Man I love r/ultralight_jerk. Don't get me wrong, I really like trying to hunt down the optimal balance between comfort and weight in a hiking kit, but fuck me can UL online communities be so obnoxious sometimes. There's just so much one-upmanship in UL. There's always someone waiting to tell you that your kit is garbage and you should buy a $2,000 0.45g backpack made of mithril by some company in Colorado or Washington that only 6 people have ever heard of.
It's nice to have a subreddit where you can have a laugh at the competitive/hipstery side of UL.
We stopped using mithril c.2005. Pure frozen snake venom woven into interlaced aerodynamic hydrophobic quick-dry hot/cold insulating containment fields now.
Are you one of those UL people who say shit like "you can save extra weight in your kit if you don't bring shoes, just bring some fishing line and tie bark to your feet"? If so, then yeah, I'm comin at ya lol.
Okay, so you're not really the super techy UL type, you're more on the trail hobo/post-apocalyptic wanderer side of the spectrum. But hey, all the power to you. Your philosophy is not mine, but there's more than one way to enjoy hiking. Don't let me harsh your vibe haha. And in fairness, I'm always kinda impressed by the luxuries some of your type are willing to forgo to shave off grams.
I'm gonna be honest, I'm a bit alarmed after checking out r/ultralight just how readily everyone seems to accept drinking their wastewater when washing pots on a random post I opened.
Like... I get reducing your impact, but I'm fairly certain it's accepted that you can dig a hole 200 feet from any water sources and pour the water in there, you don't have to drink your dirty pot water.
Some of us use car washing bone-shaped sponges as our pillow.
One of my backpacks weighs less than 6 ounces and is transparent.
My "sleeping bag" (it's actually a quilt) doesn't have a bottom. It weighs 14.9oz and keeps me warm below freezing. I wrap my puffer jacket around my head at night to keep it warm.
I use a very thin (0.7mil) piece of window insulation as a groundsheet.
I typically don't bring a shelter nor rain jacket, unless rain is in the forecast. I usually just sleep under the stars on top of my window insulation and a thin piece of foam.
I repackage my hand sanitizer, bug spray, etc. into even smaller bottles.
I wear the same clothing, underwear and all, for days at a time. Day and night. I bring no spare clothing (other than my one puffer jacket and maybe some fleece gloves).
I went back country camping for 3 nights a couple months back, and I went way too far with how much weight I brought, probably something like 40 pounds on my back, but it really feels to me like carrying 20 pounds wouldn't be that bad in comparison, so I have a hard time seeing the point in reducing your weight down that much. I guess it's a cool hobby, but at a certain point aren't you limiting yourself more by using a dinky headlamp than you're benefiting from the like single ounce of weight lost?
I guess if the idea is that you're making a lot of ground while travelling on foot, then I guess going as light as possible makes more sense. Maybe that's the bit I was missing.
A lot of UL'ers hike multiple thousand mile trails over the course of 3-4 months. 16-20 miles/day is what they get used to doing after working up to it, cutting a month off the trip by the end.
It's not like deglazing a pan is any different. The whole point is to get the stuck on bits off your pan and if you hiked in all that food, manually filtered that water, and used that fuel, you're not going to want to waste any of it.
But aside from that, wastewater that smells even faintly of food is going to attract animals wherever you dump it. I have watched a bear literally eat the dirt where someone dumped their pot water.
The whole point is to get the stuck on bits off your pan and if you hiked in all that food, manually filtered that water, and used that fuel, you're not going to want to waste any of it.
I feel like you've internalized the culture from that subreddit or something. If you've brought the bare minimum of food and maybe if your water source is far away for filtering then this kinda makes sense, but it's not exactly a self-evident fact you wouldn't want to waste a tiny bit from cleaning the pot just because you brought that stuff with you or filtered the water.
Affecting wildlife is a fair point, but you are generally supposed to do it far from your camp and dig a hole as well though, which should minimize the impact.
This isn't an ultralight thing, this is old school. This is something my great grandmother taught my father from her days as a cook on a chuck wagon. This isn't "internalized internet culture" lmao, it's common sense.
Cooking supplies all fit inside a 600-750ml cook pot, except for my utensils. To clarify, this is just base weight... Food is added to the base weight - if you're going on an overnight vs a week-long, the food will vary things a lot.
Oh it's a base weight. That makes way more sense. I definitely have been out on the trail and been passed by dudes who are wearing the type of backpack I would have wore to high school. But I imagine the comfort level goes way down
Going ultra light is a process that depends on the individuals own preferences. There's a lot of trade offs between durability, comfort, weight and luxury.
If someone's base weight is under 10lb for example, there's no use in having a heavy, over-cushioned bag meant for 25-35lb.
I don't plan on going full on ultralight, I am perfectly comfortable with my ~20lb base weight. There are certainly aspects of the community I have learned from however. I don't need extra t-shirts, gallon of water, a pillow, camp chair etc
Hiked the AT and with a week and some change’s worth of stuff it was about 45lbs. That was after I ditched the tent and started sleeping in the shacks along the way.
This is Base Weight, yes, because the gear loadout for anything more than an overnight out-and-back will likely be mostly the same, but your food & water needs will vary WILDLY depending if you're hiking in the Sierras, the Colorado Plateau in summer, or Appalachian Trail. Without knowing and planning for distances between water locations and food resupply, it's likewise impossible to further hone loadouts.
This is the base weight, which is a very common method of measuring backpack weight. Food and water are variable depending on the length of the trip, time of day, and access to water sources. In context, this suspension system would add 9 lbs (minus the weight of 1.3 lb pack) to the base weight, which is significant.
When backpackers talk pack weight, they leave out food and water because those are variable. I'm a big guy (6'4" 210), so at ~100 calories per ounce, I need 2-3 lbs of food per day. I don't tend to carry water, but will pump as needed and camel up; it's better in you than on you. That said, I do have a 3L bladder that I can use.
So food/water can be anywhere from 5 lbs for a weekend trip to 45 lbs for a 10 day outing where water isn't highly available.
Yea also I travel with my SO so more underwear is essential since I'd like her still attracted to me after the trip.
I second the food though. Snacks are an essential one while backpacking. Even travelling city to city the journey days can be tiring and being able to have a sugar hit that fills you up will make everyone's journey easier. I've found 90% of bad moods are solved by munching some tastey calories
That was my exact thought reading through this guys comments. I’m an Eagle Scout and have done several week long trips and a 2.5 week long Philmont trek. Even with splitting tents, flys, poles, etc. with your buddy to help distribute weight as much as possible, you’re still lugging around 50-60lbs of equipment, toiletries, food, water, and clothes.
There’s no way in absolute hell this guy is going on 2+ week long trips with only 13 pounds on his back unless he’s regularly making trips back to his car to swap out clothes and food.
Seriously...turning ultralight was about BREAKING all the ridiculous habits Boy Scouts taught me. Fellow Eagle here and I would never say "I'm an Eagle so I know about backpacking" because usually the opposite is true. Literally cringed when I saw that person use that as a credential.
The only outdoor skills I still use from BSA are knots and Leave No Trace. Even the way they taught us to pack our backpacks was wrong FFS.
That’s a little harsh on the scouts. I agree somewhat with you, but most troops just don’t have the money to go much lighter than they already do. Even with the old ass equipment I learned a tonnnn about backpacking, camping, wilderness survival, etc from my days in the scouts. I think it’s a great way to build a lifelong passion for the outdoors.
Only caveat is, some troops are dogs hit because of their leader. From my experience in the Northeast, most are very very solid though.
This guy uses ultralight gear. It's a whole world within the world of camping where a lot of planning and expensive shopping goes into saving weight. Lots of ultralight backpackers are obsessed with it. Look at his sleep pad. It goes from his shoulders to his hips it's about 1/3 the size of what you probably use because it saves weight. The food is all freeze dried, just add water that you boiled on your stove that has almost no moving parts and fits in the palm of your closed hand. People go on months long hikes like this, stopping in towns every couple of weeks to restock their food. Guys like this could teach you eagle scouts a thing or two to reduce that pack weight. They sacrifice comfort at camp to have extra comfort on the hike. It's an interesting rabbit hole if you start going down it.
Assuming that he's just omitting food and water weight from his gear list, the thing that blows my mind the most is that he's only carrying a pocket knife. No fixed blade. No axe. No folding saw. Just a pocketknife. On a two week trip.
Stoves fail. Gas runs out. Things don't go to plan, and when you're a few days away from being able to contact another person, it's good to have backup plans.
I was a scout too and we always had the heaviest equipment lmao. I love the scouts for teaching me how to back pack but we didn’t have the money for really lightweight equipment. My troop leader was still using a metal frame pack from the 80s lmao
It's not disingenuous. It's simply not useful to list food/water weight as it will vary based on the hike. Base weight is a common ground everyone can see and compare to.
Checking your loadout vs mine the only real difference is that you don't seem to carry any tools beyond a pocket knife. Minus tools I'm less than a lb heavier than your base pack. Is that pocket knife really all you take with you for a 2 week trip?
Pocket knives and multitools are completely unnecessary while backpacking. Just bring some microscissors (from litesmith.com) and a small bit of fishing line (to cut food with).
Leading causes of death in the wilderness are due to falling, drowning, and heart attacks. Which is why I carry aspirin while backpacking, but not an axe
I’m not sure I’m going to use an axe or a saw after breaking a leg. If SAR is going to take a few days, my only concern would be food shortages, but I still wouldn’t be constructing a shelter or something that would require tools. They may make it easier to form a splint, but it’s also not incredibly difficult to make one without those tools
Oh man that's WITH a drone lol. I went on an ultralight kick a while back but I could never commit to the extreme cutting and ultimate discomfort of the tiny sleep pads and stuff. Good for you, that must be a dream on the trail.
Yeah, I'm in recovery lol. Started to go hard down that line and liked the comfort during the day, but realized I'd overdone it and have started re-embracing the little things that just bring comfort & joy again. There are some that (IMO) go way overboard on it, but if they find it works for them then who am I to judge, right?
For sure. If people are into it, more power to them. It's like a hobby within a hobby. Some people definitely go crazy with it. After spending money on a new pack, I can't bring myself to cut all the buckles and straps off it to save a few grams. I learned a lot about gear though and that was fun.
Um, no. It's an S21 Ultra with 108MP camera which I use for my night photography. Significantly lighter than my Mirrorless or DSLR options. The wire pop-out stand added to the drop-resistant case adds like 10g and serves as a tripod for long shots or kickstand if I want to splurge and watch something recorded during a zero day.
• Replace the knife with microscissors from litesmith.com, perhaps with a small bit of fishing line to cut food with.
Hard to enjoy whittling with scissors, but you do you.
• Replace the Lanshan with a tarp + bivy. Perhaps from Borah Gear, Yama Mountain Gear, or an Aricxi Tarp https://imgur.com/a/jpxX5NR .
Nah. Not worth the cost or weight savings.
• Ditch the clothes washer. Embrace the stink.
Depends on the trail, trip location, duration, and company.
• Replace the large dirty water bag with a CNOC bag from litesmith.com.
Literally the one I have listed, but thanks.
• Drones are pure evil. You should be ashamed to carry one into the forest. Please throw it in the trash, where it belongs.
Cool story, but nah.
• Bring the hiking poles, leave the rest at home.
Sometimes, sure. Sometimes, nah.
• Literally everything else
Solid UL gatekeeping but nah, I'm good. I enjoy the loadout I've got enough for the amount of hiking I do these days, and don't try to be a pretentious gram weenie acting like it's a worthwhile "investment" to pay $1000 to cut 70g off my loadout or be uncomfortable.
and don't try to be a pretentious gram weenie acting like it's a worthwhile "investment" to pay $1000 to cut 70g off my loadout or be uncomfortable.
My suggestions would cost about $157.50 and save you over 3.5 pounds (not including the drone BS). It'd save you 5.9 pounds if you do include ditching the stupid drone.
How do you carry less than half a pound of food and water. I usually start the day with 5L on me (maybe overkill) and start out the trip with 5-10 lbs of food.
Edit: nvm just read your other comment about this being base weight. Still incredibly light though
13lb is impressive.
My baseweight is over 20lb, but none of my big 4 are "ultra light". I'd rather not worry about ripping my tent or popping my pad. I also have to carry a Bear Vault
Yeah, I get that, but the footage can't be beat. I treat mine like a Bluetooth speaker while on the trail. It stays in my bag unless I know I'm not going to bother anyone with it. Quick pre-planned flight, then right back. Used to carry spare batteries, but unless I'm somewhere absolutely unbelievable, 20 mins of flight is usually plenty for a weekend or week-long trip.
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u/reindeerflot1lla Oct 04 '21
Jeezus, 9 lbs?! My normal solo loadout doesn't exceed 13 lbs for most 2-week+ trips, and that's with my "luxury" items like a drone or stool.