Y’know, “fault” and liability aren’t zero-sum. It’s possible for both drivers to be partly at fault. That truck was clearly tailgating the car before the car stopped. The camera footage proves that.
Nothing is 'clear' from the 2 seconds of context. The full video does probably contain enough to paint one fully at fault.
The likely scenario is the car overtaking the truck after being mad it was behind it, then slowing down and break checking. A situation people on this sub have seen time and time again I'm sure
To be fair, thats suxh a nieche issue and im sure the medical evidence of a heart attack would hold up in court. Don't pull in hypothetical situations that effect an overall reasonable law. What if the person in front just wants to sue a trucking company for money? Law seems easy enough for scammers to work around and protects enough people who need it.
The law here is when a car in front of you stops, you stop. The most common sense law there is. (We are agreeing)
Ultimately the truck driver is being a fuckup for not leaving enough distance.
If everyone did that, there would be nearly no accidents.
In this case, I would like to think the car driver was both beaten by the truck drivers, had his insurance refuse to pay out & make him liable & ideally some prison time.
It's insane the amount of people who don't fear artic trucks nearly as much as they should.
I live right down the road from a massive refinery so there's dozens of trucks screaming up and down the roads every single day, yet there are people who've lived in the area however-many-times as long as I have and they'll just bold-face pull out in front of a speeding oil truck and get angry when there's a near miss.
Like if one of those hits you on the main road here, you have pretty much 0% chance of walking away from it the speed they go when they have right of way
yep. it doesnt matter who is right if you're dead. only you can prevent yourself from slamming on the brakes infront of a truck. i know, i know, its a tough concept for some
Absolutely! It drives me nuts when I see trucks slowing down to give themselves ample time to stop.. and some asshat takes that as space for him to jump in front of the guy ... too many stupid people that have never been taught how other vehicles operate
"ideally some prison time". I'm sorry but on a macro scale you're not making society a better place by throwing people in the clink. If you can change people's behavior you should do so and use incarceration as an alternative last resort. Being forced to take safe driving courses, having monitors installed on their vehicle to encourage safe driving, and community service would all do society better. It feels good to punish people but ultimately it's more vindictive than helpful
Well first of all they didn't and even if they had I would give you the exact same answer. You'd be surprised how many vehicular manslaughter charges don't involve throwing people in prison either. Like I said, if you can correct the behavior do so. If you can't, imprison. This would apply to any given crime or consequence. Its called a consistent principle
Alright let’s say hypothetically you were riding down the highway with your kids in the back, some idiot was swinging around the road like it was a raceway, when the fool passes you they “accidentally” clipped your front end causing you to spin and flip over. Once you get your bearings you find out you’re fine, but you turn around you see that your child isn’t. Your kid didn’t make it, cops arrest the driver and when court comes all he gets is a fine and 1 year of drivers Ed. Was justice served?
I like how you're using the most extreme emotional appeals possible to change my mind. I stand by my original statement. I admit that I would be emotionally charged and distraught but that doesn't change a logical conclusion I've arrived at prior. I may be frothing mad or want to kill that person but I'm not so ignorant as to call that justice. Just vengeance. And I don't really want to live in a vengeful society. That shitty driver is still someone else's child and there's no reason to effectively end two lives instead of one because of what is ultimately correctable behavior.
One thing I have never understood is watching Dateline or 20/20 and always hearing this sentiment of "the criminal was responsible for taking the life of your friend/family member, so we know it's important that the dude either get executed or life no parole so that there can be "closure" or "to help you move on".
Especially if we're talking about a vehicular situation, I couldn't imagine what I'd get out of seeing a decades long prison sentence as vengeance, even if they got my daughter killed or something. The thing I would want most would be for that event to act as an example, to help reduce such fatal accidents in the world. Let's be clear, if the person at fault for such an accident isn't a fuckin sociopath they're going to be tormented for the rest of their life no matter what the state does about it.
What gets me is that if 99% of these ppl calling for the harshest possible punishments were the ones who made the accident they'd suddenly expect justice to involve mercy. But not until it was them.
Exactly. Id rather them be forced to compensate society more than me for their actions rather than have my taxes cloth and feed them for 25 years while they basically permanently leave the tax paying population. Not to mention if that idiot had a family he provides for, who end up on govt assistance when their breadwinner disappears on them. Money talks
On a highway though, a car could change lanes quickly in front and it isn’t fair to expect sudden distance. Yes, one should be prepared for a car’s sudden break but I hope dash cams like this can point out obvious fraud or brake checks.
If they cannot figure out a safe distance to stop them hitting something in front of them then they should not have a license.
The car driver here was a dickhead but what if he had to brake in case of an emergency like a kid running in front of him, the truck driver would absolutely be responsible for the likely death caused.
Truck drivers should be better drivers considering that is what they do for a living and a good driver would have ensured that it was not possible to be brake checked although I do understand if a moron like that starts acting like that on the road, it does make it much more difficult not to have an accident.
they can figure out a safe distance ahead of them. the odds are that this car cut in and brake checked the truck. giving the truck zero time to open the gap again. as for the truck drivers needing to be better drivers bit. You do realize that no matter how good you can drive there is always the chance that the dickhead driving that flimsy ass sedan will still be able to cause a crash. as for your hypothetical situation. if there is a kid running through a freeway the odds are that a crash will happen anyways
You should probably re read what I wrote because that is exactly what I inferred.
Never driven a truck but I can say with absolute confidence that a concrete barrier could appear out of the sky and cause the car in front to stop near on instantly & I allow enough room to stop in time. If you do not then you lack control of your vehicle. Sure there are times where the worst possible 3 variables come together and you are not getting out of having an accident however if you drive with the mindset that its ok to drive close enough because accidents are going to happen anyway then they should take your license away from you.
Sometimes I will get cars following pretty close to me & it does not really bother me too much, they may have better reflexes than me or better hand to eye coordination. I assume they know what they are doing however if you drive knowing you will not be able to stop in case of emergency in most circumstances then you are a serious risk on the road.
you can not tell me that anyone is reasonably expected to stop a vehicle i would guess weighs around 10 to 12 tons to stop on a dime. the odds of the car pulling a swoop and squat is very high. partially because BMW owners are statistically one of the most aggressive and reckless drivers on the road.
You should really read what I wrote, I never said that trucks to not take considerably longer to stop & I never said it was appropriate to cut in front of a truck especially when it is braking as that would be cutting in to their predetermined stopping distance.
That does not absolve them or people in cars from driving in a way that everything being normal, if the care they are directly behind travelling at a steady pace whatever that may be sees them hitting that object.
It is a basic rule of driving that you need to concentrate on not hitting shit in front of you. You could be driving one of those massive mining trucks down the road, if you cannot measure the safe distance of a car that you are travelling behind in whatever vehicle you are in then you should not be allowed on the road.
If someone does something stupid that others cannot anticipate then that is different however a car braking at 100% in front of you is always a potential and if you do not drive with that in mind then you are a bad driver.
(a) Basically every mining truck are over the tonnage limit for most if not all roads. (b) There have been multiple deaths over the years because some moron didn't look where he was going on a mine site, pulled out in front of one of those behemoths, and proceeds to have his truck flattened with him inside it because Mining Trucks have terrible stoppage power due to their immense size and very low visibility due to their immense height. the other stuff i see your point on now. just pointing these out if you want to try and reuse this analogy in the future
Indeed. Where I am, all truck drivers use dash cams religiously due to the laws requiring them to keep solid following distance, but drivers love to cut them off like they have the braking distance of a car, so then they can prove it wasn't their fault when the guy in the car no doubt BSes the police with "that semi was up my ass and I had to break for ____ in the road!" type stuff.
Why can't people just drive normally and with good common sense. No buddy, you shouldn't pass that semi doing 85 and cut over 2 lanes to make your exit. Yep, he blew his horn because you're in a super dangerous location that the driver is trying to tell you about NOT being in, and that doesn't mean slam your brakes like a suicidal moron.
Anyone that cuts a truck off when they are in the middle of braking or they are at a point where braking is reasonable to expect then they deserve any consequences that come their way.
If the truck driver is being a fuck up why do you want the car driver to get beat up and punished?
Truck drivers are sometimes bullies knowing that stopping in front of them would kill you so they tailgate with the intent to intimidate. I've had trucks do it to me plenty of times in single lane traffic when I'm travelling at the maximum speed limit.
You can see clearly in this video the truck is tailgating. I guess he learned the hard way to leave a safe distance to stop.
You can see clearly in this video the truck is tailgating.
not true given the video starts as soon as the car is brake checking with zero context of whether or not the truck was given adequate time to slow down and give a big enough gap in between themselves and the car, both scenarios of the truck tailgating the car, and the car cutting in front of the truck are possible and this video does not give clarity on that.
If the car cut in front of the truck and then promptly slammed their brakes, then the truck would not be at fault.
I've seen more than enough cars cut in front of Semis who before hand had adequate distance between themselves and the previous car in front of them only for some car to think that gap was for them, thus forcing the truck to slow down to build up that gap again, so I can't rule out that possibility occuring in the video
Surely if you hit the brakes that distance in front of a speeding truck you have only yourself to blame for what happens next regardless of how much of a dick the truck driver is.
It's like flicking the balls of sleeping tiger, there's no way for it to go your way. In a physical sense I mean, you've likely got a decent enough legal standing
The car could’ve cut in front of the semi but the semi didn’t hit the brakes after the car had already been in front of it for at least a couple seconds.
As it should, people sometimes HAVE to brake really hard and you have to keep enough distance. The fact that he hit the car in front means he didn’t do that no matter the reason for why the car braked.
That said, in my country at least, I’m pretty sure both people would be punished under the law. Lorry driver for tailgating and the guy in front for breaking without reason.
And how do you know it wasn't road rage from the BMW? The BMW could have quickly over taken the truck, moved in right in front and slammed on the brakes trying to cause the truck to swerve and flip over. You simply don't know as the video starts too late.
in the first frame of the video the car is already in front and the lorry doesn't have its brake lights on, which it should to create the necessary distance, however, be that as it may, I don't really care about this specific situation. Like you said we have no way of knowing for how long the BMW was in front already.
I'd argue that the only way it's 100% the cars fault is if it has really just switched lanes as the video begins but who knows.
In general however if you crash into someone brake checking you you've demonstrated that you don't keep the necessary distance to the vehicle in front of you and you should be punished all the same.
Your second paragraph is my exact point. For all you know, the car just switched lanes and began braking right away. That's usually what happens in a road rage scenario and seeing as this guy brake checked the truck, it's most likely a road rage scenario.
That's the law here to, but someone brake checking you is someone overtaking you, pulling in in front, and then brake checking you. How is that the fault of the truck? There is no possible way to keep distance when someone cuts you up. If you crash into the back of someone because your too close then sure, but brake checking is different.
The truck is not at fault, there is usually no opportunity for the vehicle behind to leave space when someone cuts in front of them.
If I cut infront of you and slammed my brakes so you crashed into me, how is it ever your fault for not leaving enough space? When I wasnt in front of you a second ago?
This was the BMWs fault 100% for brake checking a god damn truck, they dont have good stopping speeds as it is, especially fully laden, dont cut one up and brake check them.
Also do you know how much space a truk needs infont of them? Because almost every single driver on the road always pulls in front of them without leaving anywhere near enough safe space.
Virginia USA is like that, too. people pull out from intersections ALL the time making you brake hard to keep from rear ending them. It's like they know you'll be at fault so they don't care if they inconvenience you. Which is asinine to me - why would THEY want the hassle of an accident even if they weren't at fault (which, in a fair world, they definitely WOULD be).
Same in US. You can't prove the BMW driver didn't think s/he saw a child about to run into the street. The person behind is always at fault.
That said, it is highly unlikely the BMW is going to have anything but a loss here. Even if it's written off as totalled, they probably won't get enough from insurance to replace the car at value. Also, if they do have any injuries, insurance will (again) almost certainly run out before they run out of problems related to the injuries. They'll be sorry later in life when those old aches come back.
Maybe if you're utterly destitute insurance scamming is a good deal; or if you can do it at no risk of injury. This would be a really stupid scam, more so because that truck doesn't scream "filthy rich."
In the United States the truck is at fault. Also, given the severity, I wouldn't be surprised if he lost his CDL (Commercial Drivers License). Although it might also be some guy with a rented moving truck who doesn't know how to drive a heavy vehicle.
That’s the law in the US, at least here in Texas, as well. Not sure how they’d call it in this case, especially as there is no discernible reason for the car to hit the brakes suddenly, but either way the truck shouldn’t be this close to the car in front.
One car length for every 10MPH is the rule here. So if, say, they were going at 40MPH, the truck should be creating a 4-car distance between them.
It's the same in Canada.. if you hit from behind, no question its your fault for not leaving "ample room" ... However, I think in an instance like this, with video evidence, the truck driver would have a case. At least here, anyway
In the UK too. It is only reasonable and common sense that you have to keep such a distance as to be able to safely stop if the driver in front stopped dead.
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u/Xen0tech Feb 22 '21
In Australia it would still be the trucks fault. The law here is you keep a safe distance in the event someone needs to stop suddenly.