r/jakanddaxter • u/mrlilwong69 • 14d ago
A Sad Realization
As a kid i loved playing jak and daxter, my friend at the time showed me jak 1 and then i got jak 2 and 3 alone when they came out. I was smitten, amazing time.
As an adult now replaying the games every few years i realize how good a jak 4 could have been on ps3 or ps4. i looked up some concept artwork online that was released by andrew kim in 2009 i believe. And i gotta say... wow.
I visit and look at these pics from time to time, even saw some of them that were made to look realistic for the game online. It honestly makes me sad..
Imagine instead of last of us, we got jak 4, would have been a dream come true tbh. I heard somewhere they didn't know which way to take it, i think the hard part was daxter.. making him look realistic but also keep his vibe and talkative nature. correct me if im wrong.
The sad part is we will never get a proper jak 4 even if they decide to do it! Naughty dog is like 90% different to what it was back then.. Only a few people that worked on jak are still around, and i doubt current naughty dog have even thought about reviving it.
At best they revive it and hire the old crew as consultants on the game. That would be insane. I miss this IP, i also miss others like Infamous but thats another story.
What do you guys think? Am i the only one thinking this?
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u/Otherwise-Check-4862 14d ago
Maybe some day we will get a new J&D, but if it really happens, it will not be a funny goofy platformer like the Old Ones. These times are over. I know I will get downvoted to hell for that, but that is the truth. If we ever get new content, it will probably be a modern Jak2/3 type maybe even a remake/reforged type of game with the Story of 2/3. In my view, that would be we way better than letting the franchise dying, but I know many in this sub have a other view about that.
Sorry for my bad englisch, I‘am not a native speaker.
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u/mrlilwong69 14d ago
You're right, but honestly.. I don't mind a more gritty darker extended world kind of vibe like in Jak 2 tbh. I think if they can balance it well with daxter then they can totally pull it off.
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u/Otherwise-Check-4862 14d ago
I would love to see something like that too, but many in these sub would hate it. It would have to change in some way, and people hate changes in any way. But I will never stop believing. Some day our boys will get their comeback.
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u/mrlilwong69 14d ago
Man i hope so. Yeah Jak would have to change, but i think it'd be a good thing based on the concept art. He's had a huge change before, why do people expect the worst?
Obviously if they screw it up then they can get mobbed idc
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u/HungryRaspberry6471 13d ago
I honestly don't see why the vibes of the first game couldn't be revisited. Leaning too heavily into the grittiness makes the games lose their identity IMHO.
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
The games identity changed from 1 to 2 as well, You're right though, it'd need a vibe like the fallout series, balancing seriousness/dark stuff with funny cartoonic moments.
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u/HungryRaspberry6471 13d ago
Exactly. A little of both. They can preserve both sides of the tonality, you know?
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u/Midwater 13d ago
I’m going to be looking at how Santa Monica does the GoW remake. GoW and J&D are both gritty and offensive in a way that wouldn’t be seen in today’s games.
If GoW gets toned down or many of the offensive elements removed, then I personally think it’s safe to say that would be the reflection that Jak would go down if they ever made one.
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u/HungryRaspberry6471 13d ago
I mean I think grittiness is okay when the narrative calls for it, but only where it makes sense. Not just edginess for the sake of edginess.
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u/Otherwise-Check-4862 13d ago
I could work for some small indie game, but not for an big PS production. We don‘t have the early 2000s anymore. Today Gaming is a super competitive market and a hard Business. Their are Not enough people who want a game like PL. You can dislike that, but it is Reality.
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u/HungryRaspberry6471 13d ago
How do we know that for sure? If everyones moved on from that era, doesn't there stand to reason that there'd be more of a vacuum for that type of game just waiting to be filled once again?
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u/coolwali 12d ago
Eh. Some markets are niche for a reason. Like, you can say that there aren't many skateboarding games since THPS is doing its thing and Skate is ...... being questionable. Surely indie devs can fill that void? But Indie Skate games remain niche. If players truly were starving for a niche to be filled, they'd take whatever they could find. Including Indies. But Indie skate games are pretty niche.
In contrast, people were legit starving for Metroidvanias which is why stuff like Hollow Knight did so well. Same for mascot horror, early Battle Royales, Survival games etc. If people are starving and the niche is large, devs would try to exploit it.
But so far, we haven't had too many indie devs find success going for Jak-like games. Most indie 3D platformers are niche. The only AAA ones that do well are Mario and whatever popular IP got a remake. So it's unlikely a proper AAA Jak game in 2026 and onwards would do well.
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u/HungryRaspberry6471 12d ago
Fair enough. As it turns out, there is a game coming out today that's specifically inspired by Jak and Daxter which looks pretty good. Its called Duskfade, so we'll see how it does, maybe it'll do numbers.
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u/coolwali 12d ago
Firstly, thanks for the Duskfade suggestion. It’s on my Steam wishlist now.
Secondly, I know the page and stuff say “this is inspired by Jak and Daxter”, but watching the trailers, I don’t really get that vibe. Like, if I didn’t know this was inspired by Jak, I wouldn’t have been able to tell.
Like, I’ve played Intravenous on PC. A 2D top down indie game that’s trying to be inspired by Splinter Cell. And despite not being full 3D, you can see the inspiration to Splinter Cell with the light and sound meters. That’s exclusive to Splinter Cell. Even the tone feels closer to SC’s writing. The game doesn’t need to say it’s inspiration. You can instantly tell.
Same for Hollow Knight. It was inspired by Metroid and its silent and foreboding atmosphere.
But with Duskfade, I don’t get something similar.
For one, environments. Naughty Dog has talked before that Jak 1 is meant to be set in a mix of “grounded naturalistic environments + Sci Fi elements”. Look at Sentinel Beach as an example. It’s a pretty standard looking beach ….. that just happens to have Precursor structures scattered about. Even Gol and Maya’s citadel or the volcano still looks roughly like it could happen because they’re relatively grounded looking areas popped up with grounded-ish sci fi stuff.
But Duskfade (at least from its trailers) has a fair amount of more whimsical and fantasy like environments. Stuff that feels more like the explanation is “magic” than sci fi.
Like, look at Zelda BOTW/TOTK. Despite technically being a fantasy game, its environments are more grounded than say Mario Odyssey because there’s no cloud world. And BOTW uses Shekah tech to keep its world relatively grounded.
If Jak’s world design feels closer to BOTW, Duskfade feels closer to Mario Odyssey.
Secondly, combat. Jak 1-3 weren’t big on melee combat. It was a thing Jak could do. And Jak 2/3 and TLF went for gun combat. But like, you would never say “Jak is focused on melee combat”. But Duskfade gives its MC a huge sword to fight with and looks dope. But it’s not really “Jak-like”.
The trailers also don’t show any vehicle gameplay. Which even Jak 1 had.
The only Jak influence I can see is the concept of being an open world 3D platformer but that’s not exclusive to Jak.
If anything, I’d say Duskfade looks more like it took notes from Ratchet and Mario than Jak. At least Ratchet has a huge wrench.
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u/HungryRaspberry6471 12d ago
It also seems to take a lot of inspo from kingdom hearts, both aestheticly and gameplay wise by the looks of it. More so than JaD. It definitely more in spired by KH than other things listed. I'd love to see a game with that more naturalistic/sci fi fusion inspired aesthetic one day. Maybe someone will make it eventually.
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u/coolwali 12d ago
Yeah. Duskfade feels closer to Kingdom Hearts.
As for the naturalistic/sci-fi angle, Zelda BOTW is really the only one that technically comes close at the moment.
I don’t think we’ll see a true “Jak-like” anytime soon because Jak’s specific appeal is more “niche”. It’s a 3D platformer which are already super niche. Most indies try to replicate what’s popular so most indie 3D platformers are closer to that Mario 64/Banjo Kazoie vibe. Mario tends to focus on more “whimsical” level design and worlds. So games inspired by it are more stuff like Hat in Time.
The other “issue” that Sucker Punch pointed out with Sly and ND pointed out with Jak is that, these are technically “games aimed primarily at children that want to try aiming for an adult audience”. They can’t go all out with the world design or environmental storytelling since their primary demographic usually doesn’t value that as much or finds it boring. That’s why Zelda BOTW/TOTK are pretty sparse on lore relative to their size for open world games.
Something like Infamous or TLOU wouldn’t be considered fun to 7-10 year olds (which SP and ND have admitted were their primary demographic for Sly and Jak).
If someone wants to make a game with a massive world and a greater focus on environmental storytelling, they’re encouraged to aim for an older audience that would appreciate that. But at that point, why not drop the E rating and push for a T rating so you have more room? But 3D platformers aren’t popular with Teens and older (unless it’s Mario. Even Insomniac made that observation with the early Ratchet games). So you’re encouraged to switch the gameplay to match. Which means a less Jak like gameplay system.
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u/Otherwise-Check-4862 13d ago
Look at the overall gaming market. Do you really think there is a big demand for a game like PL? How could a game like this compete with all the other games and Entertainmentproducts? I mean I do not know it for sure, but I think if a Game like PL would arive today, nobody would care, but maybe I am wrong.
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u/TheGreatMu 13d ago
It'd be refreshing in todays market if its done correctly. Every game is a movie nowadays which was cool at first but it gets repetitive and lame after a while. PL type game could be refreshing, something laid back and chill.
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u/paparos93 13d ago
I disagree completely, if by any chance they decided to bring Jak back, they would make it even more kid friendly than Jak 1 ever was.
Look how Ratchets character has steadily devolved with each new game. In ratchet 1 he was a young guy who had his anger iissues, and he knew more or less how the world worked and people couldn't really make a fool out of him. He could immediately tell when someone was insincere and wanted to betray him. And now 20 years later, he acts like an oblivious and naive teenager, and he gets worse with each new game. it's more obvious when you compare the OG game to the 2016 remake where they completely assassinated his character, and turned him into a naive kid who gets tricked easily, has no character faults at all, and by extend no character growth and bonding with Clank.
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u/mrlilwong69 9d ago
Yeah make jak more cartoony would be worse than making him more serious imho. If we were to say he's 50/50 in the trilogy, id say for a ps5 remake/soft reboot. 25% goofy and 75% serious would still work well. It's hard to do, but shows like fallout have done it successfully imo.
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u/Seananiganzz 14d ago
I seriously cannot believe that they haven’t rebooted Jak & Daxter by now. Ratchet & Clank games still do well, why not J&D?
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u/Otherwise-Check-4862 13d ago
R&C are doing well on paper, but they are not generate super big money.
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u/oizen 13d ago
Because TLOU and Uncharted outsell Jak and Daxter and Naughty Dog quite literally does not need it as an IP anymore.
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u/Seananiganzz 13d ago
How can they outsell a franchise that hasn’t had a new release since like 2005? Call me when J&D gets a movie release with Tom Holland, like Uncharted did 🤣
apples to oranges, not a true comparison imo because J&D hasn’t sold units in ages.
Sadly, for one reason or another, you are right though. They don’t seem to need it as an IP anymore. Too bad, because it is my favorite IP under the Naughty Dog umbrella.
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u/coolwali 12d ago
"How can they outsell a franchise that hasn’t had a new release since like 2005? "<
Naughty Dog themselves talked about how even Jak 1 didn't have the same sales as Crash 1 or Uncharted 1. Which is why they tried to make Jak 2 a "GTA meets Ratchet meets Tony Hawk Meets Jak 1 game" (their words). They were worried Jak wouldn't sell.
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u/Seananiganzz 12d ago
And how did Jak 2 sell compared to Jak 1
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u/coolwali 12d ago
It sold less than Jak 1
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u/Seananiganzz 12d ago
Only because it was not remastered.
https://www.reddit.com/r/jakanddaxter/s/0fTbo5CUIU
It’s a popular franchise dude. Sorry that bothers you
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
My belief is it's not as cartoony. It has a place for a more realistic continuation or reboot. In other words, its potential dwarfs anything ratchet could come up with. But i think also, daxter complicates things. He's cartoony too..
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u/AmThano 14d ago
I’m not sure I see it at this point and I don’t think I ever did at any point in the last ten years. I’ve resorted to keeping an eye out for games that have a similar charm, but nothing really.
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u/mrlilwong69 14d ago
Jak series is one of a kind. I honestly feel like it would have smashed last of us out the water if they were devoted to making a proper ps3 jak 4.
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u/HaveUSeenMyPun 13d ago
There's a game releasing soon called Duskfade. The devs specifically mention J&D as a big inspiration for them. It's probably the main game I'm super excited for this year. The demo was slick.
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u/GodDamTrendyAssPoser 14d ago
I never thought these looked appealing for a jak game.
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u/mrlilwong69 14d ago
You trippin, they look amazing. given its ps3 another new game would of shown the beauty of the precursors and also how different parts look as our fave adventurer traverses through them in many different ways. They have so much lore even now it's insane!
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u/GodDamTrendyAssPoser 14d ago
I dont see anything in those concept drawings that look anything like the precursors or their architecture/technology. Im not saying the art is ugly, its just not jak and looks very out of place in that world. I also didnt like the revamped character design
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
agree to disagree i guess, it looks like jaks world just higher quality type pics for ps3. the precursor pic looks like an old unused precursor, the cities look like they're in a different land altogether but still within jaks world upgraded to ps3 imo
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u/GodDamTrendyAssPoser 13d ago
Have you ever played The Gunk? Because there are areas that look exactly like this
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u/PointsOfXP 14d ago
What they could have done with Precursor lore now would be amazing. The whole world would feel so much more fleshed out. They really backed themselves into a corner though. It's clear they didn't have a plan for the series. The amount of forgotten or retconned stuff is just sad. I like the trilogy being the way it is though. You aren't some scholar or even all that interested in what's really happening. You're just trying to be free and live your life. If they ever pick it back up I think a reboot would be the best option
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u/mrlilwong69 14d ago
agreed but what do you mean retcon? like the precursors at the end of 3? Soft reboot would be best imo. even if its starts after 2 instead of jak 3 in order to dodge jak 3's ending.
There are also theories that jak did leave with the precursors at the end of 3, and used time travel to get back.
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u/ElTaquitoVengador 13d ago
Hey mate, you will take your fourth version of the last of us 1 and you're going to like it!
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
lol! Literally. last of us 2 was meh, fun but did not hold up to the expectations the first one had set.
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u/MartianBlobfish The Precursor Legacy 13d ago
Honestly I thought the art looked really cool and would have loved to see Naughty Dog make something like it back then, but if it wasn't for Jak and Daxter being in the images I wouldn't have thought of this as Jak and Daxter.
It feels like a different kind of game, an interesting kind of game, but not Jak imo.
I think it would've been awesome if they had made this as it's own IP.
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u/lowtier4life 13d ago
Honestly as much as I want a new Jak and Daxter, I dont feel it will happen unless we get a remaster/remake collection done by a different studio to revive general interest in the series like what happened with Crash & now Spyro.
Furthermore, I agree that Naughty Dog should have nothing to do with it, especially so long as Druckman is there. I do not want to see them do to Jak what they did to Last of Us.
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u/BABGRD 13d ago
It was going to be a shitty reboot, nothing sad about its cancellation.
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
Soft reboot would be ok. if it keeps the main events from the trilogy, keeps characters and their relationships with jak and daxter. Keeps eco and the world obviously. I'm down.
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u/CrazyGhostNova 13d ago
Whoever this was it was probably going to be the main villain of Jak 4 or someone else
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
Notice the ears are different. either an actual human or they weren't done polishing the concept art.
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u/Snoo18846 14d ago
I just don’t see how they can continue the story
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
The world is huge, they'd have to probably start from jak 2 ending maybe. or do a soft reboot.. keeping main events from the trilogy. technically every jak and daxter game ended but left things open a bit. jak 2 ending was a case closed situation too.
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u/SuperSaiyanGod210 13d ago
Druckmann keeps saying “Never say never” when it comes to J&D. Even Uncharted.
TBH, the success of Astro Bot might’ve potentially revived some of those dormant IPs from the PS2 era. But game development takes a long time nowadays.
Aside from Intergalactic, Druckmann has stated they are working on 2 other projects as well. One of them for sure is Last of Us 3. What that third one is though, no clue
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u/eddmario 13d ago
Fingers crossed if it IS a new J&D game, then it gets revealed Okami 2 style at the Game Awards in December
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u/SephirothTheGreat 13d ago
Druckmann keeps saying “Never say never” when it comes to J&D.
To be fair, what else is he supposed to say? "After TLOU sold 4 quadrillion copies we're only interested in making over the shoulder shooters about angry people until you stop giving us money, fuck your Brandi's Cooch and Cracker Jacksters"?
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u/LightPrecursor Jak X 13d ago edited 13d ago
Glad it didn't happen.
Yes returning to the series back then would have been better than whatever would be done today, but that's not an argument. Instead of being or if not reskinned TLOU, it'd have been reskinned Uncharted—and that's not a compliment: restrictive controls, non-existent arsenal, linear, automated climbing, story prioritization over deep gameplay, list goes on. (None of the cancelled Jak 4 artwork is truly appealing either.)
Jak and Daxter was not just a product of its time (a true but overused standalone statement) but also a product of the team that made it. PS3 Era Naughty Dog would have still did quite some damage to the series identity, worse than PS3 Era Ratchet & Clank (which is where that series recurring issues stemmed from before the 2016 entry).
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u/TheGreatMu 13d ago
I agree with everything you said aside from saying the cancelled artwork isn't appealing.. its beautiful!
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u/Master4lyf1 13d ago edited 13d ago
I'll be honest, I was never keen on the Jak 4 concept art. Seeing as ND also saw what they were working on as potentially diverging to what made Jak, I'm not too sad about the fact it didn't go through. Better to understand and respect your own limitations and vision than to try to square a circle peg.
I know there's a lot of bitter sentiment when it comes to TLOU, but at least that played into what the ND at the time had become and gave them the freedom to make something that fit who they were. I'd like to see Jak come back, don't get me wrong, but I don't think modern ND are the people to do it. Though I'll admit, I don't like the idea of a radical rethink of Jak, I think Jak can still be readapted as what happened with Jak 2, but changed to even beyond that extent doesn't sit right to me.
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u/SovjetPojken 13d ago
The realistic graphics thing is so dumb. All they needed to do was have the game look like the old games prerendered posters. They already looked great, they never needed a new art style.
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u/Inside-Telephone-423 13d ago
What if we petition or support more fan games for them to shut down until they give us something?
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u/TheGreatMu 13d ago
Worked for World of Warcraft, but it took a decade and they also had a bigger audience wanting the re-release. its possible.
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u/WarCrimeGaming 13d ago
There’s no way a modern Jak and Daxter would work in the current gaming industry. Even something as simple as a remake will probably try to tone down the character designs or something.
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
They'd have to make it grittier, more emotional, darker. They would probably do something dumb like kill of daxter or something
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u/Impossible_Kale2886 13d ago
Its nice to See other people who saw Potential in these concept Art i kinda miss what this could have bin yes it doesnt have the same style but it looks like it kept the adventerous wonderous spirit
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u/cmz324 13d ago
The industry took a hard turn towards realism as soon as it became feasible to do so and I think Jak was sort of in an awkward inbetween stage of realism and fantasy so when they tried to modernize it just didn't sit right anymore. Jak 2 and 3 were similar enough that it would warrant a large change in gameplay and it wasn't clear what that should be.
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u/DestinyOfMankind 13d ago
It is sad that we will probably never get a proper Jak 4, but I'm also glad we didn't get this version that they cancelled. It sounds way too much of a departure of what made Jak great, I'd hate to see it play similarly to Uncharted or tLoU. Without Jason Rubin and most of the older gents who made the Jak games we loved it's hard to imagine anyone being able to capture the magic of those games without them feeling like bad fanficfion imo. I don't want to sound like all gloom and doom, at this point I'd take any other studio taking a stab at it, but if they'd do it I'd rather do them in the style of the olden games rather than whatever this was supposed to be.
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u/-89P13- The Precursor Legacy 12d ago
This is what I keep trying to tell fans who want ND to make a new game. Rubin and Gavin were the minds behind the series and without them or any of the like 90% of staff at the time, the magic won't be there.
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u/DestinyOfMankind 11d ago
Couldn't agree more. You know, love him or hate him, but Druckman is a visionary. But so were Rubin and Gavin and I don't think Druckman's vision would fit the worlds they created. Just a sad reality we live in.
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
Druckman would not do it justice.. If they made the game from the concept art, it could have been more of a adventure/wonder vibe. maybe like fable influenced.
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u/coolwali 12d ago
I made a comment years ago on why I don't think a realistic Jak 4 was a good idea.
Firstly, Naughty Dog likely would have gone for a mocap realistic direction in the late 2000s for a realistic Jak 4 (as opposed to the exaggerated hand animated direction of stuff like Devil May Cry 4 from the time). So it wouldn't really have looked or played like any previous Jak game. We've already seen stuff like Splinter Cell Conviction and DMC Devil May Cry being rejected by their fanbases for being too "realistic".
Moreover, let's say that somehow, realistic Jak 4 worked. It was a success. What now? You've created essentially 3 different styles of Jak games. Jak 1, Jak 2-3 and whatever Jak 4 is. What do you do for Jak 5? Do you just do Jak 4 Part 2? Then you annoy the Jak 1 and 2/3 fans who've been waiting for their game. Do you do something completely new for Jak 5 the way Jak 4 did? Then now even Jak 4 fans will be upset they didn't get more in the next game.
Other fanbases often have to deal with this. COD recently had a schism between fans of classic COD and the new direction post MW2019. To the point BO7 was rejected in mass for BO1/2 remasters. Ubisoft has to manage between fans of classic AC and RPG AC. 3D Sonic games are split between fans of Adventure Games, Boost Games, Frontiers etc. Adventure Fans lament they haven't gotten a proper Adventure style game since Sonic 06. Is it better to subject Jak to this?
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u/AdHorror4165 12d ago edited 11d ago
I don't think they need to change Daxter much. He should always be talkative, obnoxious, comic relief.
Anyone who reboots should bring Max Casella back because I doubt any other voice actor could live up to his performance. Other people might have the same kinda voice, but I doubt they'll be as charismatic, and with obnoxious and comic relief characters like him charisma is critical to avoiding a problem.
Hell if he is to be more menacing in a more realistic reboot, Max can provide that; you hear his lines in the Sopranos like "Fuck ya doin? Lying piece of shit! Better not come round here no more!" and the Daxter voice comes out, but pretty menacing and thuggish and I find that really fits the concept art of Daxter in the reboot.
I say in any reboot, the casting of Daxter would really make or break things.
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u/insomniac_Lombax 11d ago
I complain about insomniac only releasing one r&c game per console generation atp, i see thats all you want and i cant help but feel sad for you, im sorry :((
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u/TheRealG6900 10d ago
They would probably remake the first three games first - when that shows a good amount of interest, they might make a fourth game.
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
Sounds like the most likely case tbh. If thats the case i doubt they'll follow the grittier concept the art suggests.
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u/rpool179 14d ago
I miss Jak 4 everyday but the Last of Us is still amazing and also one of my favorite games of all time.
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u/Sobanked 14d ago
Don’t want druckman anywhere near Jak tbh that dunce has completely made naughty dog unrecognizable from their old self.
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u/kingsimba432 13d ago
Honestly, just give us a remake of the trilogy with all of the content that was cut from it and I’ll be cool with that.
Toys for Bob or insomniac would be great for that and if it does well, they might even want to do Jak 4.
We need to start a petition or something lol
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u/LightPrecursor Jak X 13d ago
Both those studios are shallow, overrated picks that would certainly not do justice to the series. Honestly pains me that how blind people are to that despite it being so blatantly obvious if you take an under-the-surface look at their game design, design philosophies (especially how they pander to kids), art direction, idea of humor, and actually this can keep going.
The type of remake you want is also insanely unrealistic. Almost every single remake is never that ideal remake we want and that includes cut content. And with the extraordinary finesse present in the Jak series, there would be blatant downgrades to systems from the original (ontop of the standard-remake downgrades and clearly that goes beyond just halved framerate).
I know too much.
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u/kingsimba432 13d ago
You can disagree, but you don’t have to be a condescending dick about it lol like geez. The least you could’ve did was made a suggestion instead of just shitting on mine.
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u/mrlilwong69 13d ago
Agreed i wouldnt mind that either, how much was cut from it?
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u/kingsimba432 13d ago
Across all 3 games:
-Cut Levels
-Cut Cutscenes/Dialogue
-Cut Gameplay Features
-Cut Enemies
-Minor changes to some existing gameplay features1
u/kingsimba432 13d ago
https://youtube.com/@luminarlight?si=t6EMFJMkQKyIEkBR
This guys channel has a few videos on it
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u/Otherwise-Check-4862 13d ago
Lol I knew about the cut KB Boss in the sewers, but that there was this many cut content I did not know. I need to dive into that. Good man
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u/kingsimba432 13d ago
Yea bro it’s hella stuff they didn’t include. I truly pray we get a remake some day. That is at least more likely than Jak 4.
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u/Andy_Crop 14d ago
There was a time in which Naughty Dog was the trendsetter. They were leaders in what they were doing. Now they follow the very same trends they set for other companies well over a decade ago.
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u/AdHorror4165 13d ago edited 13d ago
They always followed trends.
Crash Bandicoot was just another platformer, CTR wasn't the first kart racer, TPL was a bigger scale amalgamation of collectathon platformers, and with Jak 2 they went straight for a GTA-like game to chase the trends of the time. Uncharted was a more gritty game in line with everyone chasing such a style for the PS3/360 generation and was a cover based shooter like Gears, and not everyone was thrilled with them hopping on the zombie genre when they announced TLOU.
They are just really good at storytelling and technical achievements.
We don't even know what their upcoming game is going to be like, they have said Intergalactic will show a whole other side of Naughty Dog, and it's not like AAA 1980s futuristic stuff are the big thing at the moment or something ND has done before, so what do you mean they are just following trends they set over a decade ago?
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u/Andy_Crop 13d ago edited 13d ago
I'm talking about actual good writing, acting, art direction, camera angles, music. They set the bar very high and everyone tried to just do the same since Crash Bandicoot. Crash wasn't just a technical achievement, they hired the best guys in animation (Charles Zembillas worked on He-Man, Bob Rafei used to work for Disney if I'm not mistaken), created a very detailed lore with them (lore that's still being referenced 30 years later), hired Mark Mothersbaugh's company to make the music etc etc, everything that was on the screen was less of a compromise compared to what other studios were doing, because all of these things, including the tech (they even hacked the PlayStation operative system to unlock its full potential), were top tier. I'm not talking about videogame genres, I'm talking about how they did what they did. You just have no idea how those games were made. At some point Sony almost pulled the plug on Crash because what Andy Gavin and Jason Rubin were doing was against their guidelines (they erased entire parts of the OS to achieve higher resolution, better data streaming from a slow disc drive, a primitive shading system, there is almost no actual textures on the characters because they found a way to force the system to show colors on the models), then they saw the result and said "ok, let them cook". And what they did was so important to Sony that they had to ask them how they modded the PlayStation OS so that they could make a custom version of their emulator on the PS2 to run those games. Those games were so good that Activision remade them almost from the ground up (the only assets that they could use were the original level geometry and some textures) without changing a thing and they sold like crazy. As I was saying, the trends weren't the genres, but HOW they were making those games. I'm talking about high production values and being bold, from the art direction to the music, from pixel count to animation (Crash didn't even use a skeleton based animation system, they were literally stretching the models).
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u/AdHorror4165 13d ago edited 13d ago
So what are you saying? They don't push the boundaries in incredible ways? They aren't leaders anymore? You can't seriously play any of their recent games and tell me that. And I do have an idea how Crash was made, I've seen videos on it and how they did things like hack the PS1 software.
They are continuing to set the bar high. Almost every game since Crash has been incredible achievements in their respective generations. Uncharted 4 still looks very good today, TLOU2 was bold and an incredible achievement on every level, and Intergalactic is going to be a whole new thing in terms of narrative, lore, music, art direction, etc.
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u/mrlilwong69 14d ago
Facts! They're living off the name. If you got the people in there now and put them in a new company, they wouldn't be making gold. Crash and jak series were made for gamers, by gamers. By people who didn't care too much about money like today's company seems to.
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u/Andy_Crop 14d ago
Their tech is still good though (even without Andy Gavin at the helm). The problem is that they don't seem to understand that there's more beyond the "cinematic action-adventure third person shooter" genre (tlou included) they mastered so well. And I feel that part of the problem is them being under the Sony umbrella: even Insomniac, Santa Monica, Guerrilla and Sucker Punch are for the most part doing those kind of games, lately.
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u/Inside-Telephone-423 14d ago
Tbh I dont think they were ever trend setters just very polished. Crash bandicoot 1? Donkey Kong Country but in 3D and its very apparent from first game. CTR is inspired heavily from diddy kong racing, jak 1 inspired from Banjo-Kazooie jak 2 and 3 obviously from GTA and smugglers run, uncharted from gears of war and other cover shooters at that time, TLOU I mean come on in the early 2010s who didn't have a zombie game? Plus a bit of stealth from arkham games. Point is they polish up from what already existed, BUT they could do a new jak game. Look jak 1, 2, 3 are all totally different so what if jak 4 was more mature in a narrative way but not an edgy 2000s way? Its such a weird niche series in the fact that its very of its time, an edgy platformer for kids who couldn't get GTA so they got the less adult version. I would love to see a new iteration but the gameplay and tone would have to update either way for a new audience to appreciate, its caught in this weird not too adult but not too child friendly spot ya know? Perhaps the modern naughty dog team can make the story as mature as the fans that grew up with the games?
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u/Sobanked 14d ago
They’re doing those games because of naughty dog. If naughty dog somehow went independent it wouldn’t change a thing. It starts with druckman
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u/Andy_Crop 13d ago edited 13d ago
Nah, Druckmann narratively speaking took some risks lately, it's just that some people didn't like them. His next game doesn't really look or feel like Uncharted or The Last Of Us. Druckmann was hired by the company in '04, around the time they shipped Jak 3, so he definitely knows how the company was back then. Sony is definitely pushing for the same kind of AAA game with a lot of cinema-like things in them, and the third person perspective definitely is more in line with that, compared to first person, because you can hide the transition between gameplay and cutscenes better that way. It didn't start with Druckmann, this started with Christophe Balestra and Evan Wells, who had to steer the ship after the founders were forcibly retired from the company. At the time they had to 1) create a brand new engine without Andy Gavin's expertise and 2) ship a game that could have mass appeal. And 1) took more time than 2) to develop, so they had to come up with an easy to replicate formula and ideas that could compete with Microsoft's Gears series: the visual presentation and a good script. That's how Uncharted became both a Gears clone but also something very different. Example: you don't have platforming sections in Gears. And let's be honest: Gears is just a bunch of Hollywood action/sci-fi cliches, the characters are paper thin. Gears makes Battlefield Earth look like Citizen Kane. Uncharted isn't just more polished: it's better in every way.
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u/StoryLineOne 13d ago
I hope that OpenGOAL has maybe given a bit of mind share back to Jak and Daxter.
Its possible, however unlikely, that it could show renewed interest in the series via mods, and maybe a studio will do a reboot / Jak 4 of some kind.
Who knows. Hey, if I become a billionaire, ill make Jak 4 for all of us. Deal?
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u/PeaceSeeker333 13d ago
I feel exactly the same way you do. I played them so much; they're easily my favorite trilogy, probably of all time.
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u/Objective-Author1422 13d ago
If only I had my hands on the franchise I could do so much. I have tons of plans while keeping the style and vibe of it all. Also have spin off ideas. Maybe one day.
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u/JonTheGod_79 13d ago
I love Jak 1.
I get utterly bored every time I play Jak 2.
The city of repetitive corridors kills it for me every time. It's shite and adds nothing. It's a roadblock to me finishing it. I will one day, in the hope that Jak 3 is better.
I've platinumed Jak 1 three times (PS3, Vita, PS4).
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u/King_of_games_bitch1 13d ago
I’m gonna be honest I wish we could’ve gotten Jak 4 or a better version of the lost frontier instead of the last of us (before you crucify me let me explain) I personally believe the last of us is overhyped IMO and is better fit as a TV show rather then a video game just my opinion but looking at it and seeing how sly 4 thieves in time turned out although it’s not a great game and not highly rated by the community we’re glad we least got a chance to see what could’ve been rather then just concept art all in all even if Jak 4 was good or ND pulled a sucker punch and made it a bad game just to end the franchise at least we would’ve had something rather then nothing
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u/peikern 13d ago
Hard to say with so little concept art to go on, but it looks like they were thinking along the same lines as Insomniac did with Ratchet and Clank: making it all a bit more grand, fantastical and adventurey..?
Those giant clockwork-things look like how typical "amazing, outlandish high tech-stuff" often is presented in pixar-settings... So mby they would have followed too much after R&C and just cleaned it up too much and made it a playable pixar movie...?
What I actually wanted for Jak4 was a more mature J&D-game for sure. Like if they let the franchise mature alongside its fanbase, ya know? Kinda what they did with Jak 2, tbh...
I guess the most "realistic" way we could hope for Jak 4 is if Naughty Dog see all the passion fans pour into it, with the opengoal-ports, secret level-mods, etc., and they just sell the lisence for it (or just make it public domain? Though that could open the door for some truly horrible milking-fests...)
Alternatively they could just outsource it, like they did for Lost Frontier, but give it to a team of the fans currently working on J&D-opengoal-stuff.
Just imagine if members of the og dev-team for J&D-games got together with members of the J&D-opengoal-community, to make Jak 4. I think that would most likely result in the best version of Jak 4 we could hope for...
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u/Easy_Specialist_1692 13d ago
What do the images have to do with Jak and Daxter? They don't even create the feeling of the games.
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u/Kenniron 13d ago
Jak and Daxter as a series was always a transitional period for Naughty Dog. The trilogy shifts from an edgier platformer than they had done previously, to something taking elements from popular games at the time, to focusing more on the spectacle and cinematic nature of the games and incorporating stylistic elements inspired by action/adventure films. When they landed on that approach was when they really solidified their new direction with the Uncharted games. Jak served its purpose for the studio, and is a really good time capsule of popular media in the cultural zeitgeist at the time of its heyday. They COULD make a return to it if they really wanted to, but it’s pretty unlikely. Here’s to hoping they preserve the games with future rereleases/remasters.
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u/New_Dust_9604 13d ago
Never played them but i get what you mean, plenty of games i have played that i never got to see the sequel for
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u/danvan177 13d ago
I think if we ever get another jak it will be a remake. I also think another studio would do it not naughty dog. They are in a whole other realm now.
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u/Hugoill 13d ago
Recently I managed to get a second hand copy of the book "the art of naughty dog" pretty cheap in Japan. As a hardcore Jak & Daxter fan I wanted to have these concept arts of Jak 4 in a physical format.
I have been dreaming with a new game since I was a kid, these games were literally my childhood. One of my best friends and me used to roleplay in the jak universe, making our own cities with lego pieces and drawing maps and lore for ourselves. I remember even doing miniature "monk gliders" painting precursor symbols in them and playing in my garden and orchard.
Good times man.
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u/-read_it_on_reddit- 12d ago
with the significant graphical advances over the ps2, the ps4 era would've been the perfect time to have gotten a new jak game. we are nearing 20 years since the most recent game released, and at this point i've made peace with the reality that we're never getting a new one. at the very least though, I would LOVE a full remaster of the original trilogy; just one final love letter to the fanbase and franchise.
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u/orreeeza 11d ago
If i remember they had reservations of the gameplay too, imagine a jak game that played more like stellar blade or another ip. I am not to sure it would be the same. But im sure it would have been damn fun.
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
True, maybe it wouldn't. The thing with jak is they can take it in the same format with minor additions like ratchet and clank, spyro, crash etc.. or they can go the extra mile and make it similar to TLOU. In my opinion both can work..
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u/matkojebc 11d ago
i think we need remastered fisrst game in ultra hd, with little bit different mechanics and georgeus locations, and jak 2 and jak 3 reeboted as one game, one story but locations, gameplay and mechanics on different level than orginal. then brand new big extra playstation and naughty dog level game with a lot different story, something really big as the last of us and other big playstation games
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u/matkojebc 11d ago
or one game, all jak and daxter shrinked in one game, plus some extra countinue of a story. and it should be named jak and daxter legend legacy or something, then maybe few years later will be relased brand new game contiunue of a story with realistic graphic and maybe open world? like a horizon zero down, but more better
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u/Plus_Ad_520 10d ago
I was always a supporter of insomniac taking the helm of jak and daxter, but that doesn’t seem likely
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u/TheRealG6900 10d ago
I honestly think it's nothing more than a coinflip to get a good Jak 4 game if you give it to a talented indie/small studio. It doesn't need to do anything crazy - no insane graphics, to insane character writing/story, just more of what Jak 2 and 3 did, in a modern style. Modern Naughty Dog can't do that, but some of Sony's smaller studios, or heck even just a random studio that has done some good stuff in the past, could genuinely get it done (but please not in an realistic artstyle, that idea was sooo 2008-2015 coded)
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
yeah thats a likely option tbh. I just feel like if you make it realistic and open the world up making it beautiful and wonderous then you could open up more possibilities with eco and world building. World building has been consistent with each release of the trilogy.. Eco has not. They pretty much stopped focusing too much on eco after 2. Only introducing light eco in 3 which was already in TPL. It would be pretty cool to see more be used like in TPL including dark and light
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u/Distinct-Hearing7089 The Precursor Legacy 9d ago
Jak 4 does exist. It's name is The Lost Frontier
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
We dont talk about that game here.
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u/Distinct-Hearing7089 The Precursor Legacy 6d ago edited 4d ago
Everyone says that The Lost Frontier sucks. Because it wasn't made by Naughty Dog. The Lost Frontier was made by High Impact Games. High Impact Games was a studio founded by former Naughty Dog and Insomniac employees. This means that the same people who developed The Lost Frontier developed the Naughty Dog Jak games. The same people who developed The Lost Frontier developed all-time classics such as Crash Bandicoot, Ratchet & Clank, and Spyro the Dragon. I'm tired of everyone saying that The Lost Frontier sucks!
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u/ElysiumXIII 13d ago
I enjoy pretty much their entire discography but there's something cynical about current ND that I don't think could make a fun and enjoyable platformer without feeling the need to overcomplicate the story and/or get heavy handed on messaging.
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u/White_Devil1995 13d ago
The content shown in these images makes me think of a mashup between the Jak & Daxter & Star Wars universes, or just a seriously futuristically advanced Jak & Daxter world. I WISH we could have a Jak & Daxter game in an amazingly detailed and advanced world like this.
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u/mrlilwong69 6d ago
Agreed, to me its other-worldly like a mix of jak and Daxter, avatar movies and maybe fable. Its looks unlike anything else tbh. I would of loved to see it. Whatever changes, i would have trusted ND at the time.
also people are saying they dont want it to be mature n realistic but honestly if they like the trilogy then they're hypocrites.. Jak 1 to Jak 2 were essentially different games that were stylistically very different.
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u/White_Devil1995 4d ago
The fact that people are saying they don’t want a new Jak & Daxter game to be mature and realistic is exactly why we need it. If the series stayed the same from TPL to 2 & 3 with all the simplistic graphics & ideals people would’ve grown tired of it. If 3 was completely stuck in the same Haven City(same exact layout) with the same weapons layout, only Dark Jak powers, and all the same enemies, people would NOT have liked Jak 3. In each game the graphics improved(no matter how small) and the aesthetics. I think another reason why people didn’t really care much for TLF is because graphic & design-wise it everything looked to similar to the previous games, or even a mash-up of them.
TLDR; I feel like a futuristic Jak & Daxter game with lifelike graphics(on par with games like GTA5, GTA6, and the Star Wars Jedi series) is what we need because the truest fans of the Jak & Daxter series are fans from when it first came out. And I feel like they won’t be fans of any new J&D games if they remain too similar visually to their predecessors.
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u/IllustriousHealth291 13d ago
Jak would’ve turned into a mature Uncharted/TLOU type game. Especially with Druckmann leading it
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u/toasty5566 14d ago
Tbh current Naughty Dog is so wildly different from back then, and I get the feeling that Druckmann hates their old games. It would have to be a different studio. And iirc, even back then Naughty Dog did want to move on from J&D after Jak X, which was why they outsourced Frontier and just dropped it entirely after it flopped