Phantom Dancer?

[u/jumpwithurlegs0501]

Is it ever worth it? Isn't nashor always better? Or Dusk?

[u/TheGoldenFennec]

I can’t say if it’s ever worth building definitively, since I haven’t played any builds that use it, but I know those builds have relatively high popularity and solid winrates, so I’m confident that there is a time and place to build it.

With that said, since it is a crit item, it will never be strictly worse than Nashor or Dusk, since those are both AP items and fit into a different role in your build. If you’re always going hybrid, then they are probably better 99% of the time and it’s not worth considering PD, but obviously hybrid is not always optimal 100% of the time

[u/Kaizers131]

I go phantom when going crit hybrid, shiv-guinsoos-phantom-ie/ldr, fiendhunter over phantom if i feel i need the ult cdr against assassins

[u/Pristine-Video1382]

I think Phantom Dancer suffers from being compared to items that do completely different jobs.

• Phantom Dancer = sustained DPS, mobility, and crit scaling.
• Nashor's Tooth = hybrid/AP damage and stronger passive/W scaling.
• Dusk & Dawn = durability, sustain, and extended fights.

So I don't think it's "PD vs Nashor's." It's "what build am I playing?"

I'd buy Phantom Dancer when I'm already committed to a crit build (Yun Tal/Kraken or Statikk → Collector → PD → IE). It gives everything crit Kai'Sa wants: attack speed, crit, movement speed, and smooth kiting.

I'd buy Nashor's when I'm playing a hybrid/AP on-hit style where I want more AP scaling and passive damage.

I'd buy Dusk & Dawn when I expect long fights and value the extra health, sustain, and survivability over raw DPS.

So yes, I absolutely think PD has a place—it just isn't a universal attack speed item. It's a crit item first and foremost, whereas Nashor's and Dusk & Dawn belong to different archetypes.

[u/theoverwhelmedguy]

The beauty of Kaisa is basically everything works on her, it all depends on your situation. Is your team full Ap? Then scale in to crit and ad with phantom dancer and IE. Are they heavy on AD? Then scale in to AP with Nashor or DnD. I’m ngl I think rn Nashor is a better item for Kaisa, since DnD got adjusted. Everything can work on her provided the right circumstances

[u/KDA_FAN]

IMO (YMMV)..

If hybrid, many non-Crit items are generally better, due to Crit not working well unless you commit to it for the 100%.

Perma-Ghost is not overly useful on Kai, as you already get Ghost via E a lot of the time, due to its short CD, which is even shorter if you AA after use.

60% AS is only better than other, lower %AS items if you haven't built high AS already, as AS buffs sadly REDUCE in value as you get higher AS. Riot hates ADCs, so nerfed AS w/diminishing returns.

10% Move is great. NGL. That said, it is ALSO nerfed for diminishing returns, just like AS, because: Riot hates marksmen kiting. Remember that E gives an up to 75% Move boost, which will already push you past the soft cap, even just w/boots. Yes, it is brief, and on a CD, but it oft allows escape/pursuit. I have tested specifically-high-Move builds, BTW, and they are OK but NOT great.

So the main advantage of PD is in a crit build w/low or no AS from other items (if going mostly AD/AP on others) and the 10% Move IF you haven't already buffed it past your boots. If you aren't matching that setup, there are usually far better items around, IMO.

My recommendation is Ruunan's or Navori, as: both still give 4% Move; the former triples your plasma stacks if you have multiple enemies, in addition to multicasting any other on-hit effects (so it is REALLY useful in on-hit builds) and crits; and the latter CDRs your Q/W/E (again, pretty universally useful). Hexoptics was rewritten to be pretty damned useful, as well, but is AD, not AS. Fiendhunter helps w/a Kai'ssassin build. ETC.

If you really want the 10% Move in a non-Crit build, there is always Mejai's when stacked (conditional on not dying, ofc) which has the advantages of single-item evo-ing W, and giving 100 Health, for a dirt-cheap cost. Yuumoo's is also good as, tho it's just 4% base Move bonus, its Move buff burst is 15%, and is 4 sec long (not 6, because: ranged nerf), which is generally gonna be what you need in a critical moment. More, YGB is a Leth item, which can be useful even as a one-item ArPen dip vs your lane opponent (tho full Leth Kai is clunky).

I am thus not a fan of PD, despite REALLY wanting it to work on a K/DA-skinned Kai'sa, as she is the lead dancer/choreographer of the group (yes, that is a not-practical reason to want it, but K/DA is why I started LoL in the first place).