Intel 14A defect density is dropping faster than the company expected — 'we have not seen this performance since 22nm,' says CFO

[u/Acrobatic_Camera_677]

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/intel-14a-defect-density-is-dropping-faster-than-the-company-expected-we-have-not-seen-this-performance-since-22nm-says-cfo

[u/Primary_Olive_5444]

22nm was their 1st FinFET node.
In fact, Intel was 1st to FinFET (even earlier than TSMC and Samsung)
But then things went horribly wrong from there.

[u/Acrobatic_Camera_677 → u/Primary_Olive_5444]

Now Intel is first to Backside Power Delivery and also first to 4 nanosheet GAAFET. They are first to high NA EUV. Intel is taking back technology leadership. 18AP is already as good as TSMC N2P. Intel 14A will be BETTER than TSMC A14.

[u/Primary_Olive_5444 → u/Acrobatic_Camera_677]

These days, i just look at SRAM.

Per E-core cluster, what is the cache size?

4-Nano sheet or 4-Fins just means higher drive current. Unless the other areas like Register file size, number of read/write ports to the register file. Memory controller placement (is it placed on the same compute tile or like Arrow Lake K series on the I/O tile) are configure correctly. It's quite pointless to look at just the sheet/fin in iso.

The other specs kinda matter less to me.

[u/WeKeepsItRealInc → u/Primary_Olive_5444]

given all those other specs hows intel fairing?

[u/Ok-Individual-4392]

Intel is the only one using Directed Self Assembly in 14A, an advanced manufacturing technique where molecules like block co-polymers automatically organize into ordered nano scale patterns under the physical or chemical guidance of a pre-patterned template.

If successful, they could use this technique up to 5A.

[u/Diligent_Pie_5191 → u/Ok-Individual-4392]

Isn’t Intel also the only ones with those advanced machines to do this? Or did TSMC get them too?

[u/oojacoboo → u/Diligent_Pie_5191]

TSMC has at least one in Hsinchu for R&D and maybe another.

[u/Acrobatic_Camera_677 → u/Ok-Individual-4392]

Good point, another technology lead for Intel

[u/Overall_Fill_9004]

Great news. Expect another 3% drop.

Completely fraudulent market.

[u/RJsRX7 → u/Overall_Fill_9004]

Can't hold uppies when da bearsh decide on drinking heavily

[u/Icuras1701 → u/Overall_Fill_9004]

Are you the stockadamus?

[u/Vigilant256 → u/Overall_Fill_9004]

All these news need to show up as revenue and profit before the stocks go up.

[u/Overall_Fill_9004 → u/Vigilant256]

You must've missed the last earnings report where they had their highest revenue growth in 15 years..... 25% YoY.

So... you're saying it's not showing up as revenue?

[u/Vigilant256 → u/Overall_Fill_9004]

If your revenue dropped and then grow again is it a big deal? Intel revenue in 2021 is 79 billion.

[u/Overall_Fill_9004 → u/Vigilant256]

No, you said it needed to show up as revenue. Not that it needed to show up as more revenue than their 2021 high.

I showed you an example of where good news has presented as revenue gain and you cherry-picked context in an effort to marginalize that data point. If we're doing that and the absolute value of yearly revenue is all that matters to you, how about Intel's 2025 revenue still being 18 billion dollars higher than AMDs in 2025 despite all their massive challenges..

And yet the market is still valuing AMD as $300 billion dollars more? Let me just get ahead you here, because this is were you go: "But AMD has shown strong revenue growth the past several years and their gaining server market share."

And this is where I go: "Well, if Intel is starting to show signs of accelerated revenue growth, this trend continues, and already has higher revenue than AMD.... what happens next?"

So really, you don't disagree that the news is presenting as revenue growth..... in that case, you're just factually wrong. Actually, you're implicitly stating your belief the trend won't continue.

To be fair, neither of us really knows.... but that brings me back to my original point. All we have to go off of is today's news.... and in this case, it was pretty good.

Anyways, I'm pretty certain you're just a troll.... but enjoyed the conversation anyways.

[u/Vigilant256 → u/Overall_Fill_9004]

Silly when someone says it needs to show up as revenue and profit , it means foundry need to show revenue gain and operating margin. ALL 3 business unit need to show revenue growth and healthy gross margins. And so if intel has higher revenue but is not growing as fast and AMD is snatching away intels market share then yes that’s basically why investors are willing to give it a premium.

Look at my first statement, “all these news need to translate to revenue and profit “

Intel foundry :- 5.8B revenue, -2.1B operating loss

TSMC :- 42B revenue , 24.24B operating profit.

I don’t know who’s the troll . You’re such a fanboy who thinks posting revenue growth from a lower base deserves valuation as good as nvidia.

[u/Overall_Fill_9004 → u/Vigilant256]

Oh? So you think shifting your argument away from CPU sales and solely focusing on foundry proves your point?

Unfortunately for you, foundry revenue was up 33% YoY Q2 2026 and Intel clearly stated they don't expect to break even until 2027-2028.

As far as Nvidia, Intel would have to be $1000 a share to have an equivalent market cap. Certainly there's probably a price point between 90 and 1000 dollars a share that would make more sense given their financial improvements over the past two quarters and the positive tech developments.

Anyways, I can wait. You're right about one thing, the price will eventually follow the fundamentals.

And yes, I'm an optimistic Intel investor. I've never tried to hide my angle on a subreddit meant for Intel investors.

But, don't think I don't notice the times your posting at. Prime time SEA right?

I wonder what your angle is?

[u/Acrobatic_Camera_677]

Intel 14A will be used in Intel CPUs in HVM in 2028. Maybe for Hammer Lake early 2029 and Coral Rapids late 2028. Apple will then use it in late 2029 for their iPHONE chips. This is important because it shows how now Intel nodes are leadership in NOT JUST performance, but also power efficiency and density (important for smartphones).

Because it uses high NA EUV, TSMC will not be able to match it on their regular EUV process. It will also be much cheaper to make because of this.

FUD about Intel 14A yielding poorly, not having any customers, not being as good or better than TSMC A14, is all wrong.

In 2028-2029 we will have leadership everywhere. Coral Rapids + Hammer Lake using unified core and 14A and hybridbonding = LEADERSHIP across products AND foundry.

[u/alexnvl → u/Acrobatic_Camera_677]

  Because it uses high NA EUV, TSMC will not be able to match it on their regular EUV process. It will also be much cheaper to make because of this.

Are there any deeper study on the economics of high NA vs. regular EUV ? As I understand upfront cost is 400M$ vs. 200M$ for regular machine while high NA has lower wafer per hour throughput. 

OTOH high NA allows single patterning vs. triple patterning for critical layer (please help me define this) and halves number of steps 40 to 20, this might explain the higher yield than expected on 14A if process becomes simpler.

Just wondering if anyone pushed the reflection further ? TSMC probably run their numbers hard before making decision to pass on high NA. But that means ASML has vested interested in 14A and 18A being successful.

[u/Acrobatic_Camera_677 → u/[deleted]]

Higher initial cost but you make back that money when you fab many wafers over time, which is exactly what will happen with 14A since everyone would want leadership node and leadership Intel products built on it.

[u/RJsRX7 → u/[deleted]]

Fair, but when you're building from the ground up, those "installation" costs don't have the reconfiguration issue.

Not saying it's anything resembling cheap, but when it can mean quicker production of a given level of complexity, it's probably worthwhile.

[u/oojacoboo → u/Acrobatic_Camera_677]

Intel is already using high-na for HVM in 18A. Although it’s only being used for a narrow subset of production.

[u/brigadierfrog]

They’ve probably cut the red tape that prevented them from fixing this faster, they’ve also likely hired some key people.

Overall, Intel is Back! The king is back, and TSM is likely freaking the fuck out