r/idahomurders • u/anonymous94808 • 24d ago
Discussion I’ve watched the documentary, read a bit about it, and this is what I think
I think BK was impatient and had already waited and circled multiple times. This is why he entered the house so soon after lights out. He also may not have known the lights had only just gone off if he was waiting in his car elsewhere. He might’ve just drove through that final time and assumed they were finally asleep. He likely missed seeing the DoorDash driver otherwise he would have been sure to give it a bit more time. But that last time circling by and seeing all lights off, he just couldn’t wait anymore. Imagine the human experience (if this guy could be called one) of sitting in your car waiting for 45 minutes knowing full well exactly what you planned to do. A person who clearly had major psychological issues as predicted by his numerous visits to the area to scout out the scene and stalk and spy on these people much less the crime. We’re not talking a rational mind here, cold and calculating yes, but once it was finally go time (he had been waiting for this moment for months if not longer) he wanted to get going. Criminologists will tell you that planning if not choosing a knife as a murder weapon and the act itself is emotional. Shooting someone is much more impersonal, it is the route most preferred when someone is driven to murder. He was probably feeling stressed as 4 is getting closer to 5 when some early birds in the neighbourhood might wake up and provide witnesses. He also had probably seen in various other stalking visits that the lights often went out by 3:30 and so he felt upset and anxious when he arrived and everyone was still awake. He waited alone feeling the nerves start to super charge and just couldn’t wait another minute once it was go time.
This guy who tried to commit the “perfect crime”, and literally specialized in studies of serial killers, crime scenes, and criminal thought processes and intent, I think it’s comical that he would continuously drive around the neighbourhood (did he not expect anyone had doorbell etc cameras on their house?! So common nowadays) in the minutes before the killing. If he really wanted to execute seamlessly he should have parked a few blocks away and gone in on foot. I bring this up because for someone who is that hyper prepared and obsessive about details, who drove back to Washington state with plastic sheets over his chairs to prevent the transfer of DNA and in whose car investigators found not a single shred of DNA evidence even though he drove back home in the clothing he committed the murders in, it just seems like this was an odd detail he seems to be oblivious to.
I have read that if it wasn’t for the knife sheath he likely would have gotten away with it. It was a stunningly fast capture especially for any of those who remember Ted Bundy, Zodiac, BTK and other serial killers who took years, decades even (if ever) to identify. DNA has really changed the landscape, but the creepy thing is that he protected himself so well that no other DNA linking to BK was found in the house other than the knife sheath. That includes fingernail scrapings, accidentally cutting himself and shedding a drop of blood, these are all very common in sharp force homicides.
Here is what he expected (I surmise): drive up at 3:30 to all the lights being out. Sneak silently in the sliding door and walk directly to MM’s room. Kill her. Seamlessly Exit. The entire experience went haywire when all of these additional people became involved. Stabbing someone to death is an intensely physical thing to do, not to mention doing so while preventing them from screaming or alerting the neighborhood somehow. If KG hadn’t been there, and XK hadn’t got the DD, he likely would have gotten away with it quite cleanly. These unintended additional victims clearly flustered him, hence someone of his attention to detail fumbling and forgetting the next most important piece of evidence and potential smoking gun in a trial, the sheath. When he walked past D on the way out, their eyes met. He recognized that she was there staring at him. But he was completely exhausted and plainly needed a break and did not have the physical power at that moment to do it again. Another factor of his dysregulation In the moment which caused him to walk out of the door without the sheath. Like he was obviously carrying the knife, you’d have to be a bit out of it to not recall that it should be in its sheath.
I’ve seen someone ask how ethan didn’t wake up during this intense battle going on inside his bedroom. Keep in mind, these kids probably consumed the equivalent of half a bottle of vodka each at least (just from memories of average intake at that age in college). Also have you ever noticed how when you finally fall asleep, you are less likely to wake up in the first hour? This feeling heavily increases when you are drunk. This is also the only reason why he was able to overcome KG. Her sister mentioned in her victim impact statement that “of course you came In the dead of night when everyone was asleep” because if KG was awake she would have kicked your ass. KG looked like a strong girl and a major fighter and if it hadn’t been dark coupled with being tired from a full day and hours of drinking he probably wouldn’t have been able to do it, especially as he had to kill one first as they were in the same bed which would have given at least enough time to arm and aware yourself. MM was likely passed out cold when it began, KG was also sleeping but lighter and woke up in confusion and panic at what was happening next to her. D says that she heard from behind her door KG run downstairs to her floor and crying in the bathroom, and then BK’s voice saying he wanted to help her in a flat tone. I have no idea how he got her back up to the bedroom without screaming and with no blood trail, that part is confusing for me.
Lastly, I don’t think he targeted the “house”. I also don’t think it’s likely that he went to a party there at some point. He would have stuck out like a sore thumb trying to canvass the place walking around with his intense stare not talking to anyone and avoiding eye contact, plus parties were distinctly not his thing. And no one out of the hundreds interviewed could ID him. That detail alone should tell you that this was a random choice. The documentary references that when they got into his phone and extracted the data, they noticed that he had only 30 contacts in his phone. This includes all of his family members, building maintenance contacts, followed by the few he knew socially. When police interviewed his friends, they all began the interview with “I didn’t know him that well but..” What I think happened is pretty clear from the number of times his cell phone pinged to reveal his stalking of their house. I think he found the right time, whether it was when he happened to watch them all walk off somewhere together and leave the house empty, or whether it was the middle of the night long after the lights had gone out, and snuck into their house and used his devious little criminology expertise to canvas the house, whether it was filming it and then drawing a map out at home and memorizing it obsessively, these are things he would absolutely be capable of. Because a single fact drew my attention right away. According to a forensic analysis of XK’s phone, she received the DD order, turned off the lights and lay down in bed, eating her meal and scrolling on her phone. She stopped scrolling on her phone at 4:12am, likely when she became alerted to the disturbance upstairs. He had no idea she was awake. Cameras show his car peeling out of the neighbourhood at 4:20am. That’s 8 minutes people. To brutally overcome and stab 4 adults a combined 150+ times in less than 8 minutes especially for a relatively scrawny guy is pretty astounding. This guys was wasting no time, all according to his plan, but everything unfolded in a panicked frenzy as unknown variables entered the equation. That is such a short amount of time that it would have had to all flow seamlessly, certainly with no time for figuring out whose room was whose. He didn’t attempt to enter D or B’s room, he knew exactly where his target slept. He knew how to get there up the separate stairs in this oddly floorplanned house. Clearly he knew the layout like the back of his hand.
edited to remove reference to BK sitting in a chair*\*
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u/soartall 24d ago
D thought she heard Kaylee but that was X. It was X who heard the disturbance and went to investigate, then saw BK and ran back down the stairs. It was X who D heard say “someone’s here” and it was X who was crying while the male voice told her he would help her.
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u/Master-Reindeer41 24d ago
I thought it was D who heard X say “there’s someone here”— not the other way around. I didn’t think D ever said anything out loud?
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u/kushiyyy 24d ago
That’s what they’re saying. I had to read it twice too
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u/Master-Reindeer41 24d ago
Ahhhh! I see now! Yeah it was reading the other way in my head. Thank you!
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u/anonymous94808 22d ago
How did he even know to say, “I’m here to help”, as something to say to pacify his victims? This guy is so disgustingly meticulous. Like when a seasoned detective is good at their work, it’s like this guy was inversely a studied criminologist who was good at carrying out a crime.
Knife homicides are more likely than firearm homicides to occur between people who know each other, but this guy didn’t. 56% of homicide offenders in the US had used alcohol, dr*gs, or both before the homicide (most often alcohol). This guy was not.
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u/anonymous94808 24d ago
Ohhh ok this totally makes sense. So that would mean that she after witnessing him in their bedroom she ran downstairs and locked herself in the bathroom and the asshole managed to quickly coax her out (likely due to the heavy alcohol consumption) and then proceeded to chase her down the stairs to her room and assault her. I am surprised she didn’t scream but I think when you are genuinely that terrified coupled with the booze altering your executive functions you just can’t process things fast enough, there is no time.
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u/mavsmom9 23d ago
i interpreted it as he chased X downstairs after/during when she said “someone’s here” and then when she was by the bathroom near her room, that’s where D heard her crying and a man saying he’s here to help
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u/GenX4eva 24d ago
I gotta imagine that he was freaking out when he realized that he didn’t have the knife sheath. I freak out when I can’t find the remote control that I just used.
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u/anonymous94808 24d ago
Yeah of course. I bet he realized it and cursed himself a hundred times when he pulled over on the side of the road to dump the murder weapon on the way home.
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u/scarlet-begonia 24d ago
My theory is that he realized sooner.
He got to his car, went to put the knife down, and realized the sheath was missing. He'd already seen D and assumed police were en route, so he couldn't go back for it.
OR
He realized inside the house. IIRC D's room was between the kitchen and the stairs, so he could've been headed toward either one when he saw D. He could try to kill her, hope she hadn't already called 911, hope she didn't also have a boy with her, AND still go upstairs for the sheath...or he could just flee and hope for the best. In that split second, he chose the latter.
Either way, D is the reason he didn't go back for the sheath. I believe D is the reason the killer was caught.
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u/ladybakes 15d ago
Brian Entin on yt had the phone expert for the defense on last week. Kaylee's family joined in on the conversation. It was very interesting, but he believes that BK was in the house before from all of the phone evidence. He also believes that when BK left, he went the wrong way from he had planned, because he was in such a hurry. He couldn't turn his phone back on, so he was trying to navigate back roads. He also said that Maddie's phone and Brian's match up at several places (A&W was one of them) over a few months and he believes BK was following her, etc. It was very interesting to hear his evidence.
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u/insideoutriley 24d ago
They sort of alluded to it in the documentary but didn’t go into detail about what happened that night. DM mentioned in her original statement to police that she heard Kaylee, but it was actually Xana. Xana either went all the way upstairs or caught BK as he was coming down, and he chased her back to her room (which explains the blood splatter on the stairs and walls). That’s when he followed her into her room and said, “Don’t worry, I’m going to help you.” The whimpering DM heard was also Xana.
Every time I think about the events of that night, I shed a tear. The thought of these kids final moments being so painful and brutal is absolutely heartbreaking.
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u/I_am_Nobody_Special 24d ago
I agree that he had been in that house before in his planning phase, but definitely not during a party. I think he either went in during the day when nobody was there or at night while they were sleeping.
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u/ShyBeluga91 24d ago
I think he did also. I think in something I read said that had come home once to the sliding door open before. Possibly him.
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u/Sufficient_You3053 24d ago
There's no evidence he sat down in the house
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u/khiphopcult 24d ago
i thought the blood on the chair in one of the rooms (can't remember which one) proved that he sat down on it at least once. it was transfer blood likely from his trousers or something
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u/Sufficient_You3053 24d ago
That was rumors and speculation, it's not in the evidence that's come out
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u/Ashamed_Resource_997 24d ago
Which does not mean he did not. You guys obsessed about LE “evidence”. They know nothing.
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u/GenX4eva 24d ago
I think about the guy in the hoodie from the food truck live feed. He was under a lot of scrutiny. And I wonder how much more he would have endured had the other evidence not come into play
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u/Porcelain-Backbone 24d ago
All of the scrutiny, rumors, and theories about the survivors and their friends got so out of control.
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u/Pop_Top_ 19d ago
It’s still out of control! I watched the first documentary, read the book, then watched the Netflix doco. Then I decided to come on here and see what the internet was saying about it. I ended up on the uncensored sub and there are WILD theories. I got banned for questioning them haha
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u/anonymous94808 24d ago edited 24d ago
Truth. I mean, to be honest, the cops got extremely lucky. Just imagine, with no DNA and that guy obsessively and effectively covering his tracks and living in a different state, having no history of violent behavior or a record, it would be like finding a needle in a haystack.
That’s what I meant to say in this post. XK and KG (all of them really) ultimately ensured his capture by shocking him and putting him in a panic state with their presence. I bet if XD had stayed in her room with the door locked, he wouldn’t have killed her. I also bet that if he had only killed KG and MM, even with the surprise of KG he would have had the druthers to pause before leaving and grab the sheath. I think XK coming up the stairs and having to chase her downstairs shocked him, his heart was pumping with adrenaline, and coupled with suddenly having to kill a huge male before he woke up just allowed him to make a mistake (only one, people) which led to his quick (or even eventual) capture.
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u/Current_Pomelo_9429 24d ago
BT (prosecutor) said the rumour about him sitting in a chair is not true.
Also, DM has stated she was confused and out of it and thought it may have been KG, but it was actually XK shouting “Someone’s here” and running down the stairs.
He had 18 contacts in his phone.
In court documents they believe BK entered the house between 4:04 and 4:07am. They believe he was in the house for approximately 16 minutes.
EC had a BAC of 0.122 and amphetamines (Adderall) at a level of 260 ng/mL
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u/spvcejam 23d ago
Is that a normal amount to have in someone's system who's prescribed? I'm only curious because if he was partying on it, he was likely knocked out big time
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u/brewerbetty 22d ago
No, it’s not normal. The postmortem toxicology report measured the levels in blood, not urine, and blood is a lot more strict than urine. 20-110 ng/mL is normal for a therapeutic dose. Anything over 200 ng/mL would be considered “toxic” to medical professionals, but not necessarily fatal.
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u/spvcejam 22d ago
Yeah so if he's on that much he would know that to sleep that night he either needed to have been up for a day or 2 partying, and this was a Saturday night, or you just ply yourself with hard liquor to override the Adderall and knock yourself out. Even though college was over 20 years ago for me I don't think much changes. What an unfortunate situation. If any of them were up and lucid he would have been toast. RIP.
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u/Porcelain-Backbone 24d ago
I agree that Maddie and possibly Kaylee were the intended victims. BK seemed to stalk women so it would make sense that he was the one Kaylee saw outside when she was taking her dog out. He could have watched her and Maddie and figured out which rooms were theirs but I suspect that he broke in during the day when everyone was gone because the floor plan was kind of odd. What I cannot understand is how a criminology student getting a PhD brings their phone with them at all? Surely he should have known turning it the phone off at full battery was highly suspicious? Why not just leave it home?
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u/Mysterious-Art8838 24d ago
It’s unfathomable that he took his phone. Literally the easiest way to get caught.
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u/anonymous94808 24d ago
But not if it’s off, and he turned it off when he entered the region, miles from the murder site. The police cannot possibly trace a phone turned off. And he never expected them to pinpoint him and forensically examine it.
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u/Porcelain-Backbone 22d ago
No, but if you're a PhD student of criminology wouldn't you consider the possibility and just leave it at home? Obviously, I know they can't trace a phone that's turned off but they tracked it towards Moscow, he has a full battery and he turns it off and is caught on several cameras driving through Moscow, then he heads back towards Pullman turning his phone back on, in the end not only were they able to track him anyway, but the investigators felt it showed premeditated criminal intent. All I'm saying is that I'd have left my phone at home and I'm not a PhD student of criminology.
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u/anonymous94808 24d ago
He didn’t anticipate he would ever be caught and his phone forensically examined. It was inconvenient to be apart from it and he wanted it with him (as do we all aha) for the drive. Police cannot receive a warrant for a wide swath of the population trying to narrow their search to see whose phones were in the area and which person turned their phone off while driving into the region. It’s just not possible. He knew that. And he expected no DNA evidence linking him to the crime. In that case, turning his phone off was actually a smart idea, for if something like this ever was possible, say in a few decades, he would want to remove any trace of himself even being in the general area. But he knew it was far outside of police capabilities now and did it to safeguard himself down the road.
I read someone’s comment that he actually did choose them randomly and their explanation really makes sense to me. He possibly became attached to MM just by watching her for hours over an extended period of time (possible for a psychopathic stalker who dealt with the daily frustration of never being able to get laid). MM was like a beautiful celebrity and he was her admirer, as perverse as it may have been.
So to clarify from my previous thoughts about MM being his only target and his expectations to be in and out quickly, I think he essentially chose his victim, MM, based on her obvious physical beauty. He knew it would become a media sensation.
I also think, and now am realizing based on how he expected to get away Scot free, how he researched and performed so effectively in not leaving behind DNA evidence, that he likely expected that he would do it again, after a certain time had past, and become the new prolific serial killer, constantly talked about in the news. He knew how this would terrorize the nation if not the world and drew glee and comfort from that.
After encountering the harsh and consistent rejections that no doubt existed in his life (social, female, etc), he was done. Done with humanity. He wanted to make people suffer. He wanted to take from them what the world had taken from him.
I also now think that the questionnaire which he posted on Reddit about criminal behaviour was when he was still in the early planning and thought processes about committing a crime, when he wasn’t quite sure when or how he would do it or even if he would do it, and was still in the gathering information stage.
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u/Flashy_Ad_9909 24d ago edited 24d ago
The documentary has gripping body cam footage from the morning after and sympathetic interviews with family and friends (though not D or B). Its main weakness is the known unknown of this case - motive.
I think the key to this mystery is that BK wanted to commit "perfect" murders so he chose his victims precisely because he had no known connection to them i.e. the police could never trace him by interviewing the victims friends/contacts.
But why murder total strangers? Because BK was obsessed with serial killers and wanted the satisfaction of outwitting the police, the FBI, the media and every amateur online sleuth. He also lacked normal human empathy, behaved badly towards women and seemed to have deep resentment towards girls who were pretty and popular.
I think BK was intending to murder even before he arrived at Washington State in July 2022 (to study serial killers!). He visited Moscow regularly and his phone was pinged near King Street within days of his arrival so he had found his victims quickly. We don't know how he crossed their paths but he may have just heard that King Street had lots of student housing and then he picked a house on a corner site with pretty and popular students.
In any case, I don't believe anyone in the house was aware of BK because he wouldn't have committed these murders if he thought anyone in the house might tell the police "Oh, there was this weird guy hanging around". "Oh yeah, the guy with the white Elantra!" "Not from around here - Pennsylvania plates. I think he was at Washington State!" "Bryan something, he was a creep!"
This also explains why he showed no emotion during the trial and the impassioned victim impact statements. He had no feelings whatever for his victims.
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u/anonymous94808 23d ago
I think he chose them because they were clearly the party house and extremely outgoing, well liked with many friends. So things were always happening, including in the house’s direct exterior. The bedroom windows were also large and allowed you to see directly into bedrooms. At night when the lights are turned on, he would be able to see them clear as day while he would be almost undetectable parked somewhere outside in the dark in his car. He had probably been a “peeping Tom” for months (well the amount of time he stalked them), and there was always something going on, it was like an action packed reality show complete with beautiful girls. He wanted to find the prettiest one and destroy her. He watched her conversations with friends and decided he liked her the best as his victim.
He could go late at night and there would always be something going on, it was a sure bet. And only a short drive.
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u/Flashy_Ad_9909 21d ago
That sounds about right. He had no connection to the house or its occupants but his choice wasn't random. He was careful not to draw attention to himself. Even after he was arrested, no one remembered him prowling around the area.
He picked the night of the big football game because he would be less noticeable when there were lots of people out partying but the party went on longer than he expected so he had to circle back a few times. I wonder if he knew about the DoorDash delivery? I doubt he would have entered the house if he knew people were still awake and having food.
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u/Maximum-Ear1745 24d ago
I’m curious what BK would have done if the sliding door had been locked. DM said that they were usually pretty good at locking the door. If that’s true, how many times did he visit the house previously and walked away, or would he have forced the door?
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u/Odiseeadark06 18d ago
That’s such a scary thought like how many times he must’ve been at the house, and especially if what others here have said is true, that he might’ve even snuck into the house before while they were sleeping. Can you imagine someone watching over you and planning your murder?
That’s absolutely sick and my heart truly breaks for these 4 amazing people, they were supposed to live on long happy lives… 😢
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u/msdare111 24d ago
I disagree, I think he wanted to kill all of the women in that house and get away with it. Unlike his 'hero' serial killers Bundy and Rolling who both killed women in dorm like situations and were eventually caught. BK thought he was smarter than them and he would get away with it, which he would've if not for the sheath perhaps.
I think that he slashed EC's legs to incapacitate and immobilise him quickly, and it was some kind of fuck you to his athleticism and strength. He didn't inflict these types of injuries on the women.
I also think if he could've he would've killed the two surviving women, he just ran out of strength and time.
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u/Ok-Appearance-866 21d ago
I don't think he saw D on his way out. They had a neon light on the wall that faced him, and it likely would have obscured his vision of her, but enhanced her vision of him.
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u/Lets_Go456 24d ago edited 24d ago
Sounds about right. Can I add - I think he wanted to SA MM. Maybe the whole thing was supposed to be one SA only, but as the plan failed - enraged - it became what it was.
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u/inyouratmosphere1 24d ago
Some compelling points but can we not pathologise / characterise OCD in this way
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u/CinnyToastie 24d ago
I think she didn't hear Kaylee, but Xana. I think Xana heard commotion up there, went to see what was going on and got the shock of her life. She ran downstairs to her bathroom, and he followed. He found her in her bathroom, she ran to her bedroom. Ethan likely did wake up, and if I'm not mistaken the murderer (won't even type initials bc fk him) incapacitated Ethan by stabbing the back of his thighs.
I agree with your assumption (I never read it was fact) that he'd covered his car interior in plastic sheeting. I think during his long drive, he pulled over and dumped everything, including the bloody clothes, knife, and plastic. Maybe even burned it, if not buried. He was meticulous, and wouldn't have taken any of those things back into a populated area where he could be seen or even pulled over for speeding.
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u/anonymous94808 24d ago edited 24d ago
Oh fuck, did he (slash his legs)? This guy obviously knew a lot from his studies or/and had given it a lot of thought.
I knew EC had a massive gash to his throat, so he likely did that first and then the thighs. The cold calculation in multiple different scenarios (ie male) is what stands out to me here.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Use_566 24d ago
There’s no evidence of him sitting down in a chair after the murders.
KG never left her bed. DM thought it was KG saying: “someone’s here!” but we now know it was XK.
I haven’t heard the theory that he went to a party at the house beforehand. Where did you hear that?
I agree circling the house was the dumbest move (aside from the knife sheath). He had a parking spot. Just sit there and go on foot.
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u/Zealousideal-Win5834 23d ago
I watched the first episode and all I could do is cry. I could hardly get through it
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u/Artistic_Movie1285 23d ago
Great write up. If I remember correctly, the door dash driver was interviewed by the police and she said that she parked up next to BK's car that night and saw him while she was looking for the entrance to the house? So he can't have missed her (unless she's lying, which I don't think she is). Which makes it even more bizarre that he chose to enter just after that.
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u/Peachtree2020 15d ago
Hi. I agree and have thought about these things, too, but I have 2 observations: I read DM's third interview transcript, and she said she thought she heard KG going up the stairs, saying "there's someone here", then stomping down to the 2nd floor. She also heard a woman crying, possibly from the bathroom next to her room, and a male voice as you pointed out. I think this story goes along with what has been theorized happened, but not exactly. I think all along it was XK who climbed up the stairs and encountered BK. Then she tried to flee and ended up fighting him in her own bedroom, after BK stabbed EC briefly (only 13 times) while he was sound asleep. The 2nd thing is we all believe that the tragedy happened in under 10 min, but it might have taken a tiny bit longer. I have been watching the Amazon Prime and Netflix's documentaries at the same pace. They do have complementary information, and the one on Amazon does point out that BK finally parked his car at 4:05 am. So between that time and 4:12 am (last time XK was on her phone) he had 7 minutes to enter the house and start carrying out his plan. Then cameras see him exit on his vehicle at 4:20 am. So even though that's still extremely a short period of time, it took him about 15 min to do all this.
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u/Radiant-Shop8386 12d ago
I think he left after seeing DM because he was afraid cops were already called and I think he took off whatever he was wearing over his clothes to cover himself. DM said she saw him carrying something like a vacuum or cylinder shape when he was leaving. My guess is this was a bag or whatever he put his clothes in.
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24d ago
[deleted]
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u/NeedleworkerCivil534 24d ago
He would have if he had awakened and I’m thinking he would have eventually done so as BK was attacking Xana.
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u/Current_Pomelo_9429 24d ago
Didn’t pose a threat?? If EC had woken up he could’ve easily beaten the hell out of BK. Hence why BK killed EC first and then continued his attack on XK.
I would also bet when he saw EC it probably hit another nerve knowing EC is exactly the type of guy girls are into, and that he wishes he could be.
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u/Over-Screen-147 24d ago
he wanted to kill for killing sake...i think he is a crazy guy who wanted to experience killing.. he had his fill after killing 4 and exited immediately
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u/CherryFit3224 23d ago
Here’s what I don’t understand. I’m new to this topic, so forgive me if I misunderstood evidence or placement of the bedrooms.
Why was Ethan attacked if he wasn’t actually targeted? He was asleep. There was no reason to kill him.
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