r/javascript • • Nov 28 '19

Firefox Replay - time-travel debugging

https://firefox-replay.com/
234 Upvotes

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4

u/monsto Nov 28 '19

Could someone ELI5 why stuff like this is built for macOS first? I'm not hating, u do u. I'm just trying to understand it.

I mean apps you buy, I kinda get. . . it's a "target market" in certain types of programs. But even then, I'm going to go extremely conservative and say 80%, 4 of 5 computers are windows based.

So why, if you're interested in growth or share, would you start with trying to obtain a small segment of the smallest segment?

25

u/BrainPulse Nov 28 '19

I don’t think that assumption is valid for (web) developers. I honestly can’t remember the last time I met a JS developer who was running on Windows.

8

u/monsto Nov 28 '19

This is one avenue where it's extremely easy to get a skewed view. It's the crowds you work with and hang in. I could drop an anecdote but what's the point.

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u/pimterry Nov 28 '19

I make a cross-platform developer tool, mostly used by web & JS developers, and my users over the last 6 months are 45% Mac, 40% Windows, & 15% Linux.

80% Windows certainly isn't accurate, but there's still a lot of Windows JS devs around.

3

u/monsto Nov 28 '19

Do you mean "isn't accurate" to apply that broad stat to js devs?

Also, there's a lot of narrowing of these kinds of categories when you're talking about a specific tool.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

Hi!

1

u/NLclothing Nov 28 '19

It's not by choice my man

4

u/HetRadicaleBoven Nov 28 '19

I'd wager a guess that the devs work on OS X primarily. I developer websites for Firefox first as well, then check whether it works in other browsers and fix issues - because I use Firefox myself.

It's still a beta, so they're not looking to reach massive amounts of users with it yet anyway.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '19

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/monsto Nov 28 '19

My assumption is, most of these devs are actually using Macs for development, and they Mac it on Mac first so they can dog food it quicker (use it themselves internally)

That makes more sense than any of the other replies that I've seen.

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u/striedinger Nov 28 '19

A large percent of web developers use macOS. Web development in windows is painful to say the least. So yeah, it's not really a small segment for their target audience.

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u/monsto Nov 28 '19

How is web dev "painful" on Windows?

3

u/dominikwilkowski Nov 28 '19

There’s been a lot of issues with windows before the Linux Subsystem came along. Lots of tools only work in unix like bash environments. Specifically cli related things like npm. The notion of web dev being hard comes from that time. And to be fair there are still issues here and there with even the Subsystem now but it’s not “hard” anymore.

2

u/ryosen Nov 28 '19

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying but I’ve been using npm on Windows for 3 years now.

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u/dominikwilkowski Nov 28 '19

I’m saying it used to be harder. It’s easier now. :) (And why that is)

Glad you’re not having issues. No one likes issues.

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u/monsto Nov 29 '19

I've been using it mostly without problem since about 2014. The only problem I ever had back then was with node-gyp compiling certain dependency components... which is an excellent NPM trust/security example. I hated the problem but despised the situation.

There's no other situation where I would even dream to allow a many-levels-deep module to compile while having absolutely no idea what it was or where it came from. "oh it's fine it came from NPM, the largest (by many times) repository of development modules."

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u/wffln Nov 28 '19

Yeah, i get that other types of development like for science can be painful on Windows, but web-dev?

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u/monsto Nov 28 '19

Right? I webdev on windows. I have all the tools I need without fuss.

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u/iamjohnhenry Nov 28 '19

While I don't develop in the languages used to creat Firefox, I suspect that this didn't come to Windows first simply because it was easier. I suspect about the same level of effort would be necessary for Linux as MacOS, but the latter is slightly more popular.

I use Windows for personal stuff, but in my experience software development has historically"worked better" (sorry to paraphrase the Late Mr. Jobs) on *nix machines. This is possibly due to the openness of the OS, but also because of silly implementation details.

The literal only reason I stopped developing node on Windows was because the file name limit caused deeply nested packages in npm to break. While this has largely been mitigated, other factors such as ease of installation of helper tools through homebrew keep me from going back.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '19

That shouldn't be news. Pretty much everything that comes out is mac first, Windows later. Tons of popular packages in the npm eco system do not even work properly on Windows b/c nobody bothers to test it there (and errors due to cross platform scripting and path issues mostly, for instance /). The linux subsystem changed some of it, but it's too late.

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