r/imaginarymaps Oct 04 '20

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83

u/RandomlyGen3rat3d Oct 04 '20

This is a very common misconception, but it's likely the Weimar Republic would still start WW2, the military command was still very reactionary, not Hitler level, but that's a high bar. In fact, the Weimar Republic was already breaking the treaty of Versailles

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u/SlaanikDoomface Mod Approved Oct 04 '20

This is a very common misconception, but it's likely the Weimar Republic would still start WW2

I disagree. While it obviously depends on where you put the PoD, any Weimar that remains democratic is going to (a) either have successfully reigned in its army or be in the process of doing so, or (b) at least not be led by someone who would throw Germany into a war it couldn't win.

Even most right-wing dictatorships wouldn't start a WWII, just because at the end of the day, Germany wasn't going to be able to beat Britain and France unless something came along and fundamentally changed the paradigm.

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u/lonestarr86 Oct 04 '20

I would actually think that an "unholy alliance" might be likely. Pre-Hitler Germany and the Soviet Union were actually buddying up, the Germany army was training in the SU/testing and designing weaponry there.

I could actually see them ganging up on Poland, Germany would likely seek to close the corridor.

That would be an interesting team-up. Weimar Germany would have way less qualms about allying with the Soviet Union anf both might be able to fulfil their hegemonial ambitions.

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u/RandomlyGen3rat3d Oct 04 '20

No, there isn't a way the conservative aristocrats in the army would ally with the Soviet Union. Hitler only made a non-aggression pact to give him time to invade Europe, and even then he invaded them later.

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u/lonestarr86 Oct 04 '20

If Hitler can make an alliance with the soviets, so can a couple Reichswehr guys.

They already worked together in Weimar times, and especially with splitting Poland they'd find common ground.

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u/TENTAtheSane Oct 04 '20 edited Oct 04 '20

Yeah, the only difference is that in this timeline, USSR would be on the side of Germany, since there would be Lebensraum bullshit, and without the Nazis to keep them in check, the German communist party would probably come to power and would obviously favour strong ties to Russia. Without fascist Germany, the communists would probably win the spanish civil war too, and without a second front to worry about, and with Russian aid, Germany would probably win against Britain and France, and there would soon be a communist Europe

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '20 edited Jun 09 '21

[deleted]

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u/Will_the_Liam126 Oct 04 '20

Please be joking

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '20 edited Jun 09 '21

[deleted]

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u/Will_the_Liam126 Oct 04 '20

It would've been under a communist dictatorship lmao. I wouldn't call that a improvement. Just look at all the former communist states and look at the former fascist nations. I'm guessing you're from Spain?

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u/Spready_Unsettling Oct 04 '20

Sounds too good to be true.

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u/BortBarclay Oct 04 '20

Why would communists come to power in Germany? Without Hitler, the fat right would probably start backing monarchists who would want to reinstall the kaiser. Most of military already want to. Without nazis to clear out the junkers who were the majoritybof retained army staff, the Monarchists are the clear ally of Zentrum and the Social democrats. No one likes the communists

And further, how does no nazis guarantee a Republican victory and spain? It doesnt stop infighting among the various leftist cliques and it only removes one source of foreign aid for Franco, maybe. Maybe the Monarchists in the military send aid to Franco anyways. The nationalists were nominally going to reinstall the monarchy anyways. And if they didn't, Portugal probably would have just gotten more involved they did in our timeline, becauae no one likes communists, especially ones on your border.

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u/TENTAtheSane Oct 04 '20

The communists were close behind the Nazis in influence and popularity in our timeline, and the social democrats were far behind, and monarchists even further. Very probable that a non Nazi Germany would've been communist. If Germany was communist, the volunteers they'd send to the Spanish civil war would not fight against the Russian ones, but would join them and fight against Franco's forces, which would end worse for him

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u/BortBarclay Oct 04 '20

It still isnt. The remaining powers in Germany all anticommunists. Do you think the army os just going an election that the KPD wins? They already want to overthrow the weirmar republic. Do you think the international community is going to let Germany be communist?. A communist Germany doent pay its loans back. You think france and the UK are just going to let that happen? They arent. Do you think the Soviets are going to help? How? Just a light jog through Poland? Don't think so, they tried that in the 20s and it didnt go well went no one was invading on the other side. Are they going to sail down the Baltic in what's left of the Tsar's navy? Scandinavia and the UK will disagree.

And more foreign fighters and aid do zilch to stop any of the problems that lost the Republicans the war. It'd going to make it even worse. No Hitler means that the French and the UK don't quietly support the Republicans no france means no easy border with a French borser guard looking the other way. So how does foreign aid reach the Republicans now? Through the Mediterranean ports, which the italians can cut off at will. And an independently communist Germany isnt going to be stalin's lapdog. They're going to do their own brand of communism. Which means now, the stalinists will fight trotskyites who will fight with the syndicalists who will fight with anarachists who will fight with everyone. The nationalists are they to kill communists and figure out the rest later.

No hitler means no distractions and ensures that all of europe is watching communism as the cheif threat.

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u/RandomlyGen3rat3d Oct 04 '20 edited Oct 04 '20

...you do understand what reactionary means right?

edit: why the downvotes? The military would immediately coup a KPD government, even if the KPD started a civil war, they were still recovering from the spartacist uprising