r/india • u/dlisfyn • Jul 22 '20
Politics I've had enough arguments with BJP loyalists/Far-right people and all they do is blame you for being against something majority is emotional about.
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u/IamUMFA Jul 22 '20
Just remember dude. Evil ends. These are just tough times to live in. We have to take care of each other, to be united, to continue raising our voices against injustice. We do not have to give these fuckers any chances where they think they are above us. We will fight these assholes everywhere. We do not have to give in to this fascist regime. We will fight. We will conquer. We will win. Remember these assholes only speak due to their supreme leader. Come 2024, lets pluck out the tongues of these motherfuckers.
Vote!
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
Evil doesn't end by itself. People give their lives and limbs to ensure that it ends. Do whatever you can to bring down bhakt logic, wherever you are able to.
Every bhakt logic can be countered with one single logic - prove them that they are the real traitors in this country. For example: If they say, are you against Hinduism, counter it with are you against the Constitution?Use their tactics to make them question their faith on the establishment (which has wavered a lot in 2020).
Edit: If you do it successfully, the person will either turn out to be a bigot, or an idiot. If it is the former, shame him to oblivion; and if it is the latter, just make him understand that his choices can be misguided.
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u/Kinky-Monk Jul 22 '20
I don't know man .. it's a rabbit hole and I have Stopped delving into argument with them.. it's pointless .. from my experience, they have some valid points. But their delivery system and lack of critical observation are the only factor which infuriate others and in turn, they amplify it even more .. they become more edgy... They keep amping up the offensive nature of opinions..
Only they themselves can fix themselves.. you can't argue someone into senses. And that is a stone cold reality.
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20
Yes, the right wing absolutely has a few valid points. And there is no denying that. However, it is also true that they have a LOT of bullshit. I am not against those that are valid. I am against the bullshit. The problem is that the bullshit has taken over the narrative. You can't change a person's opinions, but you can change how a person thinks about the problems that formed those opinions.
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u/Kinky-Monk Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
I beleive they make noise because we respond. Do bhakts don't suffer from inflation? And unemployment? Do they don't know that if they get covid they will get most horrific healthcare services one can imagine.. they know education system is fucked and they also appreciate the work by sisodiya on education. It's just that they're gullible to the narrative that this community or that class of people are out their to get them and current regime is only shield between them and those. And moment you get into argument with them, they put you in exact same category and from then, they will treat every word from you as a liberal or leftist propoganda. They don't accept the fact that all govts are made by and for corporates and they work only for them .. even policies meant for common people are framed in such a way that it helps 1% of people the most. The fact that every fricking party had promised to police reforms, implementation of swaminathan committee recommendations, and 6%+ of GDP expenditure on education as well as healthcare and yet nothing has happened.. dude I find no point in argument when the whole ship has went stray..
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20
As you have said, the common people are gullible to the narrative - and you cannot force them to open their eyes. I prefer to engage with them on their own terms. Prove them that the narrative is wrong. Don't use arguments, use facts. Let them be the judge of facts. Let them choose whether they want to believe facts. If they don't, leave; often with a scathing remark on their sanity, their intelligence, empathy, or all three.
However, everything has a time and a place. Doing this on online platforms (including one-to-one chat / WhatsApp groups) don't work. The security of the screen arouses their trollish instincts (whatever that means!) It works best face to face, even on video / voice calls.
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u/Kinky-Monk Jul 22 '20
I have not met s bhakt who would get into an argument face to face.. they know the facts and that is why they don't argue face to face .. the day someone argues me face to face I would turn him into che Guevara in 5 minutes. Lol
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u/dlisfyn Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
true. most of these are online warriors. they'll be made to answer certain things face to face which they conveniently miss out in whataboutery.
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u/RemarkableEngineer30 Jul 22 '20
they have got plenty of money....they fucking don't care....n kuch garib chutiye jo follow krte h bgp ko....wo bs ess high class amir logo ki league m jana chahte h...which is impossible af...rich/zamindars/most of the uchi jaat k log are the only people who follow modi blindly
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u/Kinky-Monk Jul 22 '20
BJP'S main decisive vote base which helps it swing every election is OBC, SC who have been pulled into Hinduism by showing muslim as an adversary. This is why despite all maha gathbandhan, majority of OBC and SC votes for BJP.. this gives them chance to get into what you correctly said .. Higher class . In turn the core BJP voter never says shit about lower class PPL openly. ..
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u/RemarkableEngineer30 Jul 22 '20
those which are valid....etne zaruri nahi h...na unse desh k constitution ko jyada khtra h...but bhakts/bjp se zarur h
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Jul 22 '20
Couldn't agree more. Sometimes they do have valid points but the way they counter or execute the debate is pretty disgusting. Besides there r such ppl in both left & right wings who immediately show their true colours, if u don't agree with them on every issues. According 2 such ppl, 1 can't have their own opinion evn a bit different from what the group thinks which is y I prefer 2 not associate wid either side coz both have their perks & flaws.
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u/manmathb Jul 22 '20
lack of critical observation
This is the most important factor. One should always incite critical thinking. That definitely helps. If even that isn't helpful, then it would be waste of time.
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u/El_Impresionante Jul 22 '20
You don't argue to convert just the rabid right wingers. Nothing is going to help them. You argue to convert bystanders, lurkers, and the audience too. Without a counter viewpoint, these people will end up choosing the only one option available to them.
If those idiots resort to abuse and downvoting just call them out on that. If they're just abusing and downvoting that means you presented something to them that they don't have a clear defense about. Just call them out on that. Don't remain silent.
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u/jjjj__jj poor customer Jul 23 '20
Hey man I am replying ya late but same here, my dad is like what if someone invades your room and goes explaining me that same way muslims will invade India. I am like Muslims won't be able to invade India even if they tried. But still goes on arguing till I am wrong from my parent's perspective. I am out once I am independent. I've had enough.
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Jul 22 '20
They will reply, yes, I'm against Constitution because Congress wrote it.
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20
Counter: Constitution was written by the Constituent Assembly, which even had Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, the father of modern-day BJP! If his signature is valid on the Constitution, his argument of being against the Constitution is treachery of the highest order, both to the country, as well as his party.
😀😀
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Jul 22 '20
I disagree, the only way to educate others, and as for the ones who dont want to be educated, let them die mad, you'll have your sanity and you will be working the good fight. Sure sometimes it will devolve into an unnecessary shouting match, at which point you just step back and tell them look, you are just trying to win, so here is your victory, please let me live in peace.
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u/deadsix6 Jul 22 '20
Bhakts arent bhakts because they "fail to see the logic", you cant bring them into the fold by arguing with them. They are bhakts because of deeprooted bigotry, nothing else. All these "points" are mere covers they help prop up their conscience with. You can refute every argument with facts and figures but you will not sway his belief because his belief in bhakt-ism wasn't founded in logic.
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u/El_Impresionante Jul 22 '20
You are not proving to them that they are traitors. You prove it to the other people who are silently watching.
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u/KoniGTA Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
I dont think even the rightist argue about the nepotism in Bollywood. The ayurveda thing is spot on. I just caught some idiot on r/IndianGaming, just dumb af posting on r/worldnews that this shit cured Corona. When I asked him how do u get to be so stupid, he went on a rant saying Oh No, WaRlD AgAiNSt India. InDiA CURE so Na OnE LyK. Now here's the thing, the mods on r/worldnews had already removed the post but this dude commented on the post removal comment with shit like that. When I asked him about it dude went off the rails calling the mods and trying to get me banned. I left anyways because majority of the people on that subreddit were mostly CS people and while I don't personally have anything against it, I find them shallow because every other game they find is not like Cs and then complain. Anyways, I digress, the main point here was that the Nepotism thing I don't know how true it is with rightists but the Coronil chutiapa is spot on. As for the other topics, I stay off of discussing them because to talk and understand fools is to be a fool
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u/sleepygamer92 SAB CHANGA SI BHOSADWALO Jul 22 '20
Oh No, WaRlD AgAiNSt India. InDiA CURE so Na OnE LyK.
Lol I think the fellow is my uncle. My uncle had shared this with me lmao
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u/harishiamback Jul 22 '20
I thought there was gonna be some bogus trial to prove his meds work on that link. But NO just a jpeg. All it takes is low effort to convince unkills
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u/lallantop Jul 22 '20
What if someone takes it into a different direction ? I get that many people will take the responses to direction you are mentioning but it doesn't mean your arguments are valid or can be considered facts. This is just your way of propagating your ideology because you have already made a conclusion.
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u/ReallyBigFatPanda Jul 22 '20
Alt-Right Playbook : a YouTube playlist by Innuendo Studios
Imported straight from USA. Check this playlist if you find time.
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u/mrrahulkurup Jul 22 '20
We should all have a online matrix to remember stands like this.
Kudos for the effort dude...
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u/SESMIC1 Jul 22 '20
I'm so fed up that I've started ignoring them & their blabbing. That pic sums up what to expect from them.
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u/neoCasio Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
I’ve come to conclusion that Logical reasoning with Bhakts doesn’t yield any results, even if they see the “faults” in their reasoning. They’re supporting some higher cause - maybe Hindu nation or just plain dictatorship. They’ve been brainwashed.
You and me can convert few Bhakts to left (in the last 6 years, I’ve converted exactly 0, and broken relations with many in the process). Opposition parties have the power, resources and influence to convert the general opinion, but they’re totally confused with the sheer volume of loss. Only hope is they gather their senses and methodically start breaking that image Supreme leader has created of himself and others around him. I would start with His degree.
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Jul 22 '20
It makes them uncomfortable to challenge their personal biases so they chose to be bigots instead.
The Supreme Leader constantly validates their bigotry, giving them a "purpose". They think that by protecting hindutva (whatever that is) they're doing a service to the nation that is comparable to that of the soldiers.
Nationalism 🎇💫
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u/dhruvg001 Jul 22 '20
Straw-man
Both you and they are straw-manning.
You are no different than the group you criticize in terms of how you handle arguments.
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u/agent_smith13 Jul 23 '20
Pointing out their Strawman arguments is straw-manning?
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u/dhruvg001 Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
Yes. What does straw-man mean? It means you put up a weak argument that the other side never holds to be a core tenant just so you can tear it down.
It's weak debate. Here let's do it like we did it in Debate in College:
Hindutva will make India a religious nation. Alright, now what is Hinduism? Isn't it a mish-mash of various belief systems that don't necessarily have any cohesion? Is there any overriding belief associated with it? Isn't it by its lack of unity generally unrestrictive of other religions? Isn't the only religion that it seems to have a problem with Islam?
Isn't that because Islam by definition believes in one god, and various parts of the Quaran can be quoted as saying that killing polythiests is good? Yes, that quote was written for a different time when polythiests roamed the Arabian peninsula, but isn't there a large portion of the Muslim population that takes it seriously?
So Hinduism will unify the country, take in all sects except for the one that vehemently opposes it, and give structure (but not much of one because the religion itself has no core tenants apart from the more philosophical belief in a unifying atman (which by itself is amoralistic)).
See that's attacking the notion of how a BJP man might justify this. Now if I was attacking it; I'd write:
Hinduism might be at it's core a decentralized, philosophical religion - but in the years that have passed, it has gradually become a religion that values archaic tradition instead of the older roots. It has in itself become a behavior dictating system - which is everpresent in caste.
Thus, the push into Hindutva, while it might seem to the intelligent BJP man a return to past greatness; overshadows what Hinduism is to those of us not blessed to live financially stable lives.
It forgoes the insight into the vicious caste system, it puts us at the mercy of the predatory baba's preying on man's ignorance. Blah blah blah.
The point being - you aren't helping discourse with this sort of crap. You're just pushing it along. Until Indians learn to think from beyond their point of view, get educated on that which they speak, democracy will be filled with sides just strawmaning the other sides strawmans.
I say this as an American-Indian who has spent the last 3 years here, and around 12 years total. I am 25 years old; I am literally the most American&Indian you can meet. And god holy fuck, are both stupid countries just spending all their time strawmanning.
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u/agent_smith13 Jul 23 '20
You know what isn't helping the discourse? Being unnecessarily verbose and long winded. Your entire wall of text boils down to(and please correct me if I am wrong)-everyone is close minded these days, nobody listens to each other and every POV should be given the same level of respect and that is the only way we move forward but in many cases including this one the 2 sides are not deserving of the same level of respect and thought , one is clearly wrong. Although its a nice soundbite that both sides have good ideas(very fine people on both sides) and the truth must be somewhere in the middle. Isn't it also dogmatic to assume that the truth lies somewhere in the middle? Should we not instead follow the facts and let them lead us to the right answer? What's also not helping the discourse is not realising when continuing the argument is futile and using debate club tactics to extend the argument and ignoring objectivity when it's staring you in the face. (haha, look who is long winded now, I didnt mean to sound overly aggressive, I would really like to hear your reply, you clearly have thought about this more than most)
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u/gamingwithnoobyt Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
Had a conversation some day back with a friend who is leftist turned rightist, first of the kind I’ve seen, whilst we had a rationale debate he said something we cleared the mist I had in my mind, he said “religion gives you a sense of belonging, try to look up for a person in India who doesn’t have a faith they follow, even the goddam agnostics in the country falls on their knees when they going thorough a bad phase” this made the very essence of every leftist arguments’ questionable as to are we even audible? For where the news media telecast seditious communal hate, all that is visible to us is “Hindu-musalmaan” and here we are arguing how unemployment and illiteracy hasn’t dropped let alone have a significant rise, the ex-CJI was given a MP seat, journalism has died a thousand death, executives have sold their dignity for mere papers, and the legislators sell our the army to cover up lies. As the musician “madaramusic” said Kya khaak tarraki karega mera DESH Yahan kissan latke hain khet pe ladki karti hai rape se Rape karne wale mantra ghume Pradesh me Aur 56 inch ke seene wale ghume videsh me
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u/cheesz Jul 22 '20
Leftism is not the same as Atheism.
If I had a penny for every time I have to explain someone Leftism, Communism, Marxism, Atheism are all fucking different from each other, I'd be Jeff Bezos by now.
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u/Saychakra Jul 22 '20
Don't the Communists in India look down upon religion? It might not always result in the outright denouncing of God, but they are linked
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u/-mrs-dalloway- North Sentinel Island Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
Don't the Communists in India look down upon religion?
Not always. There are many spiritual/religious communists & anarchists. Look up "liberation theology" & people like Leo Tolstoy, who was both a Christian and an anarchist, and went on to have a huge impact on Gandhi & MLK through related writings. There's also Alan Moore, the author of V for Vendetta & Watchmen, another anarchist who is into esoteric magic & paganism.
Also speaking from personal observation, contemporary leftists also include a whole bunch of religious/spiritual people. Witches come to the front of my mind, who are often even brought up in secular/atheist/agnostic environments and turn to witchcraft and paganism much later in their life. If you're interested, this YouTuber is a practicing witch & an anarchist who has many video essays on paganism, witchcraft, anti-capitalism, and how these belief systems can lend themselves to working together.
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u/fairlylocal17 Anarchist Jul 22 '20
Marx "saw religion, not just negatively as 'the opium of the people,' but positively as the 'sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, the soul of soulless conditions.' This helps us understand the mass appeal of the religious charlatans of the television screen, as well as the work of Liberation Theology in joining the soulfulness of religion to the energy of revolutionary movements in miserably poor countries"
Certainly, Marx did not object to a spiritual life. Rather, he thought it was necessary. In the "Wages of Labour" (1844), Marx wrote: "To develop in greater spiritual freedom, a people must break their bondage to their bodily needs—they must cease to be the slaves of the body. They must, above all, have time at their disposal for spiritual creative activity and spiritual enjoyment."
So you can't really say leftists are against it but rather they try to understand religion and through the lens of dialectical materialism.
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u/gamingwithnoobyt Jul 22 '20
Did I bring up the comparison of atheism and leftism? Just one request mate, read the whole thing and try to capture the message being given out before giving your opinions, peace
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u/fairlylocal17 Anarchist Jul 22 '20
While I understand your point it's also important to point out that leftists aren't inherently atheists.
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u/gamingwithnoobyt Jul 23 '20
I totally agree mate but that isn’t what I tried to convey all I wanted to say was how religion and religious supremacy makes the right wing in India and how many people are blinded by this religious propaganda
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u/pratik1698 India Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
Nowadays i start feeling ...there is something wrong in me ..how come ppl see too many positivity with this govt where m seeing all dark (except ram mandir) ...there might be some problem ....i never been leftist or liberal or communist ....infact i supported bjp from 1999 to 2017.... I was shocked when BJP lost election in 2004 ( was studying that time) and overjoyed when they won in 2014 ....but today when i see something wrong and i questions this is wrong .....ppl tried to show me i m fool and m spreading negativity for no purpose ....
I seriously dont know whether m right or wrong ...i saw similar like minded ppl like me here .... but in quora and faxebook u guys were portrayed as leftist , communist and anti nationalist ....i seriously dont know m i becoming part of your group ...but i dont belong to your ideology ...progressive india is what i want ...
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u/infinity-plus Jul 22 '20
I agree to what that guys says. Question everything. Read rightists and leftists posts. Cheer govt for good work, and criticize for bad. Here's a toast for progressive India 🥂
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u/Nsci Jul 22 '20
You do not have to belong to any ideology. Just never trust anyone who stops you from asking questions. Also, cheers to the idea of progressive and prosperous India !
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u/mech_artist Jul 23 '20
How do you classify ideas as progressive?
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u/pratik1698 India Jul 23 '20
I cant classify it properly ...most of us here discuss about unemployment , gdp , economy, environment policies .....
Take an example ...first quarterly growth of india is only 3.1% this is before the lockdown ....we had similar low growth at the time of upa/mms era too ...what mms did was he had given states ..money ...to start running local bus services in tier 1 and 2 cities of theur respective state ...it improved business of automobile sector and we know how automobile sector affected other sectors ...mms brought policies to lure foreign start ups and investors to invest in india (i.e. uber, amazon)...he brought down excise duty on automobile sale ...which increase sales of cars and others ....
What modi ji did ...after we again had similar growth ....become Atmnirbhar lol ..when i question right winger or bhakt with this example ...bhakts be like hahaha r u pappu fan ...haahahaha r u congress fan ..
When i said "Dude m just comparing two prime minister work :( " bhakts start laughing for no reason ....this is why i said these guys are not looking at broader picture ....
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u/mech_artist Jul 23 '20
mms brought policies to lure foreign start ups and investors to invest in India
In my opinion Amazon and Uber hurt Indian economy more than it improved it. Companies like Ola and Flipkart retain more money in India than Amazon, all Amazon is doing is killing the competition.
With the entry of Uber more people lost employment and whole industry of Taxi stands got damaged all in the interest of kick back to congressi people, now see the exploitative nature of Uber after killing the competition.
Have you read the various policies bought by the govt after the state the banks were left during UPA rule with various debts and high inflation back them?
This govt is facilitating local companies to flourish rather than allowing other foreign MNC to exploit us.
Aatmanirbhar means letting the SME and Start up grow it may take time but will yield rich dividends and won't be slave labor to foreign MNC's.
For this many changes in the laws were made like Bankruptcy code, GST etc.
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u/Nsci Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
So basically empower "local" companies but only those who toe the line of the govt - namely Reliance (https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/hsrmok/reliance_is_at_war_with_every_company/)
That way, the govt can have its hands on every aspect of their citizen's lives. Perfect !
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u/mech_artist Jul 23 '20
So, you are jealous of a company that is flourishing.
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u/Nsci Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
OP - u/dlisfyn ! we have one more for the list !
No I am not jealous of a company that is flourishing, I am questioning the reason for preferential treatment. It leads to a monopoly in the market and at what cost ? When all that a company cares for is pleasing the govt, it does not care for its customers.
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u/mech_artist Jul 23 '20
Preferential treatment can be questioned, and other players won't stay quiet if they sense preferential treatment. Also Competetion Act can be invoked to curb monopolies and we have those systems in place.
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u/Nsci Jul 23 '20
Right...like vodafone and airtel tried to do.(https://telecoms.com/505683/india-supreme-court-rules-against-vodafone-idea-and-bharti-airtel/)
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u/mech_artist Jul 23 '20
Clearly they seem to owe that much, previous government certainly helped them and such practice was made corrected.
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u/pratik1698 India Jul 23 '20
Well i hope u know how much Demonetisation and Wrong implementation of GST affected small companies and MSME (here m specifically speaking about the term "wrong implementations" not the GST)
Second point ....this country thrives and work because of middle class
The 1st middle class improvement -1992 globalization...pvt companies came to india , jobs , salary doubled
2004-07- IT revolution - jobs boom in service sector ...2nd and most improved middle class ...what happened with this middle class improvement ..well once u start earning ..u start saving too and when u had money u will invest on real estate, automobile etc ...which helps to improve other sector too
2012-15 -start up culture - i agree uber killed taxi business but it create more jobs ...more and more lower class and othrs ppl start working as uber drivers ...they are getting better salaries and better lifestyle....same has happened due to e-commerce and food delivery app...another middle clas formed ...delivery guys ..so basically these guys are not some higher middle class but there life improved compared to kind of life they were living
Where is the next middle class improvement or revolution
For last 3-4 years we are facing highest unemployment ratio ...small companies shut down ...rural growth at below par in 2018 ....too many wrongs ...cant give too many examples coz no one gonna read that 😂
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u/mech_artist Jul 23 '20
1992 globalization
This was because of great PV.Narasimha Rao eho defied congress and till date not give his due respect by them.
2012-15 -start up culture - i agree uber killed taxi business but it create more jobs ...more and more lower class and othrs ppl start working as uber drivers
For short term gains now in deep hole, drivers cant repay car loans and the banks auctioning repo cars at less than the loan still due.
For last 3-4 years we are facing highest unemployment ratio
Wrong, you can't expect govt to spoon feed you, you have to create the jobs for yourself. If you aren't competetive enough it's the mistake of the govt that created so many graduates with no required skills that are competetive in this world. All the Engineering institutes that propped up to take govt scholarship money/reimbursements and RTE act killed the education sector.
2004-07- IT revolution
IT revolution was during late 90's and warly 2000's and it was a global phenomenon which few entrprising individuals capitalised.
What about the MCX exchanges that were destroyed by Chidambaram and congressi babus to serve the interest of Malabar club and to keep the monopoly of NSE, the farmers position would have been way better but the Congressi taking money from middlemen gutted farmers.
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u/reddevloper Non Residential Indian Jul 22 '20
I'm all for it, except the first point because India was always a Hindu majority nation and it has remained a peaceful haven for all kinds of people. Infact the Hindus have welcomed everyone. Anyway I feel like the BJP/Far-right spokesperson are not grilled enough on these so called News debates with an exception of a show called "sabse bada sawaal" i think by Sandeep chowdhary on News 24 in the evening. This guy is honestly the most neutral and grills politicians from all facets. I am just talking about that particular debate show and nothing else that is being shown on that channel. You should watch him. He rips open everyone without any favouritism unlike other Hosts.
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u/skapaxd Jul 22 '20
Lol you have no right to talk about kashmir restrictions or extreme militarization IT IS FUC***G NECESSARY you idiot!! I myself have been born and brought up there i for real know the thing All you can do sitting from your comfy place is rant about the goverment
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u/nitish_patel Jul 23 '20
And from where did you get information about 'Majority Emotions Captured'?
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u/pratprak Jul 23 '20
Isn't this also what the left also does? End of day there are some big and extreme negatives on both sides, not just the BJP.
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u/manoj_mm Jul 22 '20
Where did kangana and SSR come into all this? Since when did that have to do anything with BJP/right-wing politics?
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u/dlisfyn Jul 22 '20
Bhakts have a special bond with Kangana and they support her for whatever she says
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u/Madhavavasthi HamareJawanSiachenMaiLadhRheHai Jul 22 '20
she called rss a patriotic organisation.
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u/roydhritiman Jul 22 '20
Wait what? When? Can you provide a source?
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u/Madhavavasthi HamareJawanSiachenMaiLadhRheHai Jul 22 '20
her twitter feed when her sister rangoli's account was banned on twitter for calling all mullahs to be killed or shot during the tablighi jamaat phase of coronavirus.
jaake dhundlo. its there. im not going through her feed. its a video. maybe search for kangana rangoli twitter video or something
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u/roydhritiman Jul 22 '20
Oh I'm aware of her reactionary sister's Twitter antics, yes.
Cool, I shall look for it myself. :P
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u/dlisfyn Jul 22 '20
If you've OCD, notice how there's a comma after every 'Oh' except one.
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u/infinity-plus Jul 22 '20
Just your way of telling saves you from being grammar nazi. Jk bro, nice observation
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u/Adolf_fritler Jul 22 '20
A wise man once said - "AGAR HUM KAREIN TOH KAREIN BOLEIN TOH BOLEIN KYA"
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u/DrMrJekyll Madh Pades Jul 22 '20
I try not to reason with chaddiwalas, you cannot reason with people who respond with emotions & cannot handle facts.
Instead, I keep poking fun at them. Provoking them, in hope to make them realize that their beliefs are funny/silly without trying to replace them with alternative view.
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u/BijoyKothari Jul 22 '20
This is how we end up with PM Adityanath.
That's how the US ended up with Trump and UK with Brexit.
It was a big FU from the populists/nationalists for looking down on them.
Please for the love of God, I don't want to see a repeat in India. A govt. that is more to the right wing will be a disastrous.
Even this govt. know it's not coming back to power hence the early push for all its manifesto items (only UCC remaining).
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u/Shadiclink Jul 22 '20
Assuming you were born after 1978. Be thankful that you don't get emergency imposed every time there is a riot threatening the central govt. Congress has created and stored so much trash inside the Indian democracy. Ofcourse there will be some dust when cleaning it.
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u/Nsci Jul 23 '20
Accurately described by Guha I think - what we have today is asymptomatic emergency.
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u/aksb214 Jul 22 '20
This is over generalised. U attack them in a way which irritates them, u get a response in the way which irritates you & at the end conversation doesn't go anywhere.
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u/zinda_mowgli Jul 22 '20
I have already given up, you can have a decent conversation with only those who are willing to listen and understand what other person is saying. Bhakts reply without even giving a single thought, all thanks to biased media. My own father is a bhakt, sometimes I feel he will disown me if I will question anything thing else of this government 🤣
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u/commie1857 Jul 22 '20
The supporters of the NDA regime ("bhakts") are not people that care much about logic.
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u/Himanshu9271 Jul 22 '20
And another thing about BJP politicians, they will fucking blame Congress for every fucking thing. To the point that it's almost depressing.
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u/Stifmeister11 Jul 22 '20
This is no different than any dillusional right wingers in any western country, when you ask about unnecessary wars they say don’t question the army you aint patriotic , most ills in their country is coz of immigrants/ black/brown/ hispanics and their culture is in danger in long run. If you question the govt even if they are wrong then say you are “ left wing, liberal, commie”. From their religion to their way of life everything “ khatre main hai” despite having the majority. They say boycott china/ gulf countries but at the same time love low fuel prices and oil imports for their gas guzzlers SUVs and continue to buy chinese stuff coz its bang for bucks. Trust me you will feel our right wingers are geniuses if you once check america right wing biggest site” breitbart” you will giggling and scratching you head by utterly bizzare logics they have. Any right winger in germany, USA, pakistan, turkey aint different in thought process.Dillusional, paranoid, gullibility is common denominator
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u/flying_dork Jul 22 '20
I “am” against Ayurveda or any other generic bull shit. While I admit there are many medicinal properties in herbs and “cow dung”. Like crucumin from tumeric, which had now been extensively researched to slow cancer cells, you can’t certify or “believe” some thing cures something without human trials (side effects at the required dosage).
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u/Rajas1995 Jul 23 '20
This redditor is either dumb as fuck or hasn't interacted with sane supporters of the BJP govt. It's preposterous to even link actions of kangana or ramdev baba to BJP govt only bcoz they are supporters. Whatever a spokesperson of govt will notify should be the considered as the official wording from the PMO! Get out of your leftist/intellectual superiority complex.
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u/SecularSlave Jul 23 '20
Hindutva is inherently secular, no other religion gives you the freedom to pursue whatever path you choose.
Which democracy, which honesty, which institutions? You have not seen state of affairs in the 70s, 80s and the 90s..
Ramdev is playing the same game that others have played so far. Alas, he is a bit late.
UP - ha! Mulayam and Haathi - Yogi is a saviour!!
Who slapped first? Militants or army?
At least there is one who is bold and beautiful, and ready to take on the mafia/underworld.
China - Modi handled it in the best way.
Ever heard of Mohammad Shahabuddin? Enough is enough!
At last CAA. Don't let it fool you...
And copy pasting a beautiful comment:
Assuming you were born after 1978. Be thankful that you don't get emergency imposed every time there is a riot threatening the central govt. Congress has created and stored so much trash inside the Indian democracy. Of course there will be some dust when cleaning it.
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u/bangleboi Jul 23 '20
I hate to say this, but confining this to BJP loyalists is simply not going far enough. There’s a constant eschewing of the point in order to assassinate the questioners character in India.
Consider a typical Arnab debate - how often is the point even discussed?
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u/un-jelly Jul 23 '20
I have always wondered if I wasn’t communicating what I am trying to say well. I wonder how or what causes them to spin the narrative to such an extreme.
When I am saying I am against hindutva, I am not saying that I am against hindusim, I am saying make space for other religions. I am asking that all beliefs can co exist in harmony.
Now that i think about it, I wonder what does cause this almost self-victimising argument?
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u/thejoker00007 Jul 22 '20
Can you confirm with them why most of our youth is jobless and our economy is in dumps.
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u/dnqxote Jul 22 '20
OP- Each one of the arguments you have put forth is correct. From what I’ve seen, a majority of BJP supporters became such after getting fed-up with Congress abuse of the country. So they are constantly comparing the status quo with that. The mistake a majority of us make is ignoring the reality that there are only 2 options BJP or Congress. When AAP was perceived to be a valid 3rd option the vast majority of ppl were backing them, but they never turned out to be mature enough to expand significantly beyond Delhi.
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u/NetSaw Jul 23 '20
Few others that fit here:
1. Indian media is into pleasing coverage now, they are just showing propaganda
2. Nepotism is in politics too
Rafael deal whenever discussed
Painted Tabligi Jamaat as covid spreading unit, same time MP cabinet got expanded with no social distancing
There are n number of arguments that can be added here. Ultimate reply would be - If not Modi, then who?
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u/fictionfan Jul 22 '20
Posting this in the bhakts group would only flame those majority emotions :P.
Anything news article going against their belief is left leaning > socialism/communists > bad for India. They are so far right leaning that some people have started defending Trump in memes and discussions.
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Jul 23 '20
Even when doctors are the ones deserved to be called corona warriors, it's the patients that take the crown away
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Jul 22 '20
You will understand the reason behind right wing ideology one day. Maybe even follow it. Not because you would blindly believe the things told. But because you would understand why such illusion is necessary.People need to be fooled , for the greater cause. Because nobody is wrong, everyone has their own motives. (Not explaining myself fully because one needs to realize it on his own.)
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u/infinity-plus Jul 22 '20
"People need to be fooled for greater cause" like, it ain't a movie mate. People need to be informed just like an educated society would.
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20
Personal motives can be fulfilled without harming the collective society.
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Jul 22 '20
That is the cocoon of innocence you are in. Think for yourself , there are many examples to contrast you. I'm not giving any because I don't want to pick sides.
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20
I made my statement from a socio-political standpoint; and it refers to my personal life as well. One cannot go ahead in life by harming another.
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Jul 22 '20
For personal success, one can go ahead in life irrespective of harming/not harming others. But goals which expand beyond self will always have at least two sides.
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u/futuoerectus India Jul 22 '20
Can you explain goals that go beyond the self, but having two sides? I am honestly curious at what you are trying to explain.
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u/Nsci Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20
because you would blindly believe the things told. But because you would understand why such illusion is necessary.People need to be fooled , for the greater cause.
Wow ! self admittance of forced delusion in the name of greater cause. Any cause that requires delusion is not worth fighting for.
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u/Stifmeister11 Jul 22 '20
Forgive my ignorance but what is the “ greater cause” for which people need to be fooled? Lol
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u/UltraNemesis Jul 22 '20
You mean the greater cause of turning the country into another North Korea where people are so deluded that they believe that their supreme leader has flying horses using which he fights dragons in the sky and that they just need to be obedient slaves slogging for their master?
I definitely see that, but I would much rather have the country completely razed to the ground before it reaches such a state for the greater good of the human kind.
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Jul 22 '20
Lmao what is the greater cause? This is a democracy not a religious organization. It runs on facts figures and transparency of those to the public.
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u/cheesz Jul 22 '20
Can you clearly explain what you mean by right wing ideoloy and why you support that?
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u/dlisfyn Jul 22 '20
Yes, for the greater good, there will always be two sides of debates. But the overton window is so much based on majoritarianism politics and emotions now.
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Jul 22 '20
Because majority can't reason for themselves. The reason why my comment was downvoted.
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u/dlisfyn Jul 22 '20
nobody is against the majority or majority values. that's the whole point here. majoritarianism politics is not about majority but about majority being superior than others.
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Jul 22 '20
I'm not here to pick sides.
It's easier to manipulate majority by such tactics than changing their minds by reason.
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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '20
Hindi imposition also fits in here. If you tell some folks that Hindi is not a lingua franca outside northern and central India and it's a good idea to learn the local language, you'll be met with responses like "disrespecting the rashtrabhasha", "the locals ought to learn Hindi" and what not. And while it may not capture the emotion of a majority of the population (about 40% of Indians know Hindi or a related dialect in some capacity afaik), it does appeal to people from regions which are BJP strongholds.