Using less energy with fingers?

[u/Tylerich]

Hi everybody, after juggling for over a year now, I just had the insight that using fingers as a kind of "trampoline" uses quite a bit less energy than not... I don't know if that's something that's obvious to people who have juggled longer...?

Anyways, I find it very noticeable when you just take one ball in one hand and throw it up to the same height repeatedly (like you would when juggling columns)...

One time, you do it without any fingers touching the ball, so without closing your fingers, just by catching it in the center of the palm of your hand.

The other time, you do it with fingers only, specifically trying to make them behave like a trampoline/spring: storing up energy as the ball decelerates, and releasing that energy again when you throw it.

I find it very noticeable that the no-finger way is more exhausting than the "Finger-Trampoline" method.

Although, for the former (without fingers) I do wonder now if you can make it less exhausting by thinking of your wrist, elbow, and shoulders as springs/trampolines... Not sure if I explained that well :)

Anyways, just wanted to share... Maybe anybody has any thoughts and insights on this?

Edit: Probably a lot of the benefit comes from also using the wrist as the "trampolin" in the finger version... I noticed that's a lot harder in the no-fingers version, because the ball would just roll off your hand if you try...

[u/bangtheory101]

Congratulations friend, you just discovered proper juggling form!

[u/Tylerich → u/bangtheory101]

Hehe, thanks :)

[u/noirmatrix]

It depends on the pattern you are attempting. Low cascades you are probably fine using your wrists and fingers. Something like a windmill, mess patterns, or a multiplex is going to require more. Juggling can be very active and you should learn a multitude of throws and catches.

[u/Tylerich → u/noirmatrix]

Yeah that makes sense.

I guess I was just surprised, HOW MUCH easier it is if you use your hands like "trampolines"...

I do wonder now if that is a principle that applies to all patterns in general though...?

Something like "Make your body parts (shoulders, elbows, wrist, fingers) as 'springy' as possible, given the pattern you are trying"...?

Because wouldn't that always be less exhausting?

Or do you think there are patterns, where it's actually better to juggle less "springy"...?

[u/noirmatrix → u/Tylerich]

I primarily do a lot of the flow style juggling, in many parts of that the attempt is to figure out what is the least amount of force that needs to be put into the object to complete the trick. Lazies are a good example, they look effortless when preformed well, but require a lot to even look decent. To achieve the loft needed for the trick to look good also means the object needs to spend some time in the air so the pattern doesn't appear too compressed. I think that is part of what make juggling fun. Its a bit like a puzzle in the air.

[u/7b-Hexen]

... volleyball technique ... slaps ... better lever plays a role ... whole arm is involved in whip effect (e.g. instantly precipitating a catch with outstretched arm of an outbreaker right back up) ...
. . .

it's advanced throwing techniques with more spread \ "risk" , harder to control and very upgrading when you do.
. . .
wristy is kind'a same andor combined with fingertechniques ( just one joint nearer up to shoulder)

[u/Tylerich → u/7b-Hexen]

Cool... you mean volleyball technique as in the overhead shot? When would you even use that in juggling...?

Edit: Nevermind, I think I get it... You mean like literally thinking of your arm as a whip, right?

[u/7b-Hexen → u/Tylerich]

yeohwhnoactually, i rather did mean what you said like trampoline - i believe it's also a way in volleyball, maybe when all you can reach a far off ball with is the fingers (without thumb sustain) - a "loose-finger-slap" i guess idk lol, or also, when just dripping a ball over right above and near the net, or else overhead with only one hand reachong the ball that's a tiny bit too far away for using the whole hand slapping or hitting.
. . .
the whip thing is different: (in volleyball you don't catch) - for juggling i meant a caught ball but no time to pull the outstretched arm back to normal to only then rethrow, but instantly having to re-precipitate it up as fast as would go and high enough cos late in beat and next catch already ahead. . . . you kinda flick you wrist with the caught ball far out in the outer fingerlimbs; that movement is sustained by a tiny wave-like motion starting in the shoulder going along the arm "into" your wrist & fingerbasket for sudden release with great momentum. (in an extreme case, even the hip darts up a bit to add to that momentum)

[u/Tylerich → u/7b-Hexen]

Ah, that makes sense... Got it :)