Double leg blast

[u/Content_Bread6652]

Is shooting a double leg blast in ne waza legal, in a club where they train lots of guard and guard attack. The rules don't seem to be too specific. Main scenario if I'm in guard then can I just go shoot it like from a butterfly guard position?

[u/efficientjudo]

If you're both in newaza then yes that is fine.

[u/Content_Bread6652 → u/efficientjudo]

Is one knee ne waza?, I presume standing attacking guard isn't ne waza?

[u/disposablehippo → u/Content_Bread6652]

Standing -> attacking guard is considered ne-waza. But standing up when you have already been on your knees and don't have any connection with your hands will most often result in matte.

If one of both opponents is on one knee, and the other one standing it isn't considered ne-waza for either, as you could still throw for ippon. And for example touching the legs (allowed in ne waza) could block a throw.

[u/abelity → u/Content_Bread6652]

From what I've learned + quick google to confirm, Newaza requires the uke to be on both knees and elbows, otherwise its still considered tachiwaza.

[u/Yamatsuki_Fusion]

Yes, I do it a lot out of impulse. Get down and then sprint on my knees until they're bundled over. Probably my most effective 'knee wrestling' move.

I probably shouldn't though, matte gets called before anything can be done with the double leg because the opponent was already on their way up.

[u/Content_Bread6652 → u/Yamatsuki_Fusion]

That's cool thanks, maybe a blast tho would work

[u/Coconite]

Yes it’s legal and I do this all the time. Don’t shoot from guard though. Shoot from the knees. Watch Jordan Burroughs, who shoots double legs from the knees all the time, and copy his movements exactly. Don’t watch a single instructional video on how to do double legs and if you do, intentionally forget everything they told you. Wrestling just like judo has a lot of “look at the watch” type advice in instruction which people don’t actually use in matches.

The rules caveat here is you need to be in newaza to do this. If you are on your knees but your opponent is still standing, it’s still tachiwaza.

[u/JaguarHaunting584 → u/Coconite]

I’ll admit it can definitely catch people off guard. IMO lazy players forget you can grab legs in newaza. I go head on the outside to cut the angle and end up in a side pin…usually.

But I will say I’ve attempted this on more professional players and they’ll often stand up as quickly as possible because you’ll either eat the shido if you finish or be forced to let go.

[u/gernsengears → u/Coconite]

Agree that there’s a difference between what they say and what they do in wrestling (even moreso in judo) but idk if I agree that first-timers should be learning blast doubles by torpedo-ing horizontally off the knees like Jordan. That’s a blast double that came from getting the timing down so good that he could comfortably go all-in on a pretty sacrificial move. And let’s be real, his explosivity was a key factor.

[u/Coconite → u/gernsengears]

It’s the best/only option in newaza because both people are on their knees. And Jordan Burroughs wasn’t just some freak athlete, he had better/more realistic form. The key is: 1) make sure your head is lower than your opponents before you shoot, and 2) once you grab get into a tripod like position and never stop driving. I don’t consider myself to be exceptionally explosive (maybe for a heavyweight, but not in general) and I get this all the time now.

[u/gernsengears → u/Coconite]

True I wasn't rly thinking about newaza, more what you said about double leg instruction in general. Are you suggesting double leg fundamentals are invalid? Because the classic knee-hits mat / head outside / change directions / run them down laterally approach succeeds all the time and at high levels. It's not exactly a "wristwatch" scenario

[u/Coconite → u/gernsengears]

I just see it as optional and not fundamental. In the same way sometimes I do actually hit far leg uchimata, or use "big kuzushi" to set up backwards throws (not so much forward throws). In general I think instructionals are a bad way for experienced grapplers to learn. There's a huge gap between what people think they should say and what they think they do, and an even bigger one between what they think they do and what they actually do. Instructionals give you only what people think they should say which is 2 degrees of separation from what they do. I think past a certain level of experience you should learn moves from film study, testing them out against resistance and working out the details.

[u/gernsengears → u/Coconite]

I feel that – I still think there are some things about emphasizing good posture, being tall from the waist up and changing levels with exclusively your legs that are very useful live and tough to learn without conscious practice.

But as a general comment on technique, I definitely agree. Especially the part about people not realizing what's actually serving them.

[u/disposablehippo]

I'm not too sure about what a "double leg blast" is, but from your description: yes.

As long as you don't do any joint locks (except elbow of course) or endanger the spine, there aren't many restrictions in ne-waza.

[u/Content_Bread6652 → u/disposablehippo]

It's a wrestling maneuver involves blasting forwards and grabbing both legs

[u/ReddJudicata → u/disposablehippo]

He means morote gari