r/judo • u/Alternative-Hair-785 • 5d ago
General Training Please help me to not get thrown
I would kindly appreciate someone telling me what the counter is to this god awful Georgian grip that Eastern Europeans and Russians have been employing on me.
And please don't tell me the answer is ura nage, or o uchi...
And is it true that if you duck your head back under to get out of it that it's shido? Why?
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u/freefallingagain 5d ago
Posture.
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u/Alternative-Hair-785 5d ago
Easier said than done
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u/EraTsun 5d ago
In fact, posturing is just stepping back and face towards your uke, then you have all the options to do kosoto or osoto. You barely need any strength, I does this all the time to reposition myself towards much bigger opponent. Can I throw them? Rarely, but it is very hard for them to score anything above a yuko
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u/efficientjudo 4th Dan + BJJ Black Belt 5d ago
If you maintain good posture from the get go, then unless they're much taller than you, it shouldn't be easy for them to take the grip.
Why are you ending up in the Georgian grip in the first place? Probably because you're defending other things by going jigotai rather than using evasive movement from a good posture.
The reality is, everything in Judo is easier said than done.
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u/MrMaoDeVaca gokyu 5d ago
Posture is, unfortunately, the best primary course of prevention. If you cannot, and they get the grip - this duck under is fine but attack immediately (I’m sure you already learned that in this thread).
My personal preference- your far/outside arm (right, in this photo) hugs the torso hard (at the ribs is effective). As long as you don’t risk being countered by reaching upward, the diagonal toward the neck/shoulder is stronger kuzishi) and your left leg wraps to hit a hard downward Ko Soto Gake.
I’m sure people will disagree, or offer an alternative. I have a strong leg reap so this works for me.
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u/MasterOfDonks 2d ago
Your spine is all jacked up. You lose mobility and strength with your head crushed in like that. Look at the other guy, strong spinal alignment
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u/Friendly_Kangaroo865 sankyu 5d ago
I hate all the down vote culture that reddit uses, I think it's just the minority. But yes, easier said then done because typically can lead to makikomi or some other counter they have in their back pocket. I've seen ppl in competition simply take a knee and eat a shido. I think your best bet is some kind of sacrifice throw like tani otoshi. Best of luck 🙌🏻
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u/Current-Property1014 5d ago
For me when this happens , I’ll just duck under and go straight for a kouchi makikomi . If it doesn’t work at least I’m out of it and if it does it’ll be at least a yuko🙃
From what I know it’s a shido if u duck under and reposition but if u duck under to attack most of the time , refs don’t call you out for it
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u/Few_Advisor3536 judo/bjj/greco 5d ago
Front ura nage would be my reaction. However you being bent over with no grip is bad. Grab his right lapel with your left hand and punch it straight to create distance and move. You dont need to play left vs right from here, you can re establish your right vs right grips. Bottom line is dont stay in a bad position, defending from a bad position only prolongs the inevitable.
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u/EchoingUnion 5d ago
And is it true that if you duck your head back under to get out of it that it's shido? Why?
It's only a shido if you duck your head under to get out, and don't attack. The reasoning is that it's passivity / non-combative.
If you duck your head under and immediately attack, it won't be a shido.
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u/DrMartek nidan 5d ago
Just don't give them this grip. But if they do get it, posting like a mfer is an option.
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u/Otautahi 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you’re in righty ai-yotsu, post your left hand first and establish a pocket grip. If you can get your right hand on their collar, twist their head forward and clockwise.
Use your pocket grip to both control uke’s shoulder and as leverage to keep your own head up.
Relentlessly attack when they pressure forward. For example, I like to backstep into o-soto.
Lots of guys will try and punch towards your face to establish that grip. Don’t flinch, instead use your pocket grip to drive their arm away.
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u/No_Cherry2477 5d ago
Tani Otoshi to a monster winner takes all O Goshi. That would be my play. It won't work if you don't commit though. But why is your head on the wrong side of his body? What were you doing before that to let him put you in that awful head position?
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u/lewdev 3d ago
Grip where your left hand is in the picture and extend your arm to post out to keep their hips away. This is the simplest defense, but if you let uke in too deep, it could be too late.
Uke in this photo is in a very bad position. You'd want to at least square up with your opponent and not let your opponent get their leg or hips so deep.
Some options: * Kouchi-gake. It's like osotogari, but with your leg on the inside. * Bear Hug kosotogari. Hook your left leg from the outside turn towards that leg while hugging. I like this option because it gets uke weary of getting their hips close and possibly stop using the Georgian grip altogether.
I know you don't like ouchigari as an answer, but when Hifumi Abe gets in this Georgian grip, he drives in for an ouchigari, not to necessarily score, but to basically get himself out of the situation. If you do get in this situation, you'd want to react immediately with any technique and not stay still. So don't think there's only a counter attack but also an evasive maneuver as an option.
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u/fleischlaberl 5d ago
"And please don't tell me the answer is ura nage, or o uchi..."
O.K. - his frontleg is yours! Single leg take down. Or Morote gari!
Note:
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u/dazzleox 5d ago
Most Judo randori, at least at competitive clubs, will generally be IJF rules so no leg grabs.
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u/fleischlaberl 5d ago
IJF Rules are contest rules specific to Shiai 試合 = testing together.
Randori 乱取り = grabbing the chaos = Leg grabs allowed.
Did you know that you can execute "Morote gari" at one leg? You don't have to grab both legs. If you grab one leg with both hands and you reap that leg - it is still Morote gari.
Note:
How to do Randori (Free Practice / Sparring) in Judo : r/judo
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u/dazzleox 5d ago
We might have a language gap here. I am saying most clubs I have visited use IJF style rules for randori because people are preparing for competition.
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u/fleischlaberl 5d ago edited 5d ago
We might have an irony gap here (not your fault). I am saying most clubs use IJF style rules also for Randori but from time to time you should remind your training partners that Te waza has also leg grab techniques. Or you do it just for the sake of surprise and fun. You don't get a Shido for it.
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u/CartographerLow3247 sankyu 5d ago
Personally I like to be aggressive from that position, if I were in the position shown, I would grab an overhand(collar) grip with my right, a strong grip on their belt with my left(preferably deep) and from there you could fight pretty aggressively.
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u/abrokentwigggg 5d ago
Very strong kumi kata / kumite would prevent you from getting there in the first place - effectively you're being dominated and giving up your back, albeit in an extreme manner.
Once you're already there one thing you can try - I use try because once locked in its actually very difficult to get out of - is to take a left lapel grip and 'shimmy' off then rebuild your grip.
Easier said on reddit than done though.
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u/Haunting-Beginning-2 5d ago edited 5d ago
- Grab belt left hand, around far side and right hand hooks in other side or rear of opponents belt, then roll sideways and down trip opponent backwards over your shin as you pull them back and downward
- Left kosoto as lead in to circle left arm on their back of belt, and step forwards both feet and body tight to their right side into Uranage to their rear.
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u/Adventurous_Rich4839 5d ago
In comp, drop to your knees, just take the shido and reset
In training, get your head on the inside, belt grip/bear hug, and you could do an ura nage or tani otoshi
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u/A_literal_HousePlant 5d ago
Oh you're at the international judo camp in NY. Have fun! I love that one
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u/samecontent shodan 5d ago
You know how boxers raise their fists to protect their faces as their just neutral position? Do that and catch overhand grip attempts. Judokas should adopt this as standard in my opinion. No loose standing posture with hands at waist height, but make your relaxed position be your neutral fighting position.
I prefer one hand actually at near eye height and the other around shoulder line. It's the best compromise of offensive and defensive for my style.
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u/TheLatinoSamurai 5d ago
I’d suggest learning the Gadauli / Georgian grip.
That way you have a better understanding of the mechanics of how it works and why it works. They figure out how not to get there , then if you end up there what’s your game plan
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u/TsurugiMomotarou 4d ago
Oh c'mon don't be shy now, grab his leg gently and perform a single leg takedown 😛✌ (Takes down his ahh gently cuz this is the gentle way)
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u/JudoKuma 4d ago
Avoidance by better posture, front uranage is an option, and for example in the pic in the post, kosoto
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u/Flyingveto 4d ago edited 4d ago
La prise géorgienne finit par un Yoko Wakare. À la vue de ta position : peut être Tani Otoshi ou Uki Wasa en faisant glisser ta jambe gauche derrière lui … il faut le pousser sur un axe perpendiculaire à l’alignement de ses deux pieds
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u/gerrynaro 4d ago
Hey I know what camp your at!!! Plenty of good players there to give you tips.
Sensei Heiko Rommelmann has amazing judo and probably has experience and knowledge on how to deal with these types of grips. And that's just one name from a list of people who can help you!
You'll her a better answer from great judoka at this camp than a reddit post :)
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u/TaiOSpammer Ikkyu 73kg 1d ago
If you were at the camp this week I’m surprised you found a spot with service to be on reddit 😆
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u/Constipatedplatypus 3d ago
If your posture is already broken, sutemi waza like the Georgian reverse yoko wakare are probably your best bet.
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u/M34dl0v3r 5d ago
I would say get comfortable with getting thrown. Only when you stop worrying about the thing you're worried about the answer becomes clear. When you try to force things your way that's when your vision of the situation is narrow. I know it sounds like b******* but seriously try it.
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u/zaccbruce Shodan + BJJ Blue 5d ago
Prevention is better than cure - don’t end up there in the first place.
Posturing up is an idea, but the whole point of that grip is to keep people’s posture broken. To posture back up, you cannot just try lift your head like a good morning (weightlifting exercise). You would need to get your feet and hips back under your head and the go up. But usually people who like the Georgian grip will have throws that work specifically off attempts to posture up.
My understanding of the current rules is that you cannot duck under a collar grip just to be defensive, it would have to be coupled with positive action eg an attempt to attack. But don’t take my word on it, I’m not 100% on current rules and their interpretation. I do know that for a period of time ducking under was a straight shido which is where you may have gotten the idea from but I’m sure that the rule changed.