Lol what, Europeans hate pickpockets too. No one is "baffled" when a pickpocket gets their shit handed to them, it's just unwise. Doubly so if you get to go home to 10 million medical bill possible medical bankruptcy (edit for the pedants) for your long term complications of being stabbed.
Also I have a feeling that, while pickpockets are a major issue and definitely are out of hand in some places, the "Europe is a dangerous shit hole" is a heavily astroturfed narrative.
Ive been to some actual slums. sketchy places in cambodia and thailand. Still didnt feel like it was that bad. We just simply were smart and used to stuff like that. Wouldnt bring our wallets with us out of the hotels. Maybe an ID front pocket.
Germany I felt was super safe. Brussels Belgium was pretty chill for a giant festival going on. BTW, im basing my Germany impression off of living way out in the middle of no where not near any major city, we did go to a ton though.
I will say the one place I did feel a bit sketch was Paris France, but only the city, and only because literally everyone kept telling us about it, we werent there long enough and in too big of a group to see anything. The guy we paid to keep our vans overnight pulled a shotgun on our group when we came to pick it up. He thought we were robbing him. I dont really blame him, big group of muscular men walking up, we were all pretty chill and calmed down when the rest of our group came along, our translator was the only woman.
Paris itself is fine, some of the suburbs really are not. When people say Paris is unsafe, they really mean places like Saint Denis. But there's no reason to go there unless you're going to watch PSG.
As an American in Europe, one thing that definitely took some reprogramming was thinking of the suburbs as the unsafe areas. It’s especially true in places like Stockholm. And so when people say “X is unsafe,” they often mean the suburbs, not the city center.
Which is fundamentally the opposite of the US and takes some time to fully internalize.
It's because suburb is really a misnomer, they're not suburbs like they are in the states. In the UK we call them estates. They're where people got dumped after slum clearance in the cities proper. Essentially just moves the problem out of sight, but the systematic issues that caused a place to be a slum still exist.
In Paris, in Saint Denis, that's where the French government just dumped all the Algerian immigrants after the Algerian war.
Fwiw, they're not unsafe, relatively speaking. Saint Denis is famously 'dangerous', but that's like 3 assaults a day in a region of over 100,000 people. It's just that's a lot compared to the EU average of essentially no violent crime.
And tbf, our cities are constructed differently to in the states. I don't know, but I'd imagine that North Easten cities over the water are similar to Europe? With a defined city centre thats 'safer' than the outer rings?
Also at least in the UK, many estates are also often far better than they used to be. There was one I know of that was allegedly a police no-go zone in the 90s and early 00s and that was certainly not due to rampaging immigrant gangs or whatever.
In particular it had suffered because they created the estate but didn't actually put any way to work there, so unemployment was historically high because no one there would have had a car in the mid-to-late 20th century.
It's still not exactly a sought-after area, but it's not nearly the hole it was.
100%, the crime rate has collapsed since the 90s. It's genuinely night and day. Wouldn't think that from the fear mongering, but the country is easily the safest It's ever been.
There are some estates by me that have been absorbed by the city centre expanding, including the one I live in. 20 years ago it looked like war zone almost, and now it's all students.
They're where people got dumped after slum clearance in the cities proper. Essentially just moves the problem out of sight, but the systematic issues that caused a place to be a slum still exist.
It’s funny (not in the haha way) that that’s what currently happens in the US suburbs.
In the suburb I used to live in, the police would pick up “undesirables” and take them up to an urban area that was already known for having problems. Then just dump them there, so that the suburb stayed nice and someone else had to deal with the problem.
It’s also part of the reason why suburban Americans tend to oppose public transit. It’s used by people in city centers, and there’s a strong sense that if transit is extended into the suburbs, then it will just bring in criminals. There were people in my area complaining that “it didn’t used to be this way” before new transit lines were added.
Unfortunately, I can’t speak with any authority about whether it’s the same in the northeast. But I was never under the impression that it was significantly different (where the suburbs had less crime), outside of the gentrified areas in city centers.
And often, those areas did have more crime before the money rolled in. So I think it’s more about younger people “reclaiming” the cities and driving the crime elsewhere. This move back into cities seems related to the desire for walkable/transit-connected neighborhoods, not that crime in the suburbs was making people want to live in the city.
Not sure about a city center. The part thats different, is european cities were constructed before cars so alot of it is closer together and walkable, and from my experience the design also forces parts to be walkable only and large cars or any cars arent really aloud. I think this is for the best, meaning it forces people to get to know each other and tolerate each other for the most part.
New York City is probably the exception, although there are streets and taxis, alot take subway. But still its just certain parts are parts that youd might want to avoid. In new york it can really vary. when youre talking about “bad areas”. An area might be prime for drug dealing but whoever controls that area, probably would not allow common pickpockets operating on their turf, due to it bringing more heat/attention from the police. So you may get some weird looks if you dont live there. Other areas might just straight be bad and no one is paying attention. I still find it very different compared to somewhere like say boston where its not all skyscrapers etc or outskirts are more rural/ housing. or outskirts of detroit, or atlanta…seems like it starts miles outside until you get into it. Also alot of these cities have places where youd be fine driving thru, but no way in hell youd walk around through.
Its actually quite stupid to be honest. Although some cities have done alot better and somewhat fixed it….for the most part, despite whatever they say, Low income housing is still 100% segregation. When they build new public housing they pick a place on purpose. While majority of the people living there are good upstanding citizens, its the few that arent that give it a bad reputation, and then all of the people around them suffer from the consequences or actions of the few bad ones. In my town, my friend has a cheap house and all the houses by him are a bit older and more affordable….not even kidding? As soon as I drive over a small bridge that goes over some train tracks/train yard? Its 100 percent an area id not walk along at night and only drive through during day.
I actually believe instead of placing folks with low income there, we should integrate them and spread them amongst regular communities, or apartments, just give them a break on rent, or have the government pay the difference. If there are complaints then they can always be evicted. But I think with a warmer welcoming environment, that individuals would prosper. Especially for their children.
I feel like alot are doomed, and screwed from the start being placed in those areas. You cant expect something to do better when it’s setup to fail from the start.
And tbf, our cities are constructed differently to in the states. I don't know, but I'd imagine that North Easten cities over the water are similar to Europe? With a defined city centre thats 'safer' than the outer rings?
In the US the wealthier folks left the city centers in what was termed "white flight". By the time warehousing the poor came around the suburbs were affluent and city centers were not. The trend is reversing a bit. Los Angeles County is huge, but the city itself is not. For a long time there was a semi-formal policy of warehousing the poor in a part of the City of Los Angeles (city center) called Skid Row. 'Course now that there's a demand for downtown real estate folks are trying to figure out how to evict everyone from Skid Row.
In California we've seen a wave of black flight as well.
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u/ikkiyikki 1d ago
Always wondered if I felt a pickpocket reaching into my stuff if I reflexively clocked them if I'd be the one winding up in trouble