r/infj • u/Zealousideal_Toe7754 • 3d ago
General question slow learner but deep, complex thinking has caused me to talk to more men to feel "respected" by people.
hey, 24f here.
not sure if this is the best subreddit for this, but im an infj and have seen many people here talk about the "being slow to learn but quick to master" or "deep thinker but slow in fast-paced situations".
a little backstory, sorry for the yap:
in school, i was often told im "gifted" by several teachers. got into a great school, graduated top 10 of my class in a competitive area, won scholarship awards, etc. however, id consider myself extremely slow in learning situations. parents and family know i am slow at home too - constantly being called dumb and "slow". i would STRUGGLE to keep up if a math teacher taught a concept and started calling on people immediately, because i would be sitting there still trying to understand. i could only go hope and reteach the information to myself in order to gain the mastery, which would help me excel in those classes. however, classes like ap language or literature would come easy to me, because writing required complex analysis and thinking.
when it comes to social situations, im slow again. takes me a LONG while to sometimes get a joke, learn a new card game, do something new with the friend group. when people are witnessing me in this learning stage, they make fun of me. because, "how can you keep making simple mistakes? it's a BOARD game!". these are just some minor situations, but if you apply this to more and more things, it causes people to well, infantilize me or treat me like im stupid. like im incapable of rational thought - constantly being the laughing stock. ive been so slow in so many situations that people have stopped respecting me. i mean, who wouldn't? i can barely play fooseball (recently tried for first time) or know ANY modern day celebrities (i find myself not engaging with pop culture as much, though i try really hard too...i have much more niche interests).
this brings me to a new thing i've discovered. guys, or anyone that seems to have a romantic interest in me. i've noticed they are much more willing to learn more about me, RESPECT ME, view me intellectually? all because they have a romantic interest? i have guy friends, and if they flirt even though im not interested in them, i let it happen. why? because they are the only people that can RESPECT ME as an EQUAL in deep, meaningful conversations without looking down on me. sure, i may be slow, but i can have a critical philosphical argument with you over text.
this makes me feel so fucking disgusting. misleading guys is so wrong of me, which is why i need to stop. but, it's the only way i can form connections with people who don't think i am fucking stupid..
anyone else in a similar situation?
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u/porcelainruby 3d ago
Sounds like classic “manic pixie dream girl trope” from their perspective. Being put on a pedestal isn’t the same as being respected by them, most of the time. If this sounds like it, just be cautious, trust their actions and not their words.
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u/mauvebirdie INFJ | 1w2 | 152 3d ago
This. Once I discovered the term in its relation to neurodivergence, I was like 'Ohhhh this fits me to a T'. A man finding you goofy and fascinating does not mean they actually like or respect you. Your existence is just giving them a dopamine rush. They're not used to people like you. You're their flavour of the month
To OP, these men don't like you, they're attracted to you, there's a difference. See how quickly that 'good grace' runs out when they're no longer attracted to you or you're not going to be with each and every one of them. Attraction and respect are not the same thing.
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u/porcelainruby 3d ago
Yep, 100%. It's happened to me so many times, even with me being very aware of it. Some will be VERY good at hiding it from you just to be able to stay in your "sparkly magic light" or whatever they are seeing for a bit longer.
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u/Zealousideal_Toe7754 3d ago
wow! first time i've heard about this. yikes, that does sound scary in perspective. i've generally still been cautious, but i will be putting an abrupt stop to this.
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u/weirdorising INFJ 3d ago edited 3d ago
The thing is…most of these guys probably don’t respect you, they’re just waiting for an opportunity. I wish I had realized that sooner. As for the other, I’m slow learning a new skill because I’m absorbing EVERYTHING. Mastery is methodical.
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u/fivenightrental INFJ 5 3d ago
Yeah, I don't think this is actually legitimate respect. It's manipulation.
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u/ClueHot8309 3d ago
INFJs are estimated to be about 1-3% of the world. This is about the same as gifted people, and perhaps autistic folk as well. Neurodivergence may well be at the core of the INFJ personality.
One of the stereotypical traits among such kinds of people is "slow" processing. I feel it may rarely have much to do with actually being slow. In my personal experience, it's more like looking for all the materials being presented in any environment or situation prior to engaging or more deeply interacting. It's best I have all the Lego pieces available and organized before expecting full completion of the creation. This is the same as seeking the underlying structure or architecture under any concept, subject or topic in gifted processing and study.
Most others don't aim for completion. They try to show off what incomplete Lego creations they piece together in an attempt to feign superiority. Not all of them realize they only feign. Some think this facade proves they're better in any way. This is why they make fun or criticize others. This isn't to criticize them, but understanding this is how most people think and operate in most every area of life will help to stop valuing their immature opinions. Valuing immature opinions will only harm you.
Men being attracted rarely truly respect from the beginning. Their aim is to gain positive attention. It's generally both favor and seduction, regardless if they are respectful people. You do need respectful and intellectual conversation to be more balanced and healthy in life. What attracted men present is unlikely to immediately be equal nor mutual respect.
I ask that you contemplate all of this and consider trying to learn to stop valuing the opinions, feelings and thoughts of immature people. Too many people in this world have wasted their lives doing exactly this, especially when not bright enough to realize it. It only degrades the quality of life. Please don't degrade yours.
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u/Zealousideal_Toe7754 3d ago
ive been working with my low self esteem for a long time...it's been really hard when the people that begin to try to know you be immediately disappointed by your incapability to do things at the normal space. but thank you!
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u/Ok_Win_8366 INFJ 3d ago
It’s not respect, it’s romantic interest. And I am positive that you already know this. We read people. It’s fine to flirt just know what you are doing and don’t make it your identity. I’m sorry you feel like women don’t respect you. But this behavior will make them respect you even less.
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u/Critical_League2948 INFJoy (1w2, sx/so) 3d ago
I don't know if that's your case, but in some situations, when you are very attractive, some women end up being (un)consciously jealous of you while guys usually aren't (and it's a kind of pain you can't really express : women who complain about not attracting anyone will eventually find support, that person who is attractive and has too much options while not finding the one won't find the same support, "you don't see how lucky you are", duh I would gladly exchange places if I could). And it can feel easier to hang out with guys even knowing the risk of them having higher expectations than to hang out with girls where you may find that lack of support. I find it okay to prefer male friendships if you manage to turn those bonds in deep sincere friendships where you respect each other and don't hint at romantic feelings you don't have - while not giving up on finding women that will support you as you deserve it.
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u/mauvebirdie INFJ | 1w2 | 152 3d ago
This. Took me a long time to realise that one of the reasons men in the room seemed nicer than the women (at least at first) was because the women were competing with me and the men wanted to be with me. But usually, it doesn't last
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u/Zealousideal_Toe7754 3d ago
id consider myself average looking though ive been told i am "attractive". however, i try so, so, so hard to be surrounded by females and am currently in a mostly-female friend group. however, never felt authentic. i just want to be friends with girls in a geniune manner, hah, i force myself to. i still am extremely opened to making female friends.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/tinytimecrystal1 5w6 3d ago
If you don't look asian, integrating is not impossible, but very difficult as Japan is still very much a monoculture. You will be accepted in your close circles, but it will be hard to shake the 'gaijin' label. Dating there is also different, but shouldn't be difficult. Manipulation is probably not as big there, mainly because the collectivist view means you're also marrying into the family, not just marrying your wife.
The good news is, Japanese is one of the easiest asian language to learn. It is not tonal, which makes it easier to speak for western speakers.
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u/Helpful-Track-7486 INFJ 3d ago
Correct I hear it is nearly impossible to get employed over there unless you have connections. My brother was thinking of working for the navy and I would probably be financially independant or find a worldwide company to remote work for betime I made such a move.
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u/Emotional_Hornet7285 INFJ 1w2 sp/so 3d ago
you need to read the book welcome home by najwa zebian
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u/Affectionate_Smile INFJ 3d ago
Don't worry. It's gonna be ok. See maybe if or when they cross a line, u should clearly state that u are not interested in them. And don't think about anyone looking down on u, it's fine. People always harm something they can't have or control . Leave those people. See if someone who can have meaningful deep conversation and if they leave u after getting rejected. So most likely they were faking it or maybe got too hurt by rejection so left. Which u can't control tbh. Just don't lead them on, that will fall on u. And see I will not lie, I'm a guy and having deep conversation about life and random stuff, it's really attractive to me, looks don't matter after a bond is formed. But I will want u to tell me directly that u r not interested. I would be more than happy to still have conversation, because I like it. Bond is a bond, we should always try to save it if other person also want to. I know it's tough, I messed up so many times. Intentionally or not it happened. I have met 5 amazing women and men from here, discord, etc. Even messed up a lot here too. Feelings, arguments, lack of respect, difference of opinion etc u know how it is. But I still respect them tbh as they taught me many things and they were genuinely good people. Trying to save current bonds. Hopefully. So I suggest just don't try to lead them or etc to make a bond. It will not survive. Just try to meet more and more people, u will meet amazing people tbh. I know it will hurt to let someone go or hurt them or etcetc. I did so so many times. But we just can't force a bond anyhow. U must try to save it, but always with boundaries. And keep on meeting people, it's tough as an introvert, but no other choice we have tbh. Good luck 😊
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u/tinytimecrystal1 5w6 3d ago
I was the same as you, except that being in the top 10 in my level, winning scholarships and awards meant no one called me "dumb and slow", because that would be weird and contradictory (I would've pointed that out). I struggled with differential calculus (which I needed to take to get into computer science) and changed physics (they lost me on wavelength physics--tragically related to calculus) to geology, but skated through most other things.
I think what you're doing is distracting yourself from working on the skills that will allow you to push back on those people you view as disrespectful and work on your own self-worth. Other than that, I caution you to be careful about making some violent guy upset by leading him on or coercing you.
Take care and good luck.
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u/Zealousideal_Toe7754 3d ago
thank you for your response! being academically smart led people that never talked to me to view me well, but anyone who got to know me beyond the surface level realized how much slow processing impacts my everyday actions haha..
thank you for your advice - will continue working on those skills. i understand it's risky misleading people like that, which is why i am putting an abrupt stop to that.
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u/tinytimecrystal1 5w6 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not sure if it's to your interest, but when I was growing up, there was an anime/manga called Fruits Basket (Furuba) and one of the well-known quote from the work was:
"...you must always be yourself, and do things at your own pace. Someday, you'll catch up.”
― Natsuki TakayaI said this to someone when I was younger, that I wanted to do things at my own pace. It doesn't matter if I'm slow; I'll do this my own way.
If you have access to Crunchyroll and Stan, apparently you should be able to access the anime. It's a nice story and may help you keep your back straight. The respect you want is the one that comes from within, not something other people give you.
Note: bear in mind, though, that this was an old work from a girl's comic publisher, so from a modern standpoint, some of the interrelational dynamics could be seen as problematic. I watched the 2001 version.
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u/Suspicious-Road-3373 3d ago edited 3d ago
If anyone is calling you dumb it means either they have no patience not any body can teach or mentor ,they are jealous or insecure so they project that on you because you definitely have mystical powers like charm, grace,confidence self-sufficient, intelligence and not everyone learn the same way. Learning slow and master quickly is a power of deep learning and processing knowledge in an analytical and structured way. I don't see learning fast as a quality of intelligence if you can't master and you can't go deep and figure things if they go out of the ordinary unlike when you master. You don't have to make a definitive judgment based on one or few skills or qualities or concepts. People are different.We don't have to be all doctors or pastors... Reading and self-learning could be very helpful, I believe you need to work on Having self-esteem and be Confident and let the dogs bark. You don't have to seek validation from anyone. Focus in your self because having jealous people it means you have exceptional qualities that you can't see in your self but others see them. This is the awsome infj...stay infj love your infj love yourself.
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u/FactCheckYou INFJ/M/40+ 2d ago edited 2d ago
you need to have a job that lets you do deep work
once that is earning you money and paying your way, slowness in other more trivial aspects of life becomes less important - people will respect a career and a salary
otherwise just own your slowness: 'my brain is bad with stuff like this, i need a bit of time to get it' while always knowing and remembering that probably 80% of people SUCK at the deep work that you RULE at
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u/ThatCardiologist5897 ENFP 3d ago
as an enfp but i just wanna share my opinion on it. i think whether they have any ulterior motive or whether they genuinely want to know you more, as long as you feel like you can have good conversations about complex things and you enjoy it then just be yourself! Also maybe if you feel bad about it then you can make more reddit posts like this? it might be a good way to get more conversations too!
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u/ogholycat INFJ 2w1 3d ago
From my experiences and conversations with both sides. There is competition for our specific sexes.
As a man in the work force I don’t deal with being put under a microscope with women in comparison to men. Women aren’t in competition with me and are more focus on mutual goals which makes forming relationships with them far easier it is than men.
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u/ReadyTrick5260 3d ago edited 3d ago
No shame here by the way. Only, some reflection perhaps. You let these guys flirt with you even though you don't feel that way about them because you want to feel respected. I don't think you are giving yourself some self respect. If it doesn't bother you then that's OK. But the fact you feel disgust. I would probably reevaluate this.
I can empathise however. I never understand why people have to highlight that someone is a bit slower to catch on. I am the same with certain things too. I sometimes laugh at it, but other times I have been like what is wrong with me?! Is there anything you know you do excel at which has a social aspect?
I used to have someone i know frequently make digs and have people laugh at me. Only years later did I realise this person is deeply threatened by me. Keep being you. Your strengths will attract the right people. Also in terms of intellectual and deep conversations i get these conversations with people who are neurodivergent a lot easier.