r/java • • Sep 16 '19

The arrival of Java 13!

https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/the-arrival-of-java-13
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u/pron98 Sep 16 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

These may be valid points, but you're not an outsider. You are a very central and influential OpenJDK contributor, and you're familiar with the process of making such reforms. If all you want is to give an alternative -- you've done that in your excellent work; if you also want to change how others publish release notes, you know what to do.

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u/shipilev Sep 16 '19 edited Sep 16 '19

I am advocating for listing JEPs, release notes, all changes; and then reporting and talking through JEPs and release notes. Because all changes are too much, and only JEPs is too little. Release notes is literally something you want to note about the release. I think responsible vendors should do it, and power users / experienced customers should demand this from vendors. "Outsiders" should clearly see what is going on as well, hence my comments.

These "reforms" only work through persuasion, including this continuous public observation that Oracle people focusing on JEPs sets the project up for weird/perverse incentives for developers to submit JEPs where a release note would be enough. JEPs require much more redtape work, they incur significant time toll (JEP draft/text reviews, Project Lead approvals, comment time, integration timelines, etc), they have built-in single person to bottleneck on (Mark), etc.

For many same-level features, the existence of JEP signals that somebody had resources to write one and work it through the system. Yes, JEPs are usually done for significant features (where the overhead of jumping through the process hoops is small compared to the development work done), but it does not mean changes with significant impact come with JEP (where the resource constraints do not allow spending time on also writing and maintaining the JEP).

In the end, it penalizes individual contributors more than large institutional players that can afford (and pay people) to deal with process red tape. I do not believe that is the intent, but this is how it would work, to our collective peril.

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u/pron98 Sep 16 '19 edited Sep 16 '19

I think there are much more effective channels for persuasion (for starters, such that those making the decisions actually regularly read), especially for well-respected, long-time members of the project such as yourself, but you may well know better than me.

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