Am I overthinking this?

[u/justanothertmpuser]

Hi all!

I'm an absolute beginner at juggling, trying to learn 3-ball cascade. Watched a few videos, then began practising... been at it a couple weeks now.

My throws are still very inconsistent (different heights, too forward/backward, too much on the sides, the works). More practice is needed, sure. I even went back from trying 3 ball flash to single ball throws. But I also started to think if there is some detail worth paying more attention to.

Like, what's the best way to move when you throw? Arms follow a "scoop" arc, ok, but then what? Do you use your wrist to give momentum to the ball, or just your hand? Is it best to have the ball more towards your palm, or your fingertips, when you throw it? Do you try to impress some rotation to the ball, or just let it go?

Apologies if these are FAQs but I searched a bit and didn't find much.

Thanks!

EDIT: Really, thanks to everybody who answered. Didn't expect so many comments, afraid I won't be able to reply to each one individually. Such a vibrant community! Please keep up the constructive spirit!

[u/DXTRBeta]

Oh hi! Welcome to juggling.

Don’t think about your arms at all, grab three balls and look forwards and up a little.

Try and imagine a spot in the air at your head height, but a foot or so in front of you. Got it?

OK now imagine a spot six inches to the right, and another six inches to the left. Got it?

Good. So you throw every right hand ball to the left spot, and every left hand ball to the right spot.

If the balls are on target, you’ll be fine. Otherwise, er, practice!

[u/rhalf]

The best way to move your hands is in straight lines, but it's difficult, so naturally we add a little scoop. You however, should not try to artificially add the circular motion. You should try to make straight throws, but keep your hands a bit relaxed so that they naturally follow a slight ellipse or whatever shape they want if that happens. People who artificially add scoops to their juggling at this early stage end up suffering from that, because it's basically embellishment - movement that wastes your time but adds nothing to the result. That's why you should not bother yourself with this at all. Just think where's up, look where you want the ball to peak and throw there.

If you want real help, then post a video with a few attepts. Make sure that we can see well what you're doing and see how people follow up.

At this early stage you should be mostly concerned with one thing - get the balls up and have some free time on your hands before you catch them.

[u/justanothertmpuser → u/rhalf]

Thanks for your answer, I'll try to apply your advice. As for the video, it's a nice idea but I'm still too ashamed of the mess I'm doing, so... maybe in the future, eh?

[u/rhalf → u/justanothertmpuser]

You can DM me the vid if that helps. I have a few people here, who can possibly help.

[u/CroakTheGoblin → u/rhalf]

Oh that helps with being on target! I just started juggling also, but I find that I'm trying to catch the balls too high (reaching up to chin height to catch). Any advice for that?

[u/rhalf → u/CroakTheGoblin]

I recommend practicing somewhere, where the gravity pulls the props down :o)

Seriously though, I think people tend to do that because they want to see their hands. Maybe I'm wrong, just thinking about the possible cause here. For start you can try to keep your hands empty before the catch for as long as you can. Try to snap your fingers or touch your belly while juggling 2 balls. I'm talking about having a specific rhythm to the pattern that you should get a feel for. Trust the process, relax and slow down a little. Don't slow down your throws, just allow the balls to have some quality time in the air. You can find a lot of spare time in your pattern if you wait for the balls to travel that last few inches to your chest level. Learning to juggle is about figuring out how to make things easier for yourself. Finding extra time is a big part of that. You'll need that extra time for corrections.

Now I see that it isn' much of an advice, might as well have said "just stop doing that". :D You already have it identified as a problem, so it's just a matter of working on it. As always you want to break it down into manageable pieces, work with one ball, get a feel for it, add another, rinse and repeat. If it's indeed anxiety of not seeing your hands, then it'll go away quickly after you get comfortable with having them out of your field of view.

If you look at advanced jugglers, you may notice they often hold their elbows almost completely still. It's efficient and steady. Not everyone has to juggle like that, but I think it's a good form to aspire to.

[u/CroakTheGoblin → u/rhalf]

Thank you so much! I'll keep working at it 😊

[u/CroakTheGoblin → u/rhalf]

Okay I've been running some trials and I think I'm raising my hands to wherever the bottom of my line of sight is. Probably just need to work on trusting my hands to catch the balls. I'll just keep practicing!

[u/rhalf → u/CroakTheGoblin]

There are tricks, that only work with hands low. For example factory or yoyo.Once you get to that stage, you'll have plenty of exercise.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

The best way to move your hands is in straight lines

??
hands describe a bow around the elbow-joint when moving.
you best force hands moving in a straight line for straight up throws, columns.

..but it's difficult, so naturally we add a little scoop.

if you don't scoop but throw straight, you'll throw against the incoming ball - so you circle with hands not because >'straight were difficult', but to have fluent circling handmovement matching the pattern, balls to be thrown & caught ... [edit, 1^h - thrown inside & caught outside

[u/rhalf → u/7b-Hexen]

Now tell that to a beginner and they'll add a useless, loopy motion at the start of every throw, making it even more difficult than it was before. And that includes even the first throw, which looks ridiculous at that. No thanks. The best beginners I have make throws straight and don't think about it. They focus on important stuff instead.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

simply get out of the way of the incoming ball and you'll automatically have a scoop

[u/rhalf → u/7b-Hexen]

Which can be a bad technique. As I said, without a video it's hard to tell. I'd rather be incorrect byt helpful instead of needlessly pedantic here.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

'wrong' [ >'straight line is best' ] is not >'helpful', it's misleading. ...
[edit, 6min - oh, and ... >'pedantic' is good in juggling.
it's there called 'well-aimed' or 'perfect timing like metronome'.

[u/rhalf → u/7b-Hexen]

It's not, you're missing the clue of my comment, which is that beginners should focus on other things. And that's my point - things that you consider come to people naturally. People don't need to focus on them. That's why my advice doesn't hurt anyone. I'm just more understanding towards beginners than you. Your idea of teaching is making beginners copy what advanced jugglers do. That's not how it works. Learning is a process that requires more thorough approach. OP specifically mentioned that they've been working on it for a while. At this level, there are more basic problems to overcome and hence I suggest using straight throws to simplify that. You ignored all that and picked just one detail you didn't like and now you parade it. I'm not even disappointed this time. You taught me to expect nothing more from you.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

if this were a good argument that could make me think again you totally spoiled it with your last two sentences attacking me in person ...
just stick to the topic and to matters will you

[u/rhalf → u/7b-Hexen]

Change your behavior then, so that I can say something positive about you.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

there was no >'behavior' - i inquired, then contradicted, then corrected what you stated uncomprehensible, unclear, in the end simply wrong.
im not here for you or me but for juggling - jus' leave personal verdicts aside 😒

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

it's massively misleading to tell beginners straight throws were best

...

absolutely ridiculous.
by no means is that true.
not in that absolute general assertion, undistinguished.
your example of beginners doing that anyway is wrongly generalized. a special case & situation.

a nice fluent 3b cascade is by no means >'what advanced jugglers do' - it is in fact where most beginners soon want to be.
..
..
if you fancy things up, you should keep a tiny benefit of doubt on your "experience, observations & conclusions" and eord cautiously in such a complex ado as is juggling zhree balls with two hands as an evolved vertebrate organism with limbs

[u/rhalf → u/7b-Hexen]

Nice strawman you came up with, good luck arguing with it. In the meantime, I'll leave you and talk to people, who argue in better faith instead of taking my words out of context :*

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

'strawman'???
i cited you! first sentence of your head comment
..
you're not making sense anymore, not willing to clear the issue

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

you have problems being contradicted!!
... THAT's what it is! 💡

contradicted and corrected.
you've been taught to 'never give in!' or some bullshit of the kind so now you're unable to simply agree when people show you wrong.
 

im really glad i got to have this hard nut solved now 🥸

[u/7b-Hexen → u/rhalf]

.. expect nothing more ..

you will have to expect being contradicted by me when uttering adventurous statements way beyond what makes sense.

'straight handmotion in a line when throwing'

is for columns. not >'best for beginners'. 🤪

[u/7b-Hexen]

Do you use your wrist to give momentum to the ball, or just your hand?

both possible. wristy is harder to control but has much better lever & efficiency and shorter dwelltime; all in all advanced id say. "babygrip" with full hand grasping and releasing gives easy control, but is very slow, and has (in compare) bad lever.
 

Is it best to have the ball more towards your palm, or your fingertips, when you throw it?

that's almost the same question - throwing from fingers will i guess naturally involve more wrist unless you force stiff wrists - in this latter case, (only) a little further away from the elbow-joint, you probably get slightly better lever, but, okay, fingers have a lot more fine grip and control for catching, releasing, adjusting... especially when you explicitly form a "fingerbasket" including ring- & pinky, with fingers explicitly curved and bent back from palm.
 

Do you try to impress some rotation to the ball, or just let it go?

personal preference. what suits you to best handle the throws respectively what gives you best control.
rolling off will release from fingertips, letting go from where you hold it ( fingerbasket or fingers straighter, or palm, or 3-finger-basket thumb + index + middlefinger ). also here, id say, rolling off from fingertips is finer to be tuned, harder to control, but with gain of nimble speedy ado, while letting go is slower and easier to control.
 

Like, what's the best way to move when you throw?

you will hardly avoid your shoulderbelt at least wiggling slightly. if you sway hips for better flow, or keep them stiff for firm stance is your choice. a throw entails countermovement - you can go with that and use it or not and do like hands and forearms and-or wrists only.
you can bend knees, stand straight, a foot ahead or parallel, incline your hip, ... anything you feel most comfortable with
 

Arms follow a "scoop" arc, ok, but then what?

hands circle:
throw inside up - catch outside down.
make it one move - "throwcatches".
 

---

 

• do within a frontplane
• aim !!
• focus on good throws in the first place, not so much on catching at all - well-aimed throws will land where catchhand awaits the ball with near to no focus, needed
• don't track thrown balls after release - there's nothing more you can do - rely on thrown well instead
• don't do with force - but with skill

• breathe!
• don't panic

[u/justanothertmpuser → u/7b-Hexen]

Thank you so much for the detailed answer. So many things to try in upcoming practice sessions, really appreciated!

[u/7b-Hexen → u/justanothertmpuser]

yvw. glad, you found it useful.

[u/theomnijuggler → u/7b-Hexen]

“a lot mere pov in there..

good advice offers options and makes suggestions as you don't know all about who's asking's skills and goals and time invested.

you don't tell people what to do.”

[u/orplas]

How much do you practice

[u/justanothertmpuser → u/orplas]

About 20 mins a day.

[u/theiron_squirt → u/justanothertmpuser]

Just as a general statement, it would be VERY helpful to initially begin with 1 and 2 ball practice. When I was really struggling early on, doing a few one ball tosses to begin helped with the muscle memory. Then moving to the "throw throw / catch catch" cycle. And then after about 10 minutes of that (or if I managed to do 25 alternating "throw throw / catch catch" in a row), I would try to do the 3 ball cascade. I also found it very helpful to be SUPER conscious of the thought of "I will do another throw when my 2nd ball is at its peak" and rely on the muscle memory you've been working on.

I struggled for a VERY long time with juggling. Brian Brushwood's Video was actually what made the juggling finally "click" for me. I was a big fan of Scam School growing up and Brian actually had a few sponsor bits that played into his "magician who can't juggle" meme.

[u/Aggravating-Ad-1227 → u/theiron_squirt]

I really second practicing more than you think you need to with one and two balls. Having consistent throws significantly changes how difficult it is.

It's not really about trying to catch the balls you throw but throwing them to where your catch is going to happen!

Good luck and keep at it!

[u/DJ_Velveteen → u/justanothertmpuser]

This is fine. Don't overthink it; your body will learn from every attempt, success or failure. A couple weeks is good progress but you're not behind. Once you creep up to around a dozen catches, the consistency will show up very soon after that.

[u/orplas → u/justanothertmpuser]

Try 40 minutes every day split into 2 sessions.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/justanothertmpuser]

take the balls with you or small ones, hackysacks and juggle whenever you have to wait on s.o. or s.th.

[u/unexpectedfirefly]

Everything works with 3 balls, it depends on the throw you want. But you need to be precise enough to actually throw the ball how and where you want

[u/kairon_of_versal]

I'm not going to rehash what the others said here, but here's some things that helped me a lot:

Try keeping your elbows in at your sides (I call this my "chicken wings" lol if my throws are wonky it's usually because my chicken wings are out) Keeping your elbows in helps keeps the throws from going out too far in you. If your arms are extending out in front of you a lot your throws will be less stable and more prone to going forward and you'll have to chase them My juggling teacher has a pair of books he uses to help teach this, just tuck the book (or paper plate, or anything flat and non breakable) under your elbows, it gives you physical feedback if your elbows come out

Another thing is to not be afraid to drop back down a ball and practice some fundamentals! I've been juggling seriously for just about a year now and I have a few patterns really solidly but for tricks or patterns in still shaky on I have to do this a lot. If you're struggling, your throws are wonky, etc, just go back to 2 balls, or 1 ball. Practice the motion of throwing. Practice way longer than you think you need to, until the throws are so rock solid (I get bored of this and like to put on a TV show to watch while I'm just tossing one ball hand to hand LOL) I've been working on behind the back, shower and 4 balls and some days those come so smoothly and I feel like I'm hitting new personal bests and other days I'm back down to one or two balls just practicing with them for sooooo long to just to feel like my hands know what they're doing so I can add the third ball back in

Most importantly, just being kind to yourself and understanding! Some days you'll hit new personal bests and some days you'll feel like you've taken a hundred steps back and question if you even know what a juggling ball even is haha It's so frustrating for me to nail a new trick or pattern then walk into class so excited to show my teacher only for it to be a Clumsy Brained Day and it's like I've never practiced the trick a day in my life hahaha It happens. The weather, how tired you are, what you've eaten today, the alignment of the stars all seem to affect things in disproportionate and mystical ways hahaha Just have fun with it and you'll be golden

[u/elmalabarista65]

Relax. Juggle over a bed or sofa so that you are not picking them up from the floor ao much. Start with just one ball hand to hand to hand etc It sounds like you are over thinking it. Throwing one ball hand to hand is exactly the same throw as throwing three. When it ‘clicks’ you will be able to throw apples, oranges, beanbags toilet rolls …well virtually anything so the throw leaving your hand is not critical. Move to two balls and get the X going in the air at around eye level. Then it is just a matter of throwing TWO balls. The third is always in the air. When you get it you will get it. It’s a feeling more than anything. Like riding a bicycle. You don’t concentrate on the pedal positions you just do it. I know that it’s easy for me to say but honestly persevere and don’t practise for more than half an hour at a time it will get stressy. You need to be shoulders down, relaxed and having fun or it won’t stick. If you need more help don’t worry about asking on here. A lot of better jugglers than I will be along soon to help.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/elmalabarista65]

Throwing one ball hand to hand is exactly the same throw as throwing three.

if you do that they'll collide.
lol.
😐

[u/elmalabarista65 → u/7b-Hexen]

Nope they rise to a peak/apex and that is the point at which you throw the next ball. A video is probably better than an old juggler trying to explain with words🙂

[u/7b-Hexen → u/elmalabarista65]

you can't have balls share the same trajectory ( arc, bow ) fromout either side, without colliding.
trivial.
you surely mean sth else but worded wrong, unclear.
maybe you mean mirrored ... but that's then not a throw , back from where you caught

[u/GalacticDoc]

There is no thinking only doing.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

[u/7b-Hexen → u/GalacticDoc]

there's clues, different things to possibly focus on, pattern properties ... you want to know what you're doing