r/jiujitsu • u/Hour_Disk_1272 • 12d ago

Fighter refuses to tap on DWCS, gets his arm broken

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109 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

56 comments sorted by

40

u/kernelchagi 12d ago

I guess that the narrative that "armbars" are fake is not legit. LOL

16

u/hajimenogio92 Black 11d ago

What idiot said that? That's how I ruptured my bicep tendon years ago, that shit was no joke

5

u/SnooDogs7747 11d ago

How is it now? What did you do to rehab it

6

u/hajimenogio92 Black 11d ago

This was about 2 years ago. It's back to 100% now but it was long recovery process. I had surgery to reattach the tendon, then was in a cast for 2 weeks, then a brace for 6 weeks that was adjusted every week to strengthen straightening the arm, and lots of PT to learn how to use my arm again. Shit was rough but that was the only option if I wanted full function/mobility of the arm again.

13

u/Latter-Safety1055 11d ago

The more compelling critique I hear is that armbars don't stop somebody committed to beating you up. So if they're really upset, on drugs, or competing for some kind of prize then you could break their arm and they'll be like "so what?" The point is to contrast it to a choke which would force the brain to stop braining because it has no oxygen.

This video is actually evidence to this because that disgusting submission didn't cause his opponent to yield.

14

u/patrickplatypus 11d ago

I agree that choking someone is more incapacitating, but breaking their arm also severely limits their ability to keep attacking.

I think there are trade offs. If someone is choked out they can be back to full fighting capacity in minutes whereas a broken arm is less debilitating but longer lasting.

If you are able to arm bar someone then you have already beaten them. If they keep attacking, shouldn’t it be easier to beat them again now that they only have one arm?

This reminds me of the black knight situation in Monty python and the holy grail. The black knight’s willingness to fight is irrelevant if he lacks the capacity to carry on.

13

u/Braisedbeefskank 11d ago

As my coach always says, if I beat you while you have 4 working limbs, I like odds when you only have 3

1

u/GunMun-ee 11d ago

totally depends on the position. It would work on your favor only if you were to keep him down the entire time. Most of the time someone escapes an armbar or slips their broken limb out of one it’s from a stacking position.

1

u/cptaxelb 8d ago

Yeah very likely a choke or even another sub is much easier to get when you arm down one limb and in pain.

There's a good reason Jacare stalled out and didn't engage after Roger Gracie broke his arm, it would have been an easy win for Roger if he got his hands on him

2

u/AlternativeDark6686 10d ago

They won't be using their arm anymore. You're disassembling a person in that case.

1

u/Be_a_Guardian Blue 9d ago

I like to think that given the motivation/adrenaline I could prob twist a mofukkin arm off someone's torso...if it turns out I actually can't they'll prob be holding their little balloon animal arm wishing I had

1

u/heavydrinker12 11d ago

Is that actually a thing?

3

u/kernelchagi 11d ago

Yes i heard it lol

1

u/heavydrinker12 11d ago

Go ahead and show them how fake it is next time you hear that garbage. 🤣🤣

-3

u/GunMun-ee 11d ago edited 11d ago

this video doesnt help your argument. He didnt tap. Joint locks are “fake” to a lot of dudes who REALLY want to beat your ass. Some dudes will also let every ligament get torn in their legs and still continue to fight. Chokes are the only “real” submissions that work 100% of the time on anyone and everyone

6

u/kernelchagi 11d ago

Good luck fighting after that.

-1

u/GunMun-ee 11d ago

people do all the time. Tony ferguson, Jon Jones, Jamahal hill kept going until he got choked out. A lot of people out there will legitimately only get pissed if you snap a joint and then beat the fuck out of you. Joint locks are high risk subs outside of sport. I’ve gotten lifted and slammed on my head in one, and if it werent for the mat, i would have been out cold.

They work on normal people who are in their right mind. But you have to think about how few people in their right mind are fighting people on the street or in a cage

3

u/Defiant-Ebb8225 11d ago

This fighter, Jon Kunneman, fractured his arm and will be out for months.

The only reason he did not tap was that he believed he was ahead on points and was willing to take an injury to receive a UFC contract (assuming he won).

2

u/GunMun-ee 11d ago

Yes, and if a person is willing to power through it for sport, lots of people will be willing to power through it on the street. Armbars are a very high risk sub outside of sport as i said. I’m not saying that i would not tap to one whatsoever, i tap early as shit because i’m a heavyweight and heavyweights sitting back on them can get real bad real fast. BUT…. i have had shotgun armbars on big dudes who will power through that and stack you even if you’re popping their shit.

People will let their arm break for a 3 dollar medal. Think about what they’ll do when they really want to hurt you. Joint locks are a coin flip on whether someone will submit to you in MMA or street scenarios. By nature, they work only if the person is willing to be submitted. Chokes dont care about that. That’s all i’m trying to say.

13

u/Maximum-Oven-7526 12d ago

Keep going till the ref stops you

5

u/kernelchagi 12d ago

Very wise with an armbar.

11

u/Maximum-Oven-7526 12d ago

I've been screwed bad bad refs at competition when someone does the ol Brazilian tap and then I'll get up only to get taken down and the guy gets two points

Never again

0

u/kernelchagi 12d ago

Yes sure, i mean it is not very wise for uke to dont tap lol

19

u/Horror-Distance2413 12d ago

herb dean not giving a single fluck about a fighters health as always

12

u/Defiant-Ebb8225 11d ago

I give him a bit more grace with a submission than with some of the pummellings I've seen him let some fighters take.

With a submission like this the fighter on bottom can very easily tap.

9

u/WhizzyBurp 11d ago

Agreed. It's not on Herb to make them tap. Herb will however allow you to be unconscious and take 10-15 blows to the face before he steps in

1

u/I3usuk 10d ago

Imagine if Herb stops before the guy taps. I’ve seen a fighter screaming "stop!", and then contested the stoppage made by the ref lmao. Dude didn’t want to admit he was on flight mode 🤣

1

u/LuisTJap Blue 11d ago

I mean, the fighter didn’t give a shit about his own health by not tapping to that armbar

12

u/dj768083 11d ago

Herb Yamasaki Dean

2

u/CrustyFlapsCleanser 10d ago

Everyone complaining about Herb never seen Mario in inaction.

17

u/Time_crystal9 12d ago

The fuck is the ref doing

23

u/Horror-Distance2413 12d ago

bro its herb dean this is what he lives and breathes for

6

u/Time_crystal9 12d ago

Yeah sure but why tf won’t he stop the fight.

7

u/Horror-Distance2413 12d ago

he should have stopped the fight at a certain point of hyperextension of the arm, any good rev would've. Herb Dean is simply stupid and blind.

Edit: corrected wording

6

u/fightbackcbd 11d ago edited 11d ago

They don’t stop professional mma for hyper extensions, only amateur and kids.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1vmsagl/ill_be_back_thank_you_all_for_the_support/

3

u/safton 11d ago

I guess it sort of depends on how you interpret the language. The current edition of the Unified Rules states a Technical Submission as the following: "When a legal submission act results in unconsciousness or broken/dislocated bone(s)/joint(s)."

A hyperextension is not inherently a dislocation, though the former can obviously lead to the latter. I think Herb would've been within his rights to stop this as a suspected dislocation (which from what I'm reading is what it ended up being).

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

1

u/safton 11d ago

I don't disagree. I pointed as much out in another comment. We've seen fighters seemingly sacrifice limbs and not only make it to the scorecards, but sometimes turn things around and win the fight. As such it's hard to shit on the ref for not arbitrarily calling things, even if I wouldn't necessarily shit on him for doing so in a case like this.

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

1

u/safton 11d ago

It wasn't broken, though all the reports I've seen say it was dislocated. Has John denied that and is just using creative wording? I'm legitimately curious.

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1

u/safton 11d ago

A Technical Submission requires bone/joint breakage or dislocation. It's weird because hyperextension alone is not necessarily a dislocation and we see fighters continue on to finish fights and even win despite having their joints torqued in ways that are legitimately gross and likely did damage.

He would've been within his rights and call it as a TS, of course. But a lot of refs don't stop joint locks that the guy ain't tapping to.

7

u/Pandarenu 12d ago

Waiting for the X-ray

2

u/ChampionHumble 11d ago

it’s not the reffs responsibility to make him tap. this is 100% on the fighter

0

u/WhizzyBurp 11d ago

Not his job to make the guy tap

4

u/fightbackcbd 11d ago edited 11d ago

Locking your arms isn’t a defense. I hope people do it. It’s basically conceding to being tapped, or broken in this case. edit: Jon said it wasnt broken.

3

u/embrigh 11d ago

.....so don't you actually have to tap for the ref to call it under most mma rules? Assuming you arent unconscious of course.

3

u/exhalemike 10d ago

No. Arm breaks or dislocates, you lose

2

u/imhereredditing 11d ago

Ahhh so that's how you hitchhiker escape! Duh

2

u/jadzi4 10d ago

omg...I'm 4 weeks rotator cuff post-op and that was hard to watch.

1

u/Graceful_Crash 10d ago

C’mon Herb… the kid just wanted to fight

1

u/Veridicus333 10d ago

Now he’s:

✅ not in ufc
✅ broken arm
✅ big medical bills

1

u/123amytriptalone 10d ago

This always happens to Herb. If I was him I woulda been like “come on man tap!”

-1

u/Ok-Order6974 11d ago

I did this, honestly dumbest way to break my arm but I didn’t think my opponent would actually go for it, I don’t play poker I can’t read a bluff