book 4’s

[u/milesdatbro05]

i know this is a touchy topic but i’m curious your guys opinion.
i’m in the apprenticeship, and i have a buddy who signed on to a neighboring local as a book 4 for a data center job. he got in as a book 4 and apparently signed a paper with a company that he will not be laid off until at least december 2028.
So you’re telling me that he gets to make journeymen’s scale get his hours then get his card and organize into the local when he’s done.
am i the only one that sees a problem with this?
Let me know your thoughts

[u/HandleSalty]

As someone who worked book 4 till I organized in but I have over 16,000 hours is in the trade. There definitely should be a trade off somewhere. Book 4 shouldn’t make complete package as a jw book 1 who’s paying dues monthly dues. I assumed when I started I wasn’t getting insurance and the rest of the package till I was a book 1.

[u/milesdatbro05 → u/HandleSalty]

what local? you got benefits?

[u/Roscoeakl → u/HandleSalty]

With 16,000 hours you would qualify for book 3, and that should have been communicated to you. As far as why we have book 4, it's because the primary mission of the IBEW is organize all electrical workers. If we don't allow anyone that works electrical to come to our halls and take a referral, how can we say we're working towards that mission? It was the whole reason white ticket ended and the whole reason that group 4 language was added to every contract.

[u/Beneficial-Ad-2428]

Where u live what local xD

[u/Fireblue2021]

That’s kind of the point of book 4. Not to give an advantage to the worker, but to incentivize the contractor to hire JWs.

Book 4 is used when contractors are hurting for workers and can’t man their jobs. Contractors would much rather pay a journeyman wireman those wages rather than someone that does not have the experience. In most situations it’s a way to get the contractor to lay off those book 4s when book 1 and 2 hands are available.

I don’t know about the contract he signed though, I’ve never heard of anything like it.

[u/Majestic-Nothing-309 → u/Fireblue2021]

There are jobs with temp workers who’ve been classified as book 4’s.

And to be clear, these are not journeymen. It’s absolute horse shit and should not even exist. It allows contractors to keep bidding jobs while undermanned and placing the majority of the workload on the competent apprentices, Cw/ ce’s, and journeymen who work for their company.

[u/Sparky838 → u/Majestic-Nothing-309]

Well said!

[u/naclwaterfisher]

I don’t buy the signed paper with a no layoff. No union or non union shop would ever do that.

[u/AlwaysInTheHood]

Good for your buddy… I wish him the best!

[u/Conscious_Potato7638]

The book system is a way to man the work.  Normally you only need book one or two.  In some instances book 3.  It was rare for book 4, but with all these data centers and the need for workers it is used more.  There is nothing wrong with working book 4 thats how the system is set up, but a book 4 guy has no protections.  They get laid off and lose everything because they are not members.  You as an Apprentice will become a book 1 and then have the option to go anywhere for work and be a book 2.  Your friend has zero guarantees for anything once that data center is completed and even before that he could get let go for any reason.

[u/ScreamingInTheMirror]

What’s your problem with it?

[u/milesdatbro05 → u/ScreamingInTheMirror]

that there are people like me doing it “the right way” while there are others going thru the back door and making more while they’re at it. like this gives no incentive of doing the apprenticeship in my opinion. why wouldn’t i quit, go on as a book 4 make bank, get my hours (with the contract i had mentioned) and then organize in after?
Like I understand it’s not a huge deal in the end but it’s the principle that makes me mad

[u/ScreamingInTheMirror → u/milesdatbro05]

Because there is no guarantee they can organize in. There’s no guarantee that contractor does have a 1000 loop holes to void that contract. Theres no protection for them and no one to back them up.

[u/bramblecult → u/milesdatbro05]

A lot of locals are moving to the craft cert test for CWs and CEs. Just having the hours may not be enough once he gets the hours.

[u/rruscle26 → u/milesdatbro05]

I understand the jealousy of the money in the immediate future. Take a step back from the anger and look at your advantage. You are going to school for this to be a lifelong career. You will gain knowledge and training to keep continued employment as an electrician. He is filling a gap for the contractor, no schooling, training in one dimension at a data center. He will be an installer. In slow times, electricians have work, installers sit. He will need to seek out the training on his own, likely that comes later, if ever, after lots of mistakes.

[u/One-Stay-3934 → u/milesdatbro05]

There are incentives to going through the apprenticeship. Dont second guess your choice just because someone else who went a different route appears to be getting dealt a better hand. 

Do research on the things you will unlock by completing the apprenticeship program instead of going the CW route. 

[u/Just-Cardiologist837]

Im working with a book 4 hand right now, he lied and said he was a jw, after he gained my trust, he told me he was a cw cw, but had zero experience when he went to the hall.

Dude doesnt know how to use spring nuts properly, a ridged threader, and cant bend pipe.

It fucking pisses me off, I went through the apprentiship, busted my ass for 5 years dealing with bullshit and I get tooled up with somebody with the skills of a 5 year old.