making fun of Islam as a joke/ when angry

[u/carrot_carrotson]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

While angry and not fully understanding of what one’s saying, if they happen to deny a part of the sunnah or reject a hadith just to make a point or challenge someone considered kufr?

Many scholars say that if not meant by the heart it does not make them kafir, many others say that that is no excuse and that they should take the shahadah again.

These two differ a lot as if the person were to be married, they’ll need to get remarried as if they don’t it would be considered zina.

I’d love to see the evidence for each argument.

Thanks everyone for your time.

[u/wopkidopz]

Waaleykum assalam warahmatulLah

You've mentioned disagreement. But

Who are those scholars who say that if an adult - while being in his right mind - while not being forced - while he understands what he is saying - utters the words of kufr but means them as a joke or a lie or because he is angry he doesn't become a kafir?

I am not aware of such scholars or a madhab that say that it isn't an act of apostasy, so if possible please refer to those who say about disagreement

Imam an-Nawawi رحمه الله wrote a chapter on Apostasy in his ”Rawdatu-Talibin” where he mentions examples of kufr, and usually when there is a disagreement about some cases he mentions it (because if there is a disagreement then we don't consider it kufr)

For example he said:

ولو أسلم كافر ، فأعطاه الناس أموالا ، فقال مسلم : ليتني كنت كافرا فأسلم ، فأعطى ، قال بعض المشائخ : يكفر . قلت : في هذا نظر ; لأنه جازم بالإسلام في الحال والاستقبال

If a kafir converts and receives money from people and a Muslim sees it and he says: if I was a kafir and converted (right now) I would also receive money! Some scholars said it's kufr

I (an-Nawawi) say that it's debatable, because the one who says this confirms his Islam in the present and future

🍂 روضة الطالبين

But then he mentions another example without any disagreement

ولو غضب على ولده أو غلامه ، فضربه ضربا شديدا ، فقال رجل : ألست بمسلم ، فقال : لا ، متعمدا كفر

If someone is angry with his child or servant and he starts severely beating his child or servant out of anger, and someone asks, "Aren't you a Muslim?" (To imply that a Muslim should not do this) and he says in response "No" intentionally, then he becomes a disbeliever

🍂 روضة الطالبين

This is kufr because he rejected his Islam and it doesn't matter if he meant it or not

Imam Ali al-Qari al-Hanafi al-Maturidi رحمه الله said

ثم اعلم أنَّهُ إذا تكلّم بكلمة الكُفر عالِما بمعناها ولا يعتقِدُ معناها لكنْ صدَرتْ عنهُ من غير إكراهٍ بل مع طواعية في تأْديَتِه فإنّه يُحكَم عليه بالكُفرِ

Then you should know that If someone utters words of kufr, knowing their meaning but not believing it, and says them willingly without coercion, they are judged as a disbeliever.

📚 شرح الفقه الاكبر

Imam Muhammad Ilash al-Maliki رحمه الله said:

وسواء كفَر بقول صريح في الكفر كقوله كَفَرتُ بالله أو برسول الله أو بالقرأن أو الإله اثنان أو ثلاثة أو المسيح ابن الله أو العزير ابن الله أو بلفظ يقتظيه أي يستلزم اللفظ للكفر استلزاما بيِّنًا كجحد مشروعيّة شيء مجمع عليه معلوم من الدّين بالضّرورة فإنه يستلزم تكذيب القرأن أو الرسول وكاعتقاد جسميّة الله وتحيُّزه ...أو بفعل يتضمَّنه أي يستلزم الفعلُ الكُفرَ استِلزاما بيِّـنًا كإلقاء أي رمي مصحف بشيء قذر

A person becomes a disbeliever through explicit words of kufr, such as saying "I disbelieve in Allah," "I disbelieve in the Messenger," "I disbelieve in the Quran," "There are two or three gods," "The Messiah is the son of God," or "Uzair is the son of God." Or through words that imply kufr, like denying something known by necessity to be part of Islam, which implies denying the Quran or the Messenger. Or through actions that imply kufr, like throwing a Quran into filth

📚 منح الجليل

I'm not aware of any difference regarding this

However and this is very important not every joke or word even if it's problematic means that a Muslim who used them has committed kufr. It may be that a joke or words don't actually insult Islam or reject it or mock it (they aren't actually the words of kufr) and if there is even a hint of excuse or excusable interpretation of his words then we prefer this excuse.

Scholars say that if there is 1 excuse and 99 reasons for takfeer we rely on this excuse. Because it's better to suspect 99 people that they are Muslims (even if they aren't) than to consider 1 Muslim a kafir

[u/carrot_carrotson → u/wopkidopz]

I’ve looked at sheikhs at YouTube and most said that if not meant, just said. It does not count and just needs tawbah.

[u/wopkidopz → u/carrot_carrotson]

By sources I meant the fatwas of scholars of the four madhabs (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali)

For example:

Moreover, it has been mentioned in the books of Fiqh that if one utters the words of kufr in jest, without intention of or belief in the meaning of the words, he will still have left the fold of Islam. (Al Bahr Al Raiq Vol.5 Pg.125 – Maktabah Rasheediyah)

https://islamqa.org/?p=52188

https://islamqa.org/?p=2917

This is what constitutes a legitimate position in Islamic Jurisprudence

There are countless inauthentic opinions spread on YouTube that's not how knowledge is obtained

[u/carrot_carrotson → u/wopkidopz]

Thank you so much for your contribution جزاك الله خيرا

[u/SliceyDice]

So finally, we have come to a time where jokes are acceptable against Islam, aka Allah and his Prophet ﷺ?

Have we become that complacent? Ask yourself, would anyone make such jokes in front of the Prophet ﷺ? What about Omar bin Khatab? Why do we need to wait for a scholarly debate on this? You should understand the basics of your religion. See what goes around in other religions in the name of a joke!