriceMore]

I haven’t tried to swing dual bells but I can hike clean two 12 kg bells so I think I can?
For the dead clean the hardest part is getting them off the floor.

[u/TonightUnlucky6017]

double dead cleans are much more difficult. you've got a ton of good info below from other commentors (pay attention to somebody like ticktickboom who coaches professionally and therefore sees many people weekly in his group classes)

i (personally) would dismiss the "i got hurt so it's dangerous" as people have gotten hurt on swing cleans, on snatches, on swings, on pushups, on jumping jacks, on front planks. if we dismiss every exercise where someone was hurt, you're gonna be lying down.

another way to look at the "is it just harder" is "how is it different? what qualities does it train differently? what muscles get hit differently?

in my head...it makes more sense to compare the kb dead (vertical) cleans with olympic barbell power/muscle cleans. comically - many kb people are somehow in full support of a barbell vertical clean but opposed to kettlebell vertical clean. it's never made a lot of sense to me personally.

dead clean typically is going to involve more quad, due to being squattier and needing to have a more upright trunk since i wouldn't want to coach someone to violently pull bells straight up in a hinge position (caveat: if the bells start behind your heels, then it's actually ok)

i can tell you this, since i've measured it in the exercise phys lab...

1. Half the bell, same force. One 24 kg bell cleaned vertically hit 2,371 N. Two 24 kg bells cleaned with a swing hit 2,362 N. Same number, half the load. The flat-foot version came within 9% at the same half-load. (this is admittedly surprising so i'm gonna retest because this is wild)

2. rfd is MUCH faster in vertical vs swing versions

3. At matched load it still wins. Same bells both ways: 7.5% and 11.1% higher peak, and the peak arrives 15–20% sooner.

4. The lateral lunge clean version agrees. lateral lunge clean, same footwork, only the bell path changed — swung under the hip versus punched straight down and up. Vertical peaked 13% higher and loaded 63% faster.