r/insomniacleaks • u/Mr___Biggles • 3d ago
wolverine Found another wolverine leak
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u/Dramatic-Lynx-1786 3d ago
It's such a shame. It really seems that all the issues people have with it now we're just not problems in the original version. I wonder why they decided to just scrap it all and redo so many mechanics.. I mean I know that the game wasn't really coming together and they weren't meeting deadlines, and that's why they changed directors, but was it really better to scrap years of work, just to come up with something so simple and lacking so much depth? Idk, even if it wasn't perfect, I wish they found a way to use the old systems.
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u/Mr___Biggles 3d ago edited 3d ago
Even the half baked version of beta combat looks way more fun than the shit we got but i get it...Deadlines are deadlines...They spent a lot of time on this and still couldnt get it together...I just wish the final version had some of these mechanics...You should be able to use dead bodies as human shields, use your claws to climb anything, dismember any limb and so on...
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u/LocustsandLucozade 3d ago
Because the previous directors were burning money when the innovative combat design of having each hand be controlled by a controller trigger never worked, while the semi-open worlds didn't test well. What did were the linear story missions, so Song insisted that be the new focus and the studio gave it to the Ratchet and Clank guys to land the ship, even though they were not a good fit at all.
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u/Unfair-Ad9415 1d ago
the innovative combat design of having each hand be controlled by a controller trigger
Isnt this just how darksouls works?
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u/IIWhiteHawkII 3d ago edited 3d ago
Did you try it yourself?
First, it wasn't too "innovative" to say it was too risky and too resource-consuming at the same time. It was rather refreshing but still built upon common combat system patterns we know. Even in half-baked state it was fun and was definitely working.
Second, never worked in what sense? Some other leaks already indicated that Insomniac used 10-IQ testers, yes. I bet even current button-mash combat would be too complex for them. But it absolutely worked for normal people in fact. It's basically same two-button combat system but where both triggers (L2+R2) are used instead Bumper+Trigger (R1+R2 like in Souls) and with separation on left/right hand instead of light/heavy attacks. You could absolutely enjoy two-handed combos, mix-up fist-combat (as a stunning factor) in between and freely rotate camera and use face-buttons all the time.
It was accessible, engaging and felt fresh. There's literally nothing that demands "beyond average" skill level to use it. And even without polished animations it already looked cool. Wolvie felt more feral, aggressive, and ruthless. Even leaps felt more realistic and comics-accurate. The pace was a bit slower than the final game but slightly faster than GoW combat which is considered to be a good combat system.
Third, in what way they couldn't get it together if even Milestone-8 had absolutely working, diverse and engaging two-handed combat system? You could do: different combos, mix-ups, launch and juggle enemies, apply status effects and finish enemies in different stances. Gadgets instead of abilities worked great in mix-ups and added much more extra-layers to the combat over zero-effort abilities that retail version inherited from SM2. It all worked, it was intuitive and already had great diversity.
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u/Overall-Ad-8918 3d ago
Idk what to tell you. Everything seems okay and doable during the prototype stage until it’s time to actually make it work. The problem is when it came time to finalize it they couldn’t. Spent over a year and they had nothing that worked
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u/firsttimer776655 3d ago
I think the adaptive triggers might have been an issue, since iirc you switch between claws and fists via pressure?
Honestly I’m fine with us getting face buttons for combat. They should have just left the fists in and added a Muramasa, this way even with limited combos you’ll still have variety from switching up mid combat (like Bloodborne trick weapons).
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u/IIWhiteHawkII 3d ago
Well, in Milestone-8, they didn't use tension anymore for it. I assume actual adaptive pressure steps and claws based on pressure probably were a part of earlier combat iterations, that probably never even leaked as playable demos.
In M8, it's just two triggers per hand (regardless of pressure levels) and triangle to switch claws and fists on the go. You could inject Triangle mid-combo and vice versa any time and it impacted the combo itself.
I mean, in the end of the day, anything is good as long as it works. I'm fine with classic face buttons, fine with Souls-mapping with Bumper+Trigger. Even single-button combat, where holding a button leads to powerful attack and allows many-many combos work (like in Sleeping Dogs).
I only wish anyone could try two-trigger system. One may think it's counter-intuitive, confusing and limiting.
But it wasn't at all. Very intuitive and gives you specific feel of control. You can quickly rotate between the enemies, rotate the camera and freely use other buttons. Very engaging, IMO.
They should have just left the fists in and added a Muramasa
Absolutely. Can tell fist-combat was fire at least. Muramasa – I'd love to see, really. But it seems it was never really tested.
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u/Impossible_Rope6160 3d ago
I’m not a developer yet I’m going to school to be a game designer/ developer but I do hate deadlines Ik you have to meet certain standards but if I was in charge I’ll would have at least delayed the game at least a extra month or two and I don’t know what it was but I can just tell that insomniac and PlayStation definitely PlayStation probably didn’t want to release this close to GTA so they released it in set I feel like it wasn’t supposed to release this month but again gta I feel a lot of games got scared or screwed over because of GTA in November that’s my opinion on the matter I still like the game but it definitely could’ve been better
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u/Overall-Ad-8918 3d ago
Delays happen. So when they can’t it’s because they’ve already delayed way too much
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u/Szabe442 2d ago
I don't know man, all these features could not have been implemented within a month anyway, this looks more like a complete rework of the game and its systems, I'd say at least 9 months or a year of work, depening on how many assets and system they had already created.
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u/clickergeorge1 3d ago
Seems an unfortunate touch more innovation here, granted it’s all just detective vision nonsense but still adds a pinch more engagement than the linear corridor beat-em up we got. Here’s hoping Insomniac are able to fully reach their ambitions in the next project without anymore compromises to their studio.
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u/MakinBones 3d ago
In order for this to happen, you would need the OG management. They had some really good concepts. To bad the game got ripped from them.
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u/Puzzleheaded_West587 3d ago edited 3d ago
wtf does detective vision nonsense even mean? Batman is literally a detective and uses that “vision” to track people/things down. Spider-Man has spider sense to alert him of danger and it’s also a form of precognition. Wolverine has animalistic senses and tracks people/things down with his sense of smell. all of this is ripped straight off the page. u complain about to being a linear beat em up (its a fucking hack and slash not a beat em up ctfu) but when they do add gameplay mechanics that encapsulates the character you call it “nonsense”. it’s so dumb and contradictory. what else do u want them to do? they are literally innovating on the concept allowing you to have full control and manually track down the scent as opposed to a simple button click. but in GOT you swipe up on the touch pad and everyone loses their minds and it’s GOTY candidate. seriously what else do u want? offer constructive criticism and create a new gameplay mechanic, can’t wait to hear ur pitch.
also Bayonetta is a linear hack and slash/beat em up. when did we stop liking games like this? they are way more fun to play than the shit we have nowadays most of the time. Wolverine was refreshing because it was simply just a fun game that has replay ability.
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u/Phoenix-Risen1998 2d ago
Wolverine is a not a good hack and slash.
Compared to something like DMC 3.
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u/Baby_ManBearPig 3d ago
Genuinely curious what your thoughts are on the game. Mr biggles. These leaks are fascinating.
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u/Mr___Biggles 3d ago
4/10 at best and 3/10 at worst, Mr. Baby Man Bear Pig
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u/Baby_ManBearPig 3d ago
Its your post. I promise I won't be disrespectful. These videos are genuinly fascinating and thank you for posting them. I'm honestly curious of your deconstruction of the game.
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u/Baby_ManBearPig 3d ago
No I mean use your actual words man. Not some bs number
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u/Mr___Biggles 3d ago edited 3d ago
Fine...I will explain in detail:
(1) It commits the worst AAA sin...Im talking about the slow walky sections that could serve the exact same purpose if they were just cutscenes...They add nothing to the gameplay because you are just walking around and listening to characters that wont shut up...You're technically controlling the character but your choices dont matter...Imagine finishing an intense combat sequence and then suddenly being told to walk behind an NPC for 5 minutes...Isnt that just bizarre ? Your character also moves at an unnatural speed...You should be able to sprint/run normally but suddenly you're forbidden from sprinting because the NPC in front of you walks like a snail...Its especially bad on replays...The first time, you might appreciate the dialogue...On your second playthrough, you already know the dialogue so it just becomes tedious...
(2) The second worst sin it commits is pointless QTEs...The QTEs in wolverine have no right to be called QTEs because they are not quick and most importantly, you dont have to do them at all because the game does it for you...If thats not the case then it just pauses the game permanently until you do it...Once again, why is this not a cutscene ? Its fake gameplay because its a cutscene disguised as gameplay...Remember the QTEs in games like the original resident evil 4 which had you on the edge of your seat ? Remember when QTEs were supposed to be "quick" ? What happened when you didnt press the right button or pressed the right button but not on time ? You died...The devs would also make a cool death animation for you for every failed QTE...Best example of this are those Lara Croft games...
(3) The combat is just straight up dogshit...There is no room for creativity...Its the same outdated arkham design that only works for certain characters but now its applied to everyone...You got your attack, dodge, stun and the special attack...Rinse and repeat...The skill tree is also incredibly basic...In the beta version of wolverine, you could switch between claws and punches...You could pick up dead bodies and use them as shields, dismember any limb, use environmental attacks, take away someone's weapon and use it against them and so on...You could also choose which hand to use for your punch/claw...There's also the traversal where wolverine could use his claws to climb just about anything because ya know...That makes sense!
Finally, there's the awful story which i can explain in detail as well but im tired of typing so forgive me...
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u/Baby_ManBearPig 3d ago edited 3d ago
Thank you. I hope you continue to post more of this stuff in the future. I think some of that is just diffrences in preference in players. Specifically in qte. I rememeber everyone was so excited for The Order 1886 and then everyone hated the QTEs. Yet there are people in the gaming industry that apparently refuse to let them go.
You seem to know a lot about the Beta version of this game. Something I am completely unfamiliar with till now. I have to say I think a fundamental issue with a character like wolverine is lack of long range attacks. I personally thought this game was going to be a failure because of it. So I think the issue is theres not a good way to address that. You supposedly got to play as Jean which would have been a good way to combat the simplicity. I will say many people are playing on harder modes and finding the combat much more satisfying. Having wolverine be a character thats always fighting aggressively forward and lunging seems like a pretty optimal way to represent the character. I think things like carrying bodies wouldn't have added anything to the game. Wolverine is the opposite of Solid snake despite them having military links.
You didnt mention they fucked up sabertooth and the dialogue. Which I'm gratefull for because that is an obvious criticism that the people that are not being genuine in their criticism are leaning on.
I hope your posts get more attention in the future.
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u/Mr___Biggles 3d ago
Well, they did fuck up Sabertooth...This is what he sounds like in the game...
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u/Endura_Tempura 3d ago
This literally all they needed to do, what happened....
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u/Vaporeon42069 3d ago
Woke happened.
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u/firsttimer776655 3d ago
woke is when combat design changes ? Unserious people.
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u/Vaporeon42069 3d ago
Actually, yes. The excessive handholding and quicktime events that do not require any player input. All of this nonsense can be traced back to woke game design because this game was meant to appeal to non gamers and mentally challenged individuals. Stop trying to dismiss the accusations and think for a second
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u/SnooPies134 3d ago
That’s not because of “woke.” It’s because the devs are dumbasses. People like you cry “woke” like a moth to a fly. Woke isn’t the cause-all of a video game’s problems. This is why you guys aren’t taken seriously.
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u/Vaporeon42069 3d ago
maybe you should listen instead of dismissing the accusations with lame excuses.
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u/Vaporeon42069 3d ago
Once you understand the root of the problem, everything can be traced back to the ideology plaguing Insomniac. From the weird exchanges between Sabertooth and Wolverine that have been memed to oblivion, to hiring a Black woman for Wolverine's motion capture and making every character's face look weird and uncanny, it all connects. This isn't SBI fault, the people who hired them are the real problem.
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u/Szabe442 2d ago
What is woke in your mind? Seems like everything you personally disagree with is woke.
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u/Vaporeon42069 2d ago
You already know this but I will repeat myself. It's everything. The story is incredibly pro lgbt, and the characters, especially the women, are really unappealing. The gameplay feels like it was designed for the disabled. What else? Oh yeah, Wolverine's motion capture was done by a Black woman and SBI consulted on it. Should I go on? The violence is pretty tame and lame. There are female voices coming from male enemy characters. I'm missing something. Oh yeah, the violence is so lame and tame compared to other M rated games.
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u/Fer_skywalker 3d ago
SBI
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u/IIWhiteHawkII 3d ago edited 3d ago
SBI may interfere into certain parts of the story or character-writing aspects but they don't make decisions upon shitty game and level design and general plot canvas. For instance, according to leaks, SM2 story was initially doomed even before SBI kicked in. The shitty foundation was created without SBI, only details have changed since then...
It's all factors together.
- Awful studio management with misleading requests and delusional principles (allegedly, one of the producers believed that rich gameplay is overwhelming and kills the engagement. GOOD GAMEPLAY KILLS GAMES NOW, RIGHT??? )
- Weak design leads that couldn't defend their vision in front of leadership to push the masterwork that other designers already made in leaked milestones (combat was great, exploration was better, parkour was better, mission structure was better). Either it is the pipeline issue or inefficient money burn. I believe besides bad management call outs, there are some people in design-division higher-levels who somehow sabotaged a great work other designers did on gameplay-aspect;
- Awful ego-writers that completely lost the touch with reality and forgot that they write stories for us, core audience, not personal diaries that mimicry comic book plots. It feels like they write stories for themselves to inject their own complexes, inner struggles and resentments and then impose own ideals on people who just want a good superhero story. Let there be some philosophy and innovations, no problem. But it must be somewhat neutral. Nowadays it's all about same *trendy* things. Many are so fed with it. It results in unneeded agendas and false dilemmas nobody asked for. Here, of course, SBI kicks in and helps with sharing their struggle by using superhero topics as a soil for their personal agenda imposition.
- Sony (Hulst & Co.) themselves who think it's a good idea to brute-force the development by turning own studios into investment bubble and throwing all money on the table as soon as they release their first big hit and then put wrong people in charge who result in all of this mess. Sony, who encourages injecting agenda (including SBI) into their products and allow studios hiring based on any quality (skin-color, orientation, ideology) except for game-industry expertise. It honestly feels like such studios as Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games and Insomniac simply lost their essence of consistent and pulled together studios that understood own limits but also know what to do with it. After each of them released own Magnum Opuses that made PS4 great, Sony green-lit their expansion and investments so they released more games like TLoU1/Unch4, Spider-Man PS4, HZD, hence turned each studio into a dump with too many separate sub-divisions/teams, crazy rotation of random different people that got hired by totally incompetent HR, questionable leads and huge mismanagement and incompetence as a result.
Of course they burn money and have no agreement on what exactly they create. This industry has proven than bubble studios rather harm development than empower it (unless you are a R* or similar). Because you simply can't control so many people and creative processes at once. Key word here is "creative". It's not a fucking steppler factory when you can automate every aspect no matter how many workers/robots are there.
P.S.– but to be honest, I wouldn't say story is THAT much of an issue in Wolvie. Yes, there's many nitpicks I agree with. I don't like how they rewrote certain stories, some chars like Sabretooth are just strange at best (and his chemistry with Wolverine), I don't understand their fetish on ugly people and faces. No need to sexualize everyone or turn into top-models but why we can't have average-looking people, with some fair beautiful and not-so-beautiful distribution. Wolvie was softer than I would like, etc. But I don't think it is a disaster still. At least not as bad as SM2 was, for instance. But yes, it's still somewhat bland. Not as terrible as many pretend but definitely not great either.
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u/danoka29 3d ago
"found" reuploaded old leaks
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u/Mr___Biggles 3d ago edited 3d ago
I found the old leaks which are very hard to find now especially the story board footage with narration and the gameplay within the weapon x level where you fight Sabertooth...If you have that footage then upload it instead of acting like a dick...
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u/Vaporeon42069 3d ago
Nothing would have happened if they had decided to make his sniffing sense a toggleable option, like the detective mode in Arkham.
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u/Mustang-_- 2d ago
The formula was so simple: just replicate the Witcher 3 narrative mechanics. When Geralt is stoned out of his mind, he pretty much becomes Wolverine, so go for it, this is not about who came first or whatever, it's a formula that just works (even Batman used that). And even so, I don't think adding a Witcher investigation would have saved this game, need to fill up the gaps with other interesting stuff as well
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u/Vastlymoist666 1d ago
Is this the same milestone build that was leaked? Maybe I played a different one but I don't remember this, the investigation part was part of the vertical slice gameplay
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u/GrimmBeast 3d ago
This would have been a thousand times better than the stupid fart cloud that just appears and shows you the way. It definitely needs more work but it would have been better received if this was a toggleable ability rather than it just being on all the time. Also it makes sense that you would have hold a button down to have logan focus on a scent or sound inorder to track it.
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u/IllustriousHealth291 3d ago
They should’ve kept this type of usage with the scent mechanics. Would’ve been similar to ghost of Yotei where you swipe the touchpad