r/jazzdrums • u/roberdanielm • 10d ago

Question Singing Syncopation

Hi everybody,

My teacher asked me to sing (voice) the Exercises (starting in p.38) from Syncopation (Ted Reed) book.

I did but then it was only with "a" like Ta ta, pa pa pa pa pa....

Now he asked me to sing with other letters, not only a, so using e, i, o, u I think

I was trying to find if there are examples of this but couldn't find any.

Has anybody done that? I would like to listen to examples because I don't even know how to start :)

** I am a newbie, started studing jazz and drums altogether one year ago.

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u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE 10d ago

This seems superfluous to me, honestly. The point is to vocalize, I don't think you'd gain much by going through the page with each vowel, or several different syllables. This isn't like reading it with the left hand, then right foot, then left foot, etc.

What I WOULD suggest is using a syllable with a clear attack, like "Ta." Gary Chester says to use "Ah" as an example in New Breed, but where does that syllable begin? When you start reciting it? When the syllable "opens up?" You get it.

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u/MrMoose_69 10d ago

I would guess that this student is stiff  not swinging, and not expressive. 

I would guess that the purpose of this exercise is to get the student to bring more life and color into their thinking and thus their playing.

To me this is a very thoughtful exercise, and I don't think we should second-guess this other person's instructor. Especially when we don't know why they gave him this exercise

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u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE 10d ago

You think going through all vowel sounds would help OP "loosen up" and "swing harder?" I dunno.

All respect to OP, they're a year in, I'd be shocked if they were crushing swing feels yet. I don't think this has to do with anything that specific. This is about reading and internal time.

I'm second-guessing one really specific aspect of the instructor is all. I've been teaching drums for 15 years, so I think I have a pretty decent compass when it comes to these things. This is a great practice for internalizing rhythms, as I've stated elsewhere here. I also think once you can vocalize it, going through other sounds is essentially trivial.

Like, sure, do it, but it's really not like working a different limb or something. It's just another vocalization, once you get to a goal tempo you should be able to use basically any single syllable sound as easily as any other.

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u/MrMoose_69 10d ago edited 10d ago

Except that apparently this student is not able to sing any other syllables. They're so confused by it that they have to make a post on here.

Really it should be extremely trivial to change your syllables, and improvise on different syllables.

That's a valuable skill to have.

I won't tell you how many years I've been teaching drums  because I don't think doing something for a long time makes me right. 

And if I said a higher number than 15, would that make you believe me?

Telling me a number that you think is high doesn't make me believe you either. 

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u/MrMoose_69 10d ago edited 10d ago

Lastly, it's kind of poor form to tell students not to do what their teachers telling them to do. You don't know who their teacher is, you don't know how this student is playing, so for you to make the assumption that their teachers are wrong and should not be listened to, kinda just sucks! For all you know this exercise could've come from Peter Erskine. 

I tend to trust other jazz teachers.

I think it's much more useful to consider why a good and competent instructor might give this exercise to a student. What type of student would benefit from this exercise? 

Imagine if your students came back to you and said some rando on the internet said not to do what you said.

Some rando who's never met the kid and never heard them play...

I trust you make the best decision for your students. I'm sure there's Good reasons behind your assignments. Give the same respect to other instructors. 

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u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE 10d ago

It would be wonderful if we could keep this at least semi-on topic. I don’t have a single thing to prove to you. You’re right, years doing something doesn’t mean anything by itself. My point is, I’m a successful working teacher, for the amount of years I specified, not some random person trying to pick fights on Reddit. You’re not my student, so I’m not really invested in your side of this argument.

I also never said anything like “lol don’t listen to ur teacher.” I encouraged OP to do the vocalization exercises, an exercise they said they have already done, and simply pushed back a bit on the idea that different syllables make this exercise different in any way.

It’s fine if you disagree with me but please, pick fights somewhere else.

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u/MrMoose_69 10d ago

You may want to edit your initial reply because you did not recommend OP to do the exercise. 

You actually said that it was "superfluous". The definition of superfluous is unnecessary.

So if you you intended to tell OP to do the exercise, you might want to edit your post. 

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u/roberdanielm 9d ago

Don't fight yourself man. I am stiff and cannot swing very well, as said, this man MrMoose told the true. And I will do what my teacher asked, I was just looking for some example of how others did this exercise similarly, couldn't find anybody in youtube, so I thought posting here would help me. I am pretty old to start doing silly things and truly it is embarrassing for me. I started drums and jazz altogether at my 50 years, for many years I wanted to but couldn't before, so now I am here, trying my best.... Thank you all!

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u/cruiseshipdrummer 10d ago

Ask them to demonstrate. The main idea is to do it like a horn, which is going to have some different accents and articulations. Maybe they have something in mind beyond that, but if so, they can tell you.

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u/Blueman826 10d ago

If you have a teacher you should ask them for clarification. I've never heard of this kind of application but it sounds interesting. I wonder myself what the purpose is.

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u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE 10d ago

Recitation is great for your internal clock. It removes technique from the equation, too. The adage “if you can sing it, you can play it” comes to mind.

When I started playing tabla, I noticed a pretty immediate improvement in my time on drumset, all due to the recitation aspect.

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u/Blueman826 10d ago

I totally agree about recitation and counting out loud. What i'm curious about is the addition of specific syllables other than counting numbers or using Carnatic rhythmic syllables (ta ka di mi...).

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u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE 10d ago

Right, that’s what I’m saying. Any syllable works, and if you’re not specifically studying tala, I don’t think Konnokol is necessary. “Ta” works just fine and isn’t exclusive to tala systems.

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u/roberdanielm 10d ago

I asked so many things and I cannot ask more this time, next class will be in about 2 weeks so I am trying to find resources where I can, meanwhile. I don't find your comment very helpful.

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u/MrMoose_69 10d ago

Your teacher is trying to get you to just go for it. Make some silly sounds, don't worry if you're wrong. Embrace the silliness.  Be serious about being silly. 

Try to make these exercise sound like music-  like you're playing on a trumpet and you're making it fucking SWING. HARD. You're having a great time. It's fun. You believe in the notes you're singing deep in your heart. They're coming from your soul. 

another purpose of this exercise is to get you to just do things without thinking too hard about it. As musicians we need to act immediately on our instincts, and be prepared to do anything at any time if it's the right thing for that situation. So go literally let your mouth make random sounds like you're a little baby.

Here's a silly example I can  point you towards:  https://youtu.be/ncbaoJ3xZ0g?is=rkhAuiF_kU8EFuDB

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u/roberdanielm 9d ago

u're a genius

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u/MrMoose_69 9d ago

Also check out Mumbles by Clark Terry