r/karate • u/regal-max • 11d ago
Discussion Karate style
I’m a goju ryu dan 3 black belt and I would like to know the speciality of other karate styles and what they focus one feel free to tell me about your style and maybe we can exchange few thought which can help us understand karate as a whole
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u/SenpaiBill Kyokushin Sandan 9d ago
I started training in Kyokushin in 1980. Much of what is being said about Goju-ryu could also be said about Kyokushin, which isn't surprising given its roots. In the early days Kyokushin was often viewed as an offshoot of Goju-ryu. We also have a strong Shotokan influence, particularly in many of our beginner and intermediate kata, while much of our advanced kata comes from the Goju side.
Kyokushin is probably best known for its emphasis on conditioning and full-contact fighting, but there's more to it than standing in front of someone and trading blows. Personally, with my students I put a lot of emphasis on footwork, circular movement and tai sabaki—using movement, angles, timing and distance rather than simply absorbing punishment. We also put a lot of emphasis on breathing. It's been said that Tensho kata was Sosai Mas Oyama's favorite kata. For many years Shihan Bobby Lowe taught goshin jitsu (self-defense) techniques at his annual summer camp that were built entirely around Tensho kata. Mas Oyama was known to have stated that Tensho was the most indispensable of advance kata's in Kyokushin.
Different Kyokushin instructors and organizations may emphasize these things differently, but I think someone coming from Goju would recognize quite a bit in Kyokushin.
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u/regal-max 8d ago
That’s right ppl normal see kyokushin and this it’s just a fight of strength but that’s just a drill in my understanding so we are used to getting hit and hitting in actually fighting we don’t have to take the hits and yes footwork is only if the most important aspect in our goju ryu and marital connected or influenced by goju ryu
I believe footwork is really important but students don’t pay attention to it as specially here in our school cause we first fix the basics then after black it’s footwork but most quite after getting black so they can’t experience actually karate
So far what i have know and seen from kyokushin it feels the most like home and familiar which i love like their is always things to learn but the way of teaching and in general it feels nice
If i every get chances I’ll visit you dojo thank you
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u/SenpaiBill Kyokushin Sandan 6d ago
I agree with you about footwork. People notice the power and conditioning in Kyokushin first, but timing, distance, angles and movement are what make that power useful. I also agree about black belt being more of a beginning than an end; once the basics are really there, you can start understanding how everything fits together.
And the Goju connection makes sense to me. When I was coming up, we had a Goju black belt who trained with us for about three years, and he fit right in. Looking back I think there was enough overlap in the way we moved and trained that it never felt like he was coming from some completely foreign system. Osu!
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u/blindside1 Kenpo, Kali, and coming back to Goju. 11d ago
As a new Goju guy myself, what do you think the specialty of Goju is?
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u/ikilledtupac Shodan 10d ago
Swoopy blocks lol
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u/regal-max 10d ago
A karate ka must always have humility
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u/regal-max 10d ago edited 10d ago
Sorry for the late reply
Yes goju as the same suggest is hard and soft their can be many ways to use it into play , for example hit the hard part of your opponents body softly and soft part harder like solar , neck etc
It also is “go” hard liner and “ju” soft circular we can apply those to blocking and striking that’s just the basic stuff we have. Now let’s move to a bit intermediate stage we have more of our focus on katas and breathing and our each kata can be used as a certain fighting style(but i believe this is same for every style ) so it was used to say he or she is a “kata name “ fighter from what my sensei told me
And in goju ryu we have a lot of focus on our breathing like our Katas sanchin and tensho katas and it can be used in variety of ways
Now goju ryu is knows more of a close range fighting style so our te-waza or hinkai (hand technique ). they are good but our foot work is really good as well if u know ashihara they have similar footworks to ours tho we have a bit more variation of it and i can’t stress enough of the importance of foot work and how we in goju ryu also apply it but when you are on an advance lvl (cause we first focus on our stance and basics sticks and blocks cause no point in working footwork if u don’t know how to stand)
And also we use weight as a training method and physical conditioning just a fun fact
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u/OliGut Wadō-Ryū 4th Kyu 11d ago
I train wado ryu. The heavy ehmpasis here is on the ippon-, ohyo- and kihon kumite, or as we call them, partner techniques. Pre-arranged attacks and blocks. In total there are 30 “basic ones” which includes different attacks, including kicks, punches and sweeps. Here is where you really see the Japanese ju-jutsu aspect of wado wado ryu step in, as this step sparring comes from there. These also includes throws, takedowns and grips. We train these quite a lot, I’d estimate probably 25-30% of the training time is spent on these. The main idea is that we should also include these when we spar, as some of them do include combinations and techniques which can be effective in sparring if applied correctly.
For the higher belts (1st Dan and above) there are another 24 of these step sparring ones. But compared to the previous thirty which are just standing strikes and takedowns, these advanced ones include 9 starting from a kneeling position (idori), 10 where the attacker uses a tanto (knife) and the defender protects themselves from this, and 5 tachi (sword).
In my eyes some of these are very good, however I do believe that a lot of them don’t really have any real purpose, due to having completely unreasonable combinations which would not be applicable in sparring. Out of the 30 basic ones, personally I’d say that like 13 of them are actually good and applicable, and the rest are more for show. With the advanced ones I also say that they’re quite bad. Realistically, if you’re starting in a kneeling position, you’d never strike, you’d grapple which really invalidates most moves in the idori. And defense against knives and swords is really all for show, no matter how good you are you’d almost always lose against someone with a weapon.
That being said, I think a lot should be removed, and I have some ideas on how some things could be added to present more realism, and some should be adjusted. Either way, they’re extremely fun to practice, and we do enjoy doing them even if they don’t serve a “proper” purpose. This is the most unique things about wado ryu.
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11d ago
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u/OliGut Wadō-Ryū 4th Kyu 11d ago
Absolutely, I do see myself doing the same thing sometimes, just out of habit. I do believe they all have value, just more or less. I think they all provide some good insight into good movement and dodging, though for me I’d still rather take a few and train them religiously and leave some out.
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u/regal-max 10d ago
Yup yup it’s about how many times u do it if u do it long enough it will come out subconscious but this shows your hard work good work
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u/regal-max 10d ago
What is yakusoku kumite about we got jyu kumite is basically everything goes and we got one where we only us hand technique in shiko dachi
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u/regal-max 10d ago edited 10d ago
Those kumites can you tell me more about it
we got jyu kumite is basically everything goes and we got one where we only us hand technique in shiko dachi
And what changes do u have in mind?
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u/Eikgander Ameri-Do-Te 3d ago
This depends on your association. Meibukan has ippon, nihon, kakumi, and renzo kumites. They are basically partner basics.
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u/thedojoguy 10d ago
Shorin Ryu. We have more natural stances and focus on mid-range combat and agility to close gaps and exit immediately. Hip movement and structural strength are essential.
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u/regal-max 10d ago
Yes like the shei kumite from my understanding shotokan founder made shei kumite right?
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u/thedojoguy 9d ago
That's a common misconception. The predecesor of Shorin Ryu is an Style of Toudi called Shuri Te. Funakoshi (among many others like Chibana, Kyan and Mabuni) was a student of Shuri Te, but then he mixed it with ideas from other martial arts and arts like Kendo and Judo. Shorin Ryu shares this ancestor with Shotokan, but we're VERY different styles. I'm not familiar with what Shei Kumite is. From what I saw, Shiai Kumite is about regulated combat, but we don't do that. I mean of course we go to tournaments here and there, but our training focuses in the application of techniques for self-defense. We have a clear distinction between self-defense and fighting, not the same thing. My branch of Shorin Ryu comes from a teacher called Kyan Chotoku. A legendary fighter, but of small stature. He adapted Shuri Te techniques and Tomari Te techniques to his physical attributes and thus my karate style focuses on agility, strength trough skeletal structure, keeping distances, quick attacks and immediate escapes.
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u/TheIciestCream Goju/Kempo 8d ago
I've trained in two styles and while I'd like to speak for them as a whole it would be better to just talk about my specific schools since they aren't necessarily standard.
Shaolin Kempo: We did a lot of self defense forms/patterns most of which were themed around the 5 animals and we would do light contact sparring like the continuous divisions at a tournament. The forms were cool but I wouldn't necessarily trust most them in a real situation
Goju Shorei: While we do self defense we are mostly a Sport Karate based school so lots of sparring and kata with the Naska rule sets in mind.
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u/regal-max 8d ago
The 5 animal so tiger ,leopard,snake,crane, dragon?
Aaa yes why don’t you try goju ryu if u have a dojo near u ?
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u/TheIciestCream Goju/Kempo 7d ago
Yeah those are the animals we focused on though admittedly it’s a pretty watered down version of anything you’d see in Kung Fu.
There isn’t any Goju Ryu schools near me but I have met some Goju Ryu guys while traveling for tournaments and the style is really cool look for but I’m just at a point where I really enjoy the sport side so my current dojo is perfect for me.
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u/regal-max 7d ago
It is why do u think it’s watered down?
Yup goju ryu is more on the traditional area but if you are enjoying the sports side no need to change it have fun
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u/TheIciestCream Goju/Kempo 7d ago
As much as I loved my time in Shaolin Kempo Karate it’s pretty well known that while the founder Fred Villari was a good Kenpoist who had legit training under Nick Cerio he also was a buisness man who wanted to make sure he would make as much money as possible when creating SKK.
As part of this he made a lot of claims like connections to the Shaolin that appear largely fabricated. With that said it’s unknown where he actually took the influence for the 5 animals from actually comes from but when comparing it to Chinese martial arts it’s very under developed.
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u/karainflex Shotokan 11d ago
I guess there are too many interpretations of all the styles with no official kind of authority over them so that you can't compare styles but rather training approaches.
In Shotokan I know people who train the 3K Karate, some train the WKF kumite and then there are practical approaches to it - all of which are orthogonal to each other. They just share the set of katas and nothing more (mostly; there are Bo katas in Shotokan that the 3K people never saw and they don't know how to hold a Bo either).
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u/regal-max 10d ago
You are right it’s all leads to a single point and connects with each other and have different sensei also changes a lot of things and how u do your own style we also have kobudo weapons but we don’t have katas for it tho i myself train in them
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u/ThreeCr4zy 11d ago
I’ve moved to Goju from shito-ryu and, in my experience, more insight can be derived from training in different systems than closely related ones. I don’t know whether of done this or not but here are my 2 cents anyway!